WAKA

it's funny, the one time I can think of a rapper basically being called a poor man's slick rick was this piece about eminem in a greg tate-edited anthology. And Rick definitely doesn't get enough credit for the whole "little voices cheering him on in the background" thing.

huh? I'm responding to "snoop didnt become a universal icon right away" by saying "yes he did"

in case its not clear, the ppl who were criticizing snoop's flow were coming from w/in hip hop & were not dudes writing about him for EW dude

huh? I'm responding to "snoop didnt become a universal icon right away" by saying "yes he did"

― Brick Frog! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:34 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

by talking abt young people. im talking about 'old heads' who were much more conflicted, and yeah many questioned his 'skills' & argued he was just getting by on charisma

can you name one already?

like, of course i dont think xgau questioned his skills -- because xgau didnt care about skills!! why would he be questioning them

i don't even don't believe you, deej. dude covered slick rick, it'd be the easiest thing in the world for someone to say "you're no slick rick". I'm just waiting for a link or something to someone saying he had no skills

can you name one already?

― da croupier, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:35 PM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

maybe if i didnt spend all my time dealing with whiney's inability to avoid lobbing lame ad hominems

xp i don't follow your logic. presuming that conflict was there, how does "appealing to a small subset of devotees" = "becoming a universal icon"?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CEFDB133DF932A15752C1A965958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

There are rappers with greater rhythmic flexibility and tonal dynamism than Snoop, but where newness is the virtue, Snoop matters, because his vocal approach is, in every sense, fresh. "Snoop ain't the dopest," says Jermaine Dupri, the producer of the platinum-selling rap group Kris Kross, "but he's king right now."

and honestly "mouth full of fruit by the foot" is pretty classic, even if it is button pushing

xp i don't follow your logic. presuming that conflict was there, how does "appealing to a small subset of devotees" = "becoming a universal icon"?

― Brick Frog! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:38 PM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

he wasnt hanging out on the couch with david letterman in 1993. he was on trial for murder. is this not clear? theres a diff between 'fo rizzle shizzle!' snoop & the snoop who made 'aint no fun'?

http://i51.tinypic.com/ocpjo.png

um...next sentence of the nyt

Snoop's vocal style is part of what distinguishes him...

toure also wrote the RS rave quoted upthread where he talks about his amazing lyrical feats, iirc

"It's a basic conversation," Snoop says of his style. "I don't rap, I just talk."

reminiscent of big tymers "we're not rappers we're game spitters" when ppl would call them on their technical skill

im not saying this was the PREDOMINANT attitude -- but it was a strain of thought out there, that he wasnt a technical rapper, he was the reason the west coast was 'stupider' than the east at the time, the reason it was seen less 'seriously.'

"Snoop ain't the dopest," says Jermaine Dupri, the producer of the platinum-selling rap group Kris Kross

Snoop's vocal style is part of what distinguishes him...

toure also wrote the RS rave quoted upthread where he talks about his amazing lyrical feats, iirc

― da croupier, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:41 PM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

because that was toure's opinion. he was quoting dupri

and of course his vocals distinguished him -- my point was that ppl said he was a 'cipher' in terms of rapping ability, not in terms of charisma

xp if you're arguing that people need to be aware that snoop was not always as broad spectrum media friendly as he is now, sure, obviously. But "universal icon" in my mind means that he was utterly embraced by the general listening public. Doggystyle went platinum five times. that's pretty universal

anyway, i'm outta this; sorry i got involved

ha that pic whiney posted is exactly what i mean!! 'its not what hes saying its how he says it' kind of backhanded praise. 'well, he has style anyway' was a huge meme abt his rapping & the flip of that, esp for a lot of ny rap traditionalists, was that he wasnt much of a rapper

xp if you're arguing that people need to be aware that snoop was not always as broad spectrum media friendly as he is now, sure, obviously. But "universal icon" in my mind means that he was utterly embraced by the general listening public. Doggystyle went platinum five times. that's pretty universal

― Brick Frog! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:43 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah but, although whiney still hasnt figured this out, record sales are meaningless measures of popularity any more so its hard to say that waka isnt a rising artist too
not that i think hes as big as snoop -- only 50 has really rivaled that afaik -- but hes definitely one of the biggest rappers NATIONALLY

kinda surprised JD was willing to go there in 1993

xpost ok now we're into some weird semantics about what's "vocal charisma" and what's "vocal skills". Again, people thought Snoop was unique across the board, not seeing that in the discussion of Waka outside a small subset of pfork rap dudes

see, i get that christgau understands that sometimes charisma is just as important / more important than 'skills,' and i agree, partic in waka's case. my only point in bringing up the parallel was saying how there are similarly goofy criticisms of waka today, which is why the parallel works so well imo

xpost ok now we're into some weird semantics about what's "vocal charisma" and what's "vocal skills". Again, people thought Snoop was unique across the board, not seeing that in the discussion of Waka outside a small subset of pfork rap dudes

― da croupier, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:45 PM (57 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

have you ever read a discussion of rap music that wasnt by pfork rap dudes

um the 'weird semantics of vocal charisma vs vocal skills' is exactly what this has always been about -- this is a huge thing w/ the discourse around rap. check any rap message board, comments section, whatever

about waka? yeah, when i was googling to find out who the hell thought he was unique (answer: pitchfork rap dudes)

me trolling deej >>>> deej trolling da croup

any of my friends (by which whiney apparently reads into 'multi culti chicago friends') who i talk about rap w/ who DONT read criticism bring that element of rockism into discussions all the time. i.e. "i listen to waka to get buck but hes not all that as a rapper" personality is often downplayed in favor of 'skills' to huge subsets of rap fans & my point was this is nothing new

can't we just have one thread that doesn't get ruined by bullshit semantic "arguments" like this

i thought waka had brought us all together

me trolling deej >>>> deej trolling da croup

― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:48 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you 'trolling' me is corny because you really think accusing me of playing sports is 'getting at me'

if anyone's trolling here i figured it'd be considered me, this seems like ringtone cru territory through and through, got a guy telling me to read more rap comments pages

about waka? yeah, when i was googling to find out who the hell thought he was unique (answer: pitchfork rap dudes)

― da croupier, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:47 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

these are not 'pfork rap dudes.' what boards are you reading? read sohh, read okayplayer (ESPECIALLY okayplayer) read any other rap board you can find. its not a 'pfork thing' its a rap nerd thing

anyhow i'll agree to disagree about waka being as unique a flower as snoop until toure teaches me otherwise

about waka?
― da croupier, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 9:47 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and about snoop! ergo dupri saying hes not the best dude out there but he is the freshest

anyway youre shitty style of goalpost shifting arguments & your tin ear for rap discourse that you entirely filter through 'pfork rap dudes' is maintained so better stop now

by which whiney apparently reads into 'multi culti chicago friends'

you know, honestly, the point is no one on this board wants to hear about what your fucking IRL friends say ever. You always bring their opinions out in this condescending way like they are "real honest-to-god rap fans" compared to us myopic internet posters, and i honestly don't know if that means "black" or "young" or "listens to mixtapes" or "doesn't read pitchfork" but it's pretty much your most tiresome argument and you need to retire it

take this bullshit to email or a fucking snoop dogg thread, christ

it is a useful rhetorical tool dude -- 'irl people who dont care about criticism but like rap' -- why is that a hard thing to understand? why do you require demographic data for that to make sense to you?

the point is to pierce the fucking critic nerd bubble you exist in almost entirely whiney

croupier's rhetorical trick of arguing w/ someone by getting at every semantic point until they can explain in intricate detail, then pretending he was just 'trolling' the whole time, is hella frustrating btw

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/052/812/original/Deal_with_it_dog_gif.gif?1275684729

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs169.snc3/19662_530303565673_43201281_31460544_3139433_n.jpg

haha was gonna say "never said i was trolling, just admitted i was the stranger in a strange land what with my lack of knowledge of okayplayer boards and IRL rap loving friends and therefore probably the troller by default"

but I like what the dog said more.

guys they are rescuing miners in Chile, surely it would be more fun to watch that than argue about whether people in hip-hop secretly hated Snoop

dude is wearing sunglasses at night, because he's been in a cave for a month

are u sure it isnt bcuz of his smoothness & charisma

that too

his seven year old son was bawling and giving him a huge hug, it was pretty cool

BAWL! BAWL! BAWL! BAWL!

HUG! HUG! HUG! HUG~~!

would be nice not to have to scroll through 910 deej-whiney feud posts in every rap thread.