Ned, let's talk about your 136 Albums of the 90s.

Not sure, really.

So upon deeper inspection, Tom's list is really great also (even though I understand he's disowned it) and has served as a reminder to pick up several albums I've not gotten around to yet -- Ghost's debut, Beta Band's debut, +/-, Chill Out, Ende Neu, Rock 'n' Roll Station. A look at my stats:

OWN: 41 -- lots of great stuff here. I'm particularly surprised that Tom's included Fushitsusha/Keiji Haino, Dead C, Faust, etc. but maybe I've put his tastes into a box a bit much... a welcome surprise, in any case.

USED TO OWN: 7 -- Mag Fields, Palace, Sundays, Frank Black solo.

DO NOT OWN: 52 -- including those above that I've meant to check out. Admittedly there's a lot more on Tom's list than Ned's that I haven't familiarized myself with... something to change piece-by-piece in the coming years.

re: Mercury Rev -- their 90s output is pretty astonishing. the 00s have dulled that feeling quite a bit, but if, say, deserters songs was their last album, it'd be an unimpeachable run of classic reocrds imo.

Agreed.

(i even like quite a bit of all is dream, so it's really just the last two that have been bummers)

There is some funny stuff upthread: Ned Raggett vs. deej FITE, cee-oh-tee-tee vs. strongo hulkington FITE, etc.

ott, i was thinking this the other day: do you own any music made by black people?

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:05 PM (6 years ago)

What caused you to think that, Jess? And do you think there's an inherent value to a particular music simply because it was made by black people?

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:07 PM (6 years ago)

one of your former pitchfork staffers linked me to a website where you detailed your record collection. quite detailed. and i just didn't remember seeing any. odd, is all.

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:10 PM (6 years ago)

Well that would be my bitter, paranoiac underling Brent DiCresenczo, or however you spell his last name. He spends an inordinate amount of time worrying that I'm smarter than him.

What you saw was a catalog of the CDs I bought in (and brought to) college, which I had in an Excel spreadsheet; my roommate from last year converted it to a graphical web DB testing out his MySQL and PHP skills. So yeah, it was mostly white indie and electronic bands from the laet-80s/90s. Off the top of my head though...Tricky, Jeru, Busta, N.W.A., Public Enemy, and Eddie Floyd were in there. James Brown and Bob Marley I had on tapes, for my walkman-- I used to bring it to the studio to drum along to. Feel better now?

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:20 PM (6 years ago)

markers if you can dig this one up on Web Archive or anything, I will be amazed. Challenge is ON.

It seems that the Pumpkins love is the thing for which Ned gets the most general ire. This makes me sad.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:38 PM (6 years ago)

Funny, cause I even like the Pumpkins.

― ddrake, Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:39 PM (6 years ago)

Wonder if deej would still rep for the Pumpkins seven years later??

Wow I was a real dick in this thread. I mean, even more than usual.

I found this along with the original Pitchfork 90s list a long time ago. From the individual top 90s lists of Pitchfork staff.

CHRIS OTT
1. My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
2. Jesus Lizard - Goat
3. Radiohead - OK Computer
4. Portishead - Dummy
5. Slint - Spiderland
6. Flaming Lips - The Soft Bulletin
7. Bjork - Post
8. DJ Shadow - Entroducing...
9. Pavement - Slanted & Enchanted
10. Breeders - Pod
11. Yo La Tengo - Painful
12. Lemonheads - It's a Shame About Ray
13. Liz Phair - Exile in Guyville
14. Warlock Pinchers - Circusized Peanuts
15. Ride - Nowhere
16. Built to Spill - Perfect From Now On
17. Aphex Twin - I Care Because You Do
18. Primal Scream - Screamedelica
19. Cocteau Twins - Heaven or Las Vegas
20. Bjork - Homogenic
21. Dinosaur Jr. - Green Mind
22. Nirvana - Nevermind
23. Mercury Rev - Yerself is Steam
24. Happy Mondays - Pills 'N' Thrills and Bellyaches
25. Sonic Youth - Goo
26. Tricky - Maxinquaye
27. Spiritualized - Pure Phase
28. Morrissey - Vauxhall and I
29. Jesus Lizard - Liar
30. Luna - Bewitched
31. Swell - 41
32. Stereolab - Mars Audiac Quintet
33. Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works II
34. Screeching Weasel - My Brain Hurts
35. His Name is Alive - Stars on E.S.P.
36. Oval - 94diskont
37. Bedhead - Whatfunlifewas
38. Busta Rhymes - When Disaster Strikes
39. Built to Spill - There's Nothing Wrong With Love
40. Depeche Mode - Violator
41. Sinead O'Connor - I Do Not Want What I Havent Got
42. Burger/Ink - Las Vegas
43. Sunny Day Real Estate - LP2
44. Ride - Going Blank Again
45. Seam - The Problem With Me
46. Sonora Pine - II
47. PJ Harvey - Rid of Me
48. Codeine - Frigid Stars
49. Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream
50. Swirlies - They Spent Their Wild Youthful Days...
51. Replacements - All Shook Down
52. Weezer - Blue
53. Karate - Karate
54. Pixies - Bossanova
55. Talk Talk - Laughing Stock
56. Pavement - Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain
57. Magnetic Fields - Holiday
58. Seefeel - Quique
59. Orbital - Orbital 2
60. Luna - Penthouse
61. Archers of Loaf - Vee Vee
62. Radiohead - The Bends
63. Helmet - Meantime
64. Rage Against the Machine - The Battle of Los Angeles
65. Yo La Tengo - Electr-o-pura
66. Massive Attack - Mezzanine
67. Dismemberment Plan - Emergency & I
68. Oasis - (What's the Story) Morning Glory?
69. Superchunk - On the Mouth
70. Strung Out - Suburban Teenage Wasteland Blues
71. Swirlies - Blondertongueaudiobaton
72. Low - The Curtain Hits the Cast
73. Throwing Muses - The Real Ramona
74. Chapterhouse - Whirlpool
75. Melvins - Houdini
76. Sebadoh - III
77. Curve - Doppelganger
78. Peter Gabriel - Us
79. U2 - Achtung Baby
80. Drive Like Jehu - Yank Crime
81. Dinosaur Jr. - Where You Been?
82. Milf - Ha Ha Bus!
83. F.Y.P. - Finish Your Popcorn
84. Belle and Sebastian - Tigermilk
85. Quicksand - Slip
86. Mogwai - Come on Die Young
87. Guided By Voices - Alien Lanes
88. Dave Matthews Band - Under the Table and Dreaming
89. Faint - Blank Wave Arcade
90. Suzanne Vega - 99.9F
91. Jawbreaker - 24 Hour Revenge Therapy
92. Liz Phair - Whip Smart
93. The The - Dusk
94. Bettie Seveert - Palomine
95. 18th Dye - Tribute to a Bus
96. Unrest - Imperial F.F.R.R.
97. Galaxie 500 - This is Our Music
98. Moby - Ambient
99. Prince - (Love Symbol Album)
100.Beat Happening - You Turn Me On

A lot of my favorites on there.

Like Milf, The Swirlies, Bedhead, Swell, GBV, 18th Dye...

98. Moby - Ambient

!!!

Ambient is a really weird album. very dark and muted and not very ambient at all.

the first track uses the same strings he later used in "Move"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S43AEG4DyvY

56. Pavement - Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain

HEEEEEYYYYY WAIT A SECOND...

I can't get past "to those gold sounds" because I always pressed >> after that.

― cee-oh-tee-tee, Friday, September 10, 2010 6:03 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark

Suggest Ban Permalink

As far as I'm concerned this band ends at "Stop Breathing".

― cee-oh-tee-tee, Friday, September 10, 2010 6:48 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark

should we assume there are only 55 albums or less that Ott actually likes?

I mean, that would explain 78. Peter Gabriel - Us

88. Dave Matthews Band - Under the Table and Dreaming

I predict this'll make you double take.

man dude hated pitchfork even then

putting indie chestnuts he actually hated alongside obvious yuppie horseshit, that's some scathing satire

re you giving YOURSELF a fair chance to listen to hip hop?

90s lists made in actual proximity to the 90s are always so much more interesting than lists people make today.

Also, Ned - God Machine! Haven't heard them in years years years.

I've got other writers lists from the same source, if anyone is interested.

Where can you find the individual writers' lists from the pitchfork 90s thing? And are there individual lists for PFM's singles countdown?

Also, Ned - God Machine! Haven't heard them in years years years.

They'll be coming up in a Not Just the Ticket entry soonish...

Looking forward to it.

I've got other writers lists from the same source, if anyone is interested.

Yes please. Not so much out of morbid curiosity, but because I'd like to see what Mark R. and others were spinning at the time.

Link?

88. Dave Matthews Band - Under the Table and Dreaming

I predict this'll make you double take.

― I will always think of you, while (quite) fondly, myself (Evan)

It's even higher in the original list that 0tt posted upthread -- #70!!

Going thru cee-oh-tee-tee's list a few posts up:

OWN: 56 / 100

USED TO OWN, SOLD: 15 / 100 (Liz Phair, Built to Spill, Tricky [agree w/ Ned, Maxinquaye is really overrated], SDRE, Weezer [lol 8th grade], RATM [lol 9th grade], D-Plan, Oasis, Swirlies [zzzzz], Sebadoh, B&S [lol indie], Quicksand, Dave Matthews [lol 7th grade]).

DON'T OWN: 29 / 100 - mostly snoozy indie rock I guess??

NEED TO PICK UP: Oval - 94diskont, Sinead O'Connor - I Do Not Want..., Burger/Ink - Vegas. I haven't yet stumbled across Oval or Burger/Ink used but I've really got no excuse for not having heard that Sinead O'Connor by now.

Would be v. curious to know how many of his top 100 Chr1s 0tt still owns in 2010...

What a thread. Weird there are differences, I must have like spot-edited the one I submitted? Bizarre. The one I pasted must be the one I had on my computer - the one you found is what counted. I still own all of these insofar as they're on my hard drive(s), but of course feel some of the choices are absurd, dishonest, or different today. Perfect example is The Flaming Lips in the Top 10. I hate the Flaming Lips to death and always have but there was such inordinate praise for the band at the time that I felt pressure as a supposed "critic" to conform to that consensus. That is a glaringly ugly thing for me. The other changes would be ones of over-estimation or weighting to push the record higher in aggregate (Spiderland, ugh, Pod is too high). Green Mind is too low, Entroducing at 4 or 8 is ridiculous in either case, Warlock Pinchers was complete challops but you can all have Die Antwoord instead, you deserve them.

Glad I repped for All Shook Down and Karate, a few others I still think are excellent "full lengths" often ignored. The pop-punk smattering was semi-challops because it was so unfashionable at the time and everyone was ignoring there were some good, fun bands in that mix. Happy to have My Brain Hurts in the Top 40, probably still would today. Achtung Baby is insanely too-low (one worse than Us! Hahaha) and there are plenty of other dumb decisions to laugh at. All I can say is I was creditably honest in most of these choices, less concerned about whether or not they made me look "cool" or were being clocked by others. If you pit that list against others from the same time I think that's a net positive. In the same way other staff members stumped for the Wrens or Walt Mink; I just had better taste.

Dearth of hip-hop is like saying "WHERE ARE THE COUNTRY ALBUMS". I mean that's such a hack complaint. DAS RACIST U DIDN'T CHART the biggest white-affirmed genre of the decade...let's let that drift.

Props on All Shook Down and Achtung Baby, those are both great. Have you heard anything in the '04-'10 timespan that you'd add to yr list in retrospect? (Glaringly obvious oversights -- off the top of your head, of course.)

i think these lists of opinion by lots of people are extraordinarily useful in todays music world -- i can only admire Ned's useful hyper-qualified effort here -- i wish that more of people's big lists were so good at qualification, on rationale.

Seconding this from way upthread, by the way. Can anyone else recommend any other great *personal* lists with running commentary and interesting tastes ('60s to '00s) that are done in a similar fashion to Ned's 136 albums and Tom's top 100 singles?

I think the biggest blind-spot, despite the hip-hop contentiousness at the time, is actually Britpop. You can see I was a diehard shoegaze/baggy stoner stranded by the shift toward UK-centric attitudes and preen/suss - because I couldn't appreciate the under/overtones, because it seemed like stale retro arena rock...the implications of that stuff only ripened for me later, as I was older/wiser/did better drugs. When I made that list it was still early days looking back through that period, still interpreting it as a mostly singles-driven moment with few epic Albums. You know, like the Archers of Loaf's Vee Vee. *facepalm*

All I can say is I was creditably honest in most of these choices, less concerned about whether or not they made me look "cool" or were being clocked by others.

So do your recent claims that you've never cared for CR past "Stop Breathin" mean your more concerned about looking "cool" now?

or is it like the soft bulletin, where you were concerned about looking "cool"

That's not what I claimed. It's what I feel now. Read it again.

The retroactive statement I made was in re: turning that album off when "Gold Soundz" came on, which I did almost without fail. It's a boring song that mostly reminded me the album was about to shit the bed and I should pick out something else.

so you couldn't think of 55 albums in the 90s that didn't shit the bed halfway through?

again, is this one of those albums you put on your list out of critical peer pressure despite finding seriously flawed, or one of the ones you're patting on yourself on the back for honestly enjoying at the time?

damn son

You've asked a different question (and clarified, good).

The first three songs on CRCR are individually among my personal faves for the decade. I would rank it probably slightly lower today, but it's still a really good record through "Range Life", even if I think "Gold Soundz" is middling and "Range Life" is something of a standalone novelty cut. I don't think it qualifies for back-patting, especially weeks away from Pitchfork calling "Gold Soundz" the best song of the entire decade. Its profile is a little high for that. Versus, say, Karate.

ah see cuz I was confused after I got this

As far as I'm concerned this band ends at "Stop Breathing".

― cee-oh-tee-tee, Friday, September 10, 2010 6:48 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark

when I asked if you'd always hated "Gold Soundz" on its thread.

Link?

http://tclub.obninsk.ru/psb/pitchforkmedia.html

14. Warlock Pinchers - Circusized Peanuts

^^^awesome pick :) :)

Not to play captain save-an-ott, but could everyone else on this thread also post lists that they made 10+ years ago that they feel 100% secure in now?

i pains me that future generations will never know "morrissey rides a cock horse"

Not to play captain save-an-ott, but could everyone else on this thread also post lists that they made 10+ years ago that they feel 100% secure in now?

Personally, what I find fascinating isn't that tastes change, but that he claims to hav put an album in his Top Ten by a band he's always hated solely because of the critical peer pressure he felt (That his take on CRCR softened after this list was pulled up is less surprising). There are plenty of albums I overrated due to critical Kool-Aid and naivete, but I can't think of a time I pushed an album knowing it sucks.

Not clowning 0tt's list at all, I think it's pretty good (given that I own >50% of its albums, I'd be a fool to say otherwise).

xxp

Deadly Kung-Fu is sort of in-between music and a Jerky Boys tape; Peanuts is a real record, I still love "Introducing Ourselves" and "Dancehall" to death. Colorado Krew 7"s have to go for big bucks today.