WAKA

*shrugs* most of the ones that get posted to blogs are worthless, goddamn if there's not one thing we can all agree on

been listening to this...

it's pretty interesting, in a lot of way it occurs to me how long i've been listening to hip hop, like i guess my intro was run-dmc/beasties, and then obv became obsessive in the 87-88 days with MTV Raps and Fab 5 Freddy, used to VHS tape the show on Saturday

Waka is kinda weird to me because -- and not that this hasn't been happening for long time -- this is hip hop/rap that finally seems to have no real connection at all to the stuff i grew up on...the beats are darth vader electronics (i suppose if you stretch you could say it's like planet rock but that doesn't really feel true to me), epileptic drum machines....they are really striking actually, like futuristic death music....there's really zero sense of any kind of grounding in rhythm & blues tradition...what's the oldest reference on this album? "shoot first ask questions last" from biggie?

like the older southern dudes grew up in the golden age, listening to that, but Waka's so young he's really grown up with this kind of music, he's just a fish in water, it's natural to him because this is how hip hop is, not that old stuff....

as far as the album goes, i think i like it...or i admire the intensity. i think it suffers a bit from "bustin' at em" being the first song...that song is fucking bonkers to me, such a statement of purpose for what the album is supposed to be that every thing else seems to pale in comparison...

lex luger is the beat maker? he seems like he's got a real aesthetic. the beats are by far the best part about this album. seems to work of the template of songs like "no problem" by lil scrappy but has even more menacing vibe....parts remind me of the planet terror soundtrack

i don't really know about Waka as an MC, he doesn't seem to have a lot of talent to me. I'm not a huge Gucci fan, but there's a real weird, sly sense of humor and eccentricity there, he seems charming and has a personality in a way that great MCs do, even if I don't love him.

I'm kinda mystified that ppl think this a "personality driven" album...Waka himself seems like a cipher to me, he definitely has some amusing tropes, like the WAKA WAKA WAKA WAKA type shit actually works in terms of how aggro the album is...

lyrically he's average at best, pretty laughable at best...and lyrics aside he seems just above average in terms of flow compared to other southern dudes

one thing he does that I really like is the intense layering of ad libs, like there's always this insane chatter going on in the background like "BOW BOW BOW WAKA WAKA BLAH BLAH", it adds to the feeling of chaos and impending doom.

the MOP comparisons seem pretty apt. he seems to relate to current day southern stuff in the same way they relate to the NYC rap of their era...and...like MOP, sometimes it can get a bit monochromatic and exhausting (don't get me wrong I love MOP for what they are but honestly I only ever really listen to their greatest hits)

so yeah...it's a cool record, but something that feels cool for now, i can't imagine I'll listen to this like 10 years from now....

the OMGWTF album of the year talk feels a bit overheated to me, maybe it says more -- as someone upthread maybe whiney? suggested -- about the rap scene today than it does about waka.

this is hip hop/rap that finally seems to have no real connection at all to the stuff i grew up on...like the older southern dudes grew up in the golden age, listening to that, but Waka's so young he's really grown up with this kind of music, he's just a fish in water,

i hit a kind of similar note in

Things that don't get rapped about anymore

but really i hear this shouty rap go back thru hyphy & crunk & mop & nwa all the way to run dmc.

maybe it says more -- as someone upthread maybe whiney? suggested -- about the rap scene today than it does about waka.

eh i think ilm dudes just lean towards street-tested popular gangsta rap as a preference

but really i hear this shouty rap go back thru hyphy & crunk & mop & nwa all the way to run dmc.

yeah in a way, this just *feels* different to me...i'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing either! rap should change! it has no obligation to provide me with boom bap in my dotage. at a certain point if i don't totally understand it, maybe that just means things are changing...lol...man only in rap do you start to talk about yourself as a senior citizen in your mid-30s

the beat on "smoke, drank" is amazing...the cyclical synths hold things down, then the kicks and snares have a weird, almost random sounding aspect, yet they feel on beat....if i was a better musician i'd speculate they were in a non 4/4 time signature but i bet i'm wrong

yeah, it's straight 4/4

i figured, still it's neat-o how off kilter it feels.

"Smoke, Drank" is the first track I've heard by this guy that hasn't made me feel "get off my lawn" old

"no hands" doesn't work very well, seems like the weakest track, the smooth club chorus just seems to diminish the momentum of all the aggression

Pretty interesting analysis upper miss. I grew up in that era too, and I actually kind of like its energy in a Beasties/Run DMC way.

also, in a similar vein, this is like the most Rick Rubin-style single to get MTV play since 99 Problems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daRhEOkUL1o

Roscoe Hyphen's voice isn't smooth, though, it's just unpleasant imo

xpost

"no hands" doesn't work very well, seems like the weakest track, the smooth club chorus just seems to diminish the momentum of all the aggression

― a prairie based companion (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah

haha yeah the hook sucks which doesn't help, it's just the one track that stuck out to me as just being there out of obligation to have something that might be a radio single

also ytf is whale on it?

bcuz he has no identity & will chameleon onto any rap record ever

u know what this kind of makes me think of (although not as good & in a different way) is doggystyle. i remember a lot of folks making similar criticisms about doggystyle at the time -- snoop was a cipher, morally negative, no human complexity, beats were the best thing about it, etc etc etc

really? p much all i remember minus delores tucker stuff is ppl been blown away by this new drawl flow

otm but i still just don't see who runs out like "i gotta have wale on my track!" unless they're like charles hamilton or something xxp

really? p much all i remember minus delores tucker stuff is ppl been blown away by this new drawl flow

― waka flocka display name (zvookster), Tuesday, October 12, 2010 12:25 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

people who were our ages back then. but read any pieces about it & its like, poor man's slick rick & all that

i forget what it was i read recently that made me realize ppl used to think snoop was kind of a cipher ill see if i can find it

people definitely had the usual gangsta rap content issues ("it aint no fun if the homies can't have none" didn't help) but the rolling stone/ew reviews definitely compliment his skills

wow really? i'd like to see the link because i thought snoop was so charismatic from the moment i saw the deep cover video

i'm not knocking waka for being morally negative, the breathless nihilism is really the album's strength.

thing about Doggystyle was that despite the grim subject partner the album felt like a party (perhaps sans "Serial Killa" and "For All My..."). it became easy to forget that the lyrics were about yer typical gangsterisms.

i don't remember the critical tide really turning against the west coast until like, the dogg pound

"Doggystyle is filled with verbal and vocal feats that meet its three-mile-high expectations." - Rolling Stone

"Snoop's nasal voice swings from playful, sing-songy rhythms to steely-cold toughness, never losing its slinky personality-he's a hustler with charm to burn." - Entertainment Weekly

"His relaxed vocal style is a perfect match for Dr. Dre's bass-heavy producing. The songs on this album are built around '70s-style funk grooves; Snoop's voice is lithe enough to snake its way around the big beats." - Time

important to also remember gangsta rap wasn't really that old yet in 1993, world wasn't as tired of it and white people weren't as rampantly lampooning it....

spin gave waka 7/10 fwiw i dont think big-mag critics are particularly trashing this one either

i mean obviously the appeal is different -- it wouldnt make sense to call waka 'lithe'

so who did call snoop a poor man's slick rick?

i dont know i cant really look right now @ work but ive absolutely read ppl - esp older rap critics -- arguing he wasnt really all that great, poor man's slick rick / big daddy kane, whatever. i know oliver wang gave chronic & i think also? doggystyle negative reviews at the time

I read one review of Doggystyle who complained of Snoop Dogg's lyrical limitations, but I can't remember what mag it was

I mean obviously Snoop was responding to someone when he said "Beats? So that's what makes me now?" on Doggfather (ie, guessing the people who suggested Dre carried most of the load on Doggystyle)

Wang seems mostly ok with him in Classic material: The Hip-Hop Album Guide, dude started writing in 1994 according to his online bio but I dunno what for.

xpost yeah obv he was dissing dre on the album released after dre acrimoniously left death row but before he did, but the idea that Snoop was seen as some worthless hanger-on wasn't a popular one by any means.

Even xgau, who hates West Coast rap, admitted Snoop's ability to "enunciate while drawling" was unique

i def hated The Chronic in 1992, btw. But I was a teenager not a rock critic

Snoop was the first 'gangsta' rapper I ever listened to, and the first artist whose music my mom refused to buy for me.

I remember turning on MTV or listening to the local urban station, hoping one of his tracks would come on. remember being ecstatic the first time I saw Doggy Dogg World's video--was home sick from school, and that vid made my day.

xpost yeah obv he was dissing dre on the album released after dre acrimoniously left death row but before he did, but the idea that Snoop was seen as some worthless hanger-on wasn't a popular one by any means.

― da croupier, Tuesday, 12 October 2010 18:08 (28 minutes ago)

i never said anyone saw him this way? i just compared him to how waka's been received as a rapper

and, imo, its comparable

oliver wang has famously realized the error of his ways re: dre/snoop, btw -- classic material only came out a few years ago!! of course everyone recognizes classic status of those records NOW

sorry, I took this (snoop was a cipher, morally negative, no human complexity, beats were the best thing about it, etc etc etc) to suggest that he was worthless and dependent on the beats to succeed.

xpost where did wang write about the chronic originally for? his bio says he started in 1994, so it couldn't have been too high-profile if it was of the moment.

i dont know -- maybe it was doggystyle not chronic -- it was one of those two records. but i cant google around for this kind of stuff at work

"sorry, I took this (snoop was a cipher, morally negative, no human complexity, beats were the best thing about it, etc etc etc) to suggest that he was worthless and dependent on the beats to succeed."

it more suggests they thought he was derivitive without offering 'substance' which is more along the lines of what has been said abt waka

first albums are always like that!

particularly in gangster rap

which is kinda why the snoop comparison feels arbitrary - I mean if critics are praising Waka for his unique flow then it makes sense, cuz that was Snoop's saving grace from the get-go.

so are you disagreeing just to disagree then, and hoping the correct argument turns up eventually

um, I'm just saying you're comparing Waka to Snoop by saying Snoop was seen as a hollow, morally bankrupt derivative beat-dependent (as most gangsta rappers initially are). But Snoop was hailed for his unique delivery from the start, was always held out from the pack.

which wasnt at all what you were saying for 90% of this argument

what was I saying?