WAKA

otm but i still just don't see who runs out like "i gotta have wale on my track!" unless they're like charles hamilton or something xxp

really? p much all i remember minus delores tucker stuff is ppl been blown away by this new drawl flow

― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:25 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

people who were our ages back then. but read any pieces about it & its like, poor man's slick rick & all that

i forget what it was i read recently that made me realize ppl used to think snoop was kind of a cipher ill see if i can find it

people definitely had the usual gangsta rap content issues ("it aint no fun if the homies can't have none" didn't help) but the rolling stone/ew reviews definitely compliment his skills

wow really? i'd like to see the link because i thought snoop was so charismatic from the moment i saw the deep cover video

i'm not knocking waka for being morally negative, the breathless nihilism is really the album's strength.

thing about Doggystyle was that despite the grim subject partner the album felt like a party (perhaps sans "Serial Killa" and "For All My..."). it became easy to forget that the lyrics were about yer typical gangsterisms.

i don't remember the critical tide really turning against the west coast until like, the dogg pound

"Doggystyle is filled with verbal and vocal feats that meet its three-mile-high expectations." - Rolling Stone

"Snoop's nasal voice swings from playful, sing-songy rhythms to steely-cold toughness, never losing its slinky personality-he's a hustler with charm to burn." - Entertainment Weekly

"His relaxed vocal style is a perfect match for Dr. Dre's bass-heavy producing. The songs on this album are built around '70s-style funk grooves; Snoop's voice is lithe enough to snake its way around the big beats." - Time

important to also remember gangsta rap wasn't really that old yet in 1993, world wasn't as tired of it and white people weren't as rampantly lampooning it....

spin gave waka 7/10 fwiw i dont think big-mag critics are particularly trashing this one either

i mean obviously the appeal is different -- it wouldnt make sense to call waka 'lithe'

so who did call snoop a poor man's slick rick?

i dont know i cant really look right now @ work but ive absolutely read ppl - esp older rap critics -- arguing he wasnt really all that great, poor man's slick rick / big daddy kane, whatever. i know oliver wang gave chronic & i think also? doggystyle negative reviews at the time

I read one review of Doggystyle who complained of Snoop Dogg's lyrical limitations, but I can't remember what mag it was

I mean obviously Snoop was responding to someone when he said "Beats? So that's what makes me now?" on Doggfather (ie, guessing the people who suggested Dre carried most of the load on Doggystyle)

Wang seems mostly ok with him in Classic material: The Hip-Hop Album Guide, dude started writing in 1994 according to his online bio but I dunno what for.

xpost yeah obv he was dissing dre on the album released after dre acrimoniously left death row but before he did, but the idea that Snoop was seen as some worthless hanger-on wasn't a popular one by any means.

Even xgau, who hates West Coast rap, admitted Snoop's ability to "enunciate while drawling" was unique

i def hated The Chronic in 1992, btw. But I was a teenager not a rock critic

Snoop was the first 'gangsta' rapper I ever listened to, and the first artist whose music my mom refused to buy for me.

I remember turning on MTV or listening to the local urban station, hoping one of his tracks would come on. remember being ecstatic the first time I saw Doggy Dogg World's video--was home sick from school, and that vid made my day.

xpost yeah obv he was dissing dre on the album released after dre acrimoniously left death row but before he did, but the idea that Snoop was seen as some worthless hanger-on wasn't a popular one by any means.

― da croupier, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 18:08 (28 minutes ago)

i never said anyone saw him this way? i just compared him to how waka's been received as a rapper

and, imo, its comparable

oliver wang has famously realized the error of his ways re: dre/snoop, btw -- classic material only came out a few years ago!! of course everyone recognizes classic status of those records NOW

sorry, I took this (snoop was a cipher, morally negative, no human complexity, beats were the best thing about it, etc etc etc) to suggest that he was worthless and dependent on the beats to succeed.

xpost where did wang write about the chronic originally for? his bio says he started in 1994, so it couldn't have been too high-profile if it was of the moment.

i dont know -- maybe it was doggystyle not chronic -- it was one of those two records. but i cant google around for this kind of stuff at work

"sorry, I took this (snoop was a cipher, morally negative, no human complexity, beats were the best thing about it, etc etc etc) to suggest that he was worthless and dependent on the beats to succeed."

it more suggests they thought he was derivitive without offering 'substance' which is more along the lines of what has been said abt waka

first albums are always like that!

particularly in gangster rap

which is kinda why the snoop comparison feels arbitrary - I mean if critics are praising Waka for his unique flow then it makes sense, cuz that was Snoop's saving grace from the get-go.

so are you disagreeing just to disagree then, and hoping the correct argument turns up eventually

um, I'm just saying you're comparing Waka to Snoop by saying Snoop was seen as a hollow, morally bankrupt derivative beat-dependent (as most gangsta rappers initially are). But Snoop was hailed for his unique delivery from the start, was always held out from the pack.

which wasnt at all what you were saying for 90% of this argument

what was I saying?

my first post

people definitely had the usual gangsta rap content issues ("it aint no fun if the homies can't have none" didn't help) but the rolling stone/ew reviews definitely compliment his skills

― da croupier, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 5:34 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

which is kinda why the snoop comparison feels arbitrary - I mean if critics are praising Waka for his unique flow then it makes sense, cuz that was Snoop's saving grace from the get-go.

― da croupier, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 1:47 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark

instead theyre praising it for his unique personality.

^^two diff arguments croupier

if you say so, deej.

and not to troll, but how exactly would you describe his personality and how it's unique? I'm seeing a lot of "yeah personality sells it" in the thread, but what I've heard doesn't sound that outside the norm.

if you say so, deej.

― da croupier, Tuesday, October 12, 2010 2:07 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

how is "no one said snoop was a bad rapper" the same argument as "some people said snoop was a bad rapper but they say that about lots of gangster rappers so it doesn't matter"

i dont think your 2nd question is particularly troll-y!! but its also kind of hard! how do you describe too $hort's personality?

imo waka is young exuberant hardheaded raw gangsta rap Id. his personality doesnt seem very constructed or distanced at all from the performance, except in teh way he's constructed a pretty hypermasculine hood persona (which he portrays as being pretty much his ... persona period.) his personality comes through very clearly in a way it doesnt in rappers like Gibbs or KRIT or whoever

im not sure how personalities are supposed to be 'outside the norm.' is miccio 'outside the norm' for ilx? was 50 cent? a distinctive personality doesnt have to necessarily be weird or stand out like that, it could be sorta low-key like curren$y. a strong personality just means that you feel like you're getting a clear picture of the artist not just from what he tells u but by the style & technique in how he tells it, imo

lmao his bet performance

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf6ixz

how is "no one said snoop was a bad rapper" the same argument as "some people said snoop was a bad rapper but they say that about lots of gangster rappers so it doesn't matter"

I never said "no one said snoop was a bad rapper" or "some said he was a bad rapper but they say that about a lot of people." I said people had the usual gangsta rap complaints about his gangsta rap, but he was pretty universally seen as exceptional within the genre for his flow. So saying "Waka's like Snoop" only makes more sense than "Waka's like Spice 1" or "Waka's like MC Ren" or whatever if he's got an ace up his sleeve. You say critics are praising his unique personality - though I only found Sean F's Voice review calling his vocals anything more than Lil Jon fight chants - and so I asked what was so unique about it. Sounds like the deal is he's exceptionally nonchalant and indifferent to craft even for an I Don't Give A Fuck rapper. Okeydoke.

sounds like your taste in rap is still shitty & your willingness to take it beyond reductive charicature (lol lil boosie sounds like cartman!!!) is still lacking

i dont think 'pretty nonchalant and indifferent to craft' is what i said at all. maybe read again

'waka's like snoop' makes tons more sense than 'waka's like spice 1' or 'waka's like ren' for that matter. snoop is really popular, waka is really popular. not a niche artist. a character that will appeal to a broader audience. spice 1 is one of my favorite rappers but hes totally a niche gangsta rap dude. and ren??? cmon

waka gets a huge amount of hate for his supposed bad rapping, wayyy more than most gangster rapper. this is kind of indisputable! critics IN THIS THREAD are praising his 'unique personality' -- i dont think there's anyone out there who would deny he certainly has a unique um approach. most of them just think its ignorant/offensive/sloppy/unskilled

i just get the feeling that your sensitivity to the rap discourse is about as effective as a cubicle radio antennae

Where does my taste in rap even come into this? the nonchalant thing comes more from Sean F's review than what you wrote, which seemed kinda contradictory. I mean it's not very constructed except in how it's his personality doesnt seem very constructed or distanced at all from the performance, except in teh way he's constructed a pretty hypermasculine hood persona (which he portrays as being pretty much his ... persona period...Sorry I'm being "reductive" and "unsensitive to the rap discouse" compared to that.

woops i think I melded a paraphrase with a quote in there...his personality doesnt seem very constructed or distanced at all from the performance, except in teh way he's constructed a pretty hypermasculine hood persona (which he portrays as being pretty much his ... persona period.)

didn't mean to make it sound more incoherent.

oh man that performance is incredible