lex, it's a decent song that would be better w/o the stigma of it being about kanyegate
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:04 (fourteen years ago) link
well, it's a really good song actually
what's it called? every news report i've read so far has neglected to mention this detail
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:06 (fourteen years ago) link
"mine" is about a specific moment too! notably the one sung about in the chorus -- it's just a bit fleshed out with background than "need you now" -- i don't think it attempts to be a 'character sketch' tho
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:06 (fourteen years ago) link
it's called "innocence" i think
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:07 (fourteen years ago) link
taylor swift needs to use some different narrative arcs imo
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:07 (fourteen years ago) link
& i don't really see the point of judging taylor's music as character sketches, seeing as she's not writing movie scripts -- she's writing pop songs
it's like the 'feminist' arguments against taylor as if female music should be judged 100% on how feminist it is
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:09 (fourteen years ago) link
the-dream isn't a girl with a guitar.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, September 13, 2010 3:00 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
i also don't see what the difference is -- you only care if girls w/ guitars write songs that are good character sketches?
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:10 (fourteen years ago) link
you really don't listen to any female singer-songwriters do you
that movie script line is such bullshit
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:10 (fourteen years ago) link
taylor's songs aren't interesting enough for the lyrics to be bad.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:12 (fourteen years ago) link
i don't think taylor is as monolithic a writer (subject-wise) as you're paint her to be, dayo -- her huge singles are maybe, but shit like "white horse" & "breathe" are much different than "love story" & "you belong with me"
also i think "mine" is is enough of a switch up in subject matter to still seem fresh -- i would at least hear the whole album first
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:14 (fourteen years ago) link
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, September 13, 2010 3:12 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
well i disagree with the idea that her songs aren't interesting and that her lyrics are bad, so \(o_O)/
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:17 (fourteen years ago) link
Then, you took me by surpriseYou said, "I'll never leave you alone."
You said, "I remember how we felt, sitting by the water.And every time I look at you, it's like the first time.I fell in love with a careless man's careful daughter.She is the best thing that's ever been mine."
He knelt to the ground and pulled out a ringAnd saidMarry me Juliet you'll never hae to be aloneI love you and that's all I really knowI talked to your dad go pick out a white dressIt's a love story baby just say yes
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:18 (fourteen years ago) link
I guess it just annoys me that her latest big song kind of apes her last big song
because there's a POV change? that also happens in two of her 30 other songs? i guess it's not that big of an issue to me
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:21 (fourteen years ago) link
notice the part where I said "her last big song"
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:22 (fourteen years ago) link
i don't think it's bullshit to say that arguing that a pop singer's songs aren't good enough 'character sketches' might be missing the point of the music in the first place
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:22 (fourteen years ago) link
which reduces the set to 'love story, you belong with me, mine'
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:23 (fourteen years ago) link
her last big song was "you belong with me"
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:23 (fourteen years ago) link
i'm not gonna disagree that "mine" is structurally a lot like "love story" -- it's just a lot less fairy tale enough for me for it to not come off as a total retread
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:24 (fourteen years ago) link
also it seems taylor has an awful lot of fights @ 2 am in the morning
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:27 (fourteen years ago) link
i love the recurring taylor motifs - fights at 2am, kissing in the rain, tuesday nights &c
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:29 (fourteen years ago) link
*sigh*
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:31 (fourteen years ago) link
pop singers: rihanna, kesha, katy perry
girls with guitars: alanis morrisette, joni mitchell, taylor swift
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:34 (fourteen years ago) link
is taylor swift dueting w/ b.o.b. or john mayer?
damn dude, that is a fucking archaic way to view pop music
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:35 (fourteen years ago) link
lol @ the idea that kissing in the rain is a specific taylor motif, rather than just a terrible cliche
― just sayin, Monday, 13 September 2010 08:36 (fourteen years ago) link
tape store,
laura marling (and joni mitchell) comes from a completely different songwriting tradition and is trying to do completely different things with her music (and doing them very well) (to be slightly reductive, individual catharsis vs. relatable normativity).
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, September 13, 2010 7:45 AM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:36 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, if you're gonna sit here and argue that taylor swift -- literally the highest selling musician in america -- isn't a pop musician, then you're kind of insane
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:37 (fourteen years ago) link
was alanis morrisette not pop?
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:38 (fourteen years ago) link
yes...
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:39 (fourteen years ago) link
you're the one who seemingly set up the dichotomy between "pop musician" and "girls with guitars" -- alanis & taylor aren't (or weren't, in alanis' case) both?
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:40 (fourteen years ago) link
alanis morissette's songs are mostly even more "simplistic" than taylor's
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:40 (fourteen years ago) link
basically what i'm saying is that taylor is a part of the, um, let's say 'auteurist tradition,' and she's a p unremarkable auteur
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:40 (fourteen years ago) link
as opposed to someone like rihanna, whose main job is (often) to be a great interpreter
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:41 (fourteen years ago) link
lol my argument is getting v murky right now but taylor's lyrics still suck
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:43 (fourteen years ago) link
idk i think what you're doing is setting up like two totally different criteria with which to judge taylor or any female pop artist who plays an acoustic guitar
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:44 (fourteen years ago) link
well that makes more sense xp
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:45 (fourteen years ago) link
what i was trying to say is this:
taylor comes from the tradition of picking up a pen/piece of paper/guitar and writing/recording, and lyrics are an important part of this tradition. i think her lyrics are bland.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:46 (fourteen years ago) link
like what separates taylor from coffeehouse performers?
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:47 (fourteen years ago) link
the auteurist tradition isn't as homogeneous as you're making out tho, TS
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:49 (fourteen years ago) link
because if we're going to start talking about taylor as a pop artist, then let's discuss the production.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:50 (fourteen years ago) link
no, you're right, it's not. that's what i meant by 'murky argument,' since plenty of non-girls w/ guitars play the role of auteur.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:51 (fourteen years ago) link
idk i think it's pretty obvious what separates taylor swift from colbie callait & sara barelies (too lazy to look up the spelling) let alone 'coffeehouse performers'
what are your beefs w/ the production
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:53 (fourteen years ago) link
If she's a pop star, the production is what counts? Ridiculous.
― abcfsk, Monday, 13 September 2010 09:06 (fourteen years ago) link
lol never thought I'd see someone try to use rockism to argue against taylor
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 10:34 (fourteen years ago) link
personally her lyrics are what make her for me - sure they're about bog standard things, but the way they play out in lockstep with the music, how she almost seems to write the music to fit the lyrics (instead of the other way around which is what I feel like happens most of the time), that's what's special.
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 10:35 (fourteen years ago) link
lex (and anyone else who didn't hear it), here's the VMA song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF0x2_mXjM4
― ilxor has truly been got at and become an ILXor (ilxor), Monday, 13 September 2010 14:27 (fourteen years ago) link
i've heard it now, she's still not good at hitting notes live, huh
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 14:32 (fourteen years ago) link
Nope... not quite, haha.
― ilxor has truly been got at and become an ILXor (ilxor), Monday, 13 September 2010 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link