Robyn

Well, I think it's pretty clear that she's not just "smiley faces", i.e. the songs just mentioned above. So that criticism is rubbish.

For the record I think there are quite a few misses on both these EPs and I really wouldn't have minded her waiting a bit longer to put together one super-tight album. Given the fact that she's still putting the finishing touches on Pt 3 I kind of wonder if it was a personal finance thing, or a contract thing, where she really needed to just get some stuff out there before it was all really ready. The high points are exceedingly high for me though so..

the review pretty much says that her voice is fine technically but she fails at conveying most emotions, which...obv that's something to care about?

it's not "smiley faces" as in jolly happiness, it's "smiley faces" as in that smug cutesy thing she always has going on, even on her boring heartbreak ballads

I think she conveys emotions pretty well. Better than, say, Rachel Stevens (and that didn't hurt her at all).

it is the way in which she conveys emotion, not how much emotion she conveys. like i said a while ago, i often don't feel like i understand why she's singing what she's singing. i almost feel like she could take it or leave it.

that being said, i think "dancing on my own" and "hang with me" and even "don't fucking tell me what to do" are strong exceptions to that idea.

but yeah, i do care about a level of emotional investment in a song. there is a way to sound detached and still committed to what you're singing.

it probably did hurt r. stevens, really! idk stevens lucked out with some really well-crafted songs that conveyed the emotion in the songwriting, and i think her slight air of detachment was the right way to perform them; actually on a song-by-song basis, i think stevens did manage to communicate the emotions behind each song, it's just that overall she was a boring popstar character. robyn's songs aren't as well-written - mostly either nonsense or cliché with little in between - and to me, her voice always sounds a bit hectoring.

^^great word

Hectoring's actually the one word I wouldn't think of with Robyn! (Except maybe in her cod-rap boast mode.) It's so weird how differently she comes across to people. I mean it's no use me telling you that her voice actually DOES convey heartbreak, or ambiguous fascination, or twee pugnacity, or grudging acceptance, or the sublime feeling of being loved by someone you love too. If it doesn't to you then it doesn't. But it might help to explain WHY it doesn't instead of just saying so.

By the way all the comments at the end of that Voice article are just <3 <3 <3

One thing that is very true about Robyn though - and this is as far as I'll go to concede the "limited range of emotions" accusation, which is RONG but is trying to describe something real - is that she has this paradox: in every song she's playing a different character, yet she has such a distinctive personality (love it or hate it) that it shines through in every song as well.

I agree w/ the roboticness of Robyn - wrote this upthread

listened to robyn again for the first time in maybe two, three years after really falling in love with her stuff - nowadays I don't know if I have time to her, she's a little too sincere/monochromatic - her emoting lacks the subtleties I've come to expect from my pop divas nowadays

― "I am the bone lord," Tom proclaimed skulkingly. (dyao), Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:43 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark

and it sounds like not much has changed.

Hectoring's actually the one word I wouldn't think of with Robyn! (Except maybe in her cod-rap boast mode.) It's so weird how differently she comes across to people. I mean it's no use me telling you that her voice actually DOES convey heartbreak, or ambiguous fascination, or twee pugnacity, or grudging acceptance, or the sublime feeling of being loved by someone you love too. If it doesn't to you then it doesn't. But it might help to explain WHY it doesn't instead of just saying so.

― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, September 10, 2010 1:01 AM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark

That's a tough one. can you explain why it does, for you, in concrete terms? it's hard to put that kind of thing into words.

sometimes it just doesn't sound like she cares too much about what she's putting out there. the whole thing -- the message, the sound, the overall feel. it sounds like it kind of happened to her, and she went with it, because certain people liked it or something. like she's playing dress up for the sake of other people. and she is a great show-woman -- that is true.

why does it sound that way, on a physical level? i don't think i hear enough depth in the tone of her voice -- the timbre often sounds too flat. instead, she seems to employ certain accents as a means of expression but they more or less just annoy me. i'm not sure i can explain it better than that in terms of physical qualities.

I suggest everybody vacate this thread and listen to the new fantasia

they're no different to the usual "jUsTiN rox UR gAy!!!!11111" fan defensiveness in response to most negative reviews!

i'm half-asleep so this might come out garbled, but i get a real self-absorbed impression from robyn's vocals - it's like she sets up scenarios that she thinks are Good Looks for whatever reason (eg "dancing on my own" casts her as sensitive, as an outsider, feeds into suspicion/envy of people having an unqualified Good Time, the myth that heartbreak is a natural thing to feel on the dancefloor), but it's like she thinks that's enough - she doesn't get inside the scenario enough for me, she doesn't make me feel what the narrator feels, she doesn't bring it to life - it's just a scenario w/pre-existing signifiers and she relies on those for it to be affecting.

cf this fantasia single i was listening to today, where i have no irl experience of the narrator's perspective, but she delivers it so well that i'm with her every step of the way - both in the sense of having exactly what she's talking about evoked, and on her side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Nxpes6wgM

HAHAHA genuine xp!!!

when i was listening to the fantasia album today, part of me was obviously thinking about how it's a really great r&b album, and then part of me was thinking about how woefully underappreciated it'll be compared to robyn and janelle monáe, who are both at least within the same ballpark, and that is just WRONG and NOT FAIR.

the myth that heartbreak is a natural thing to feel on the dancefloor)

expand on that

it just seems a lot of people are v much in love with the idea of ~subverting~ the good-times vibe of club life and dancefloors with tears, heartbreak &c - uncomfortably close to ye olde indie maxim that the only true and real emotions are sad ones, and also bs.

i would much rather hear songs from people dancing their asses off and getting their boy/girl in the middle of the dancefloor than the wallflowers being awkward and harshing the buzz tbh.

i'm on the other side of that fence. obv every song has a time and a place, but i haven't heard too many songs about feeling sad on the dancefloor and tbh, i could hear more. dancefloors are very emotional places for people.

and just the idea of going out -- searching, in the midst of all these people, for something or someone. that is a very complicated issue, and it's not always just fun.

I just listened to only love can break your heart and it kinda hit that spot

I remember a Neil Tennant quote from when I was younger talking about celebrating your depression on the dancefloor, and that's always stuck with me. Of course I was an angsty pre-teen who probably did buy into 'the only meaningful music is sad music' with my Pumpkins t-shirt but still. I love to dance to silly songs and joyous songs and sad songs, and I take exception to the notion that the purpose is for one thing and one thing only.

Although my experience on the dancefloor has always been a complicated one.

One of my problems with Robyn is how her vocal melodies and lyrics insist on mirrorball tragedy when her voice is clearly designed for giddy show-me-love.

I mean this:

She has described her quasi-emcee "voice" as "kick-ass," but it reads more like pipsqueak—her Nordic tongue doesn't spit so much as gleek... [insert several unilluminating examples] ... Glance at a picture of this five-foot-three, blue-eyed, blonde-haired thumbnail sketch of Scandinavia, and ask yourself: Are you scared yet?

I mean this is just extraordinarily -- I dunno, conservative. Is Robyn disallowed from copping rap moves because she's white?? Because she's not American ... because she has a high voice ... is it because she doesn't sound like DMX? Because she's short???

I guess we have to disagree about whether she's living "inside the song". Some of her songs are not even made to live inside of, they're all surface. But others.. "Dream On" is probably my favorite thing she's done and Lex I have a hard time believing you wouldn't sweat your ass off to that late in a set somewhere.

I mean, it's clear from her released work that Robyn herself subscribes to mirrorball heartbreak.

Although my experience on the dancefloor has always been a complicated one.

― a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Friday, September 10, 2010 1:33 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

otm x100, and my experience going out has always been a complicated one.

I guess we have to disagree about whether she's living "inside the song". Some of her songs are not even made to live inside of, they're all surface. But others.. "Dream On" is probably my favorite thing she's done and Lex I have a hard time believing you wouldn't sweat your ass off to that late in a set somewhere.

― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, September 10, 2010 1:35 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

i still would like to hear why her voice conveys to you all the things that it does

btw that's a really good way to put it -- "...whether or not she's living inside the song."

surm OTM, lots of different scenarios can play out on the dancefloor. plus it's not as if liking the one type of song precludes liking the other? both can be done well, obv (lots of stuff on those "crying on the dancefloor" ILM list threads that i'm too lazy to link to right now)

this is me if someone played robyn at a party

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn3bvWd5_RY

I did bring up Rihanna for a reason, Tr

I mean this:

_She has described her quasi-emcee "voice" as "kick-ass," but it reads more like pipsqueak—her Nordic tongue doesn't spit so much as gleek... [insert several unilluminating examples] ... Glance at a picture of this five-foot-three, blue-eyed, blonde-haired thumbnail sketch of Scandinavia, and ask yourself: Are you scared yet?_

I mean this is just extraordinarily -- I dunno, conservative. Is Robyn disallowed from copping rap moves because she's white?? Because she's not American ... because she has a high voice ... is it because she doesn't sound like DMX? Because she's short???

This is a massive reach, Tracer. The passage points out that Robyn is describing herself as a bad-ass but the audio (chirpy, high-pitched cutseyness) and the visual (short smiley girl) don't match the attitude displayed.

Robyn's big problem us the same as Rihanna's; she uses her voice the same way on almost every song, making it difficult to ascertain the emotion she's attempting to portray aside from the instances where her particular singing style lines up with the song's emotional center. That is really her biggest problem and the main thing keeping her in her loved-by-indie niche.

people can definitely enjoy all forms of dance songs, i was just responding to lex's 'people harshing the buzz' comment.

xposts

me, surm & lex will be drinking pinot

i love u jordan so much

for real tho i like "dancing on my own" a lot but robyn's more uptempo tracks have always come off to me as thin sonically & cloying emotionally

and really if you want humor in your pop music, listen to mariah carey ffs

I'm drinking pinot now!

I'm going to karaoke in 45 minutes, guys. Need a ride?

yeah, that about sums it up for me too

xp that will also be true, in a moment

I'm going to repeat:

One of my problems with Robyn is how her vocal melodies and lyrics insist on mirrorball tragedy when her voice is clearly designed for giddy show-me-love.

jordan i love that if robyn came on at a party u and i would just leave, and go find lex

why does that crack me up so much ?

More resourceful vocalists can do something with this tension -- she can't.

xpost

alfred, you're looking too deep

she's like if a literal robin was a pop singer? is that the point?

Well, robins can generally sing

and they have pretty plumage

well -- the Swede does too