should i give the grateful dead a chance?

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.

I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.

The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.

For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.

''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''

it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).

Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.

If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.

How is the Grateful Dead any different?

There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.

i so hope this is the guy i had a crush on at school

and how did you carry out yr study? was the sample large enough?

but seriously: yes I agree that by taking drugs you alter experiences to music. But i have never taken drugs and yet i enjoy the dead's music.

Anyway, which drug would make you like the dead? or is it a combination? Can you try it kate and give me some 'feedback'.

i'd also throw in Zappa and the Mothers, but they weren't really hippies

The jams. Yes, you often have to wade through a fair bit of aimless noodling (which still sounds OK, even if the attention does wander a bit). But that's the price you pay for when they're really ON, when the band really kick off, find a great groove or head off in some unexpected direction. It's because they take the risks that they're capable of producing such great stuff when it comes off.

The synthesis they reach of all strands of Amercian music. In a similar way to The Band, but if anything broader, they bring together blues, bluegrass, rock 'n' roll, r&b, country, jazz, folk and avant garde experimentation. They're the closest anyone's come to achieving Gram Parsons' concept of 'cosmic American music'.

The songs. As with the music, they've made a conscious attempt to create/embellish mythic American tales. Whether it's from their own history ('Truckin', 'The Other one'), classic myths ('Casey Jones', 'Staggerlee'), new tales ('Friend of the Devil') or well-chosen covers ('Mama tried').

And yes, they do sound good on drugs as well.

If anyone's not been put off by the 90% slagging they get above, then apart from the recent box set you'd get a good range of what they're about by getting 'Workingman's Dead', 'Live Dead', 'Hundred Year Hall' and the 'Grayfolded' collaboration with John Oswald as mentioned by Chris above.

(i'm usually not this irrational and flat-out dismissive, but if you can't already tell i see no redeeming qualities to the Grateful Dead's music whatsoever)

Thanks, will read---also, I want to check out more of xpost Hunter's post-Garcia songs----see "Collaborations" here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hunter_(lyricist)#:~:text=Robert%20C.%20Christie%20Hunter%20(born&text=Christie%20Hunter%20(born%20Robert%20Burns%3B,work%20with%20the%20Grateful%20Dead.

(Oh and my German cousin-in-law, at least as English-literate as US-born me, says his Rilke translations are excellent.)

Beautiful piece Ned. So many interesting little side trips to explore, flowing into a singular experience, like a dead show itself. You got me to check out the mst3k bit & the 80s twilight zone series theme, both of which I'd never known about, even as a semi-obsessive deadhead about your same age. After a few 90s brushes with the scene from outside the bus, I got deep into the live music archive when I settled into regular cubicle work in the early aughts. Thank you for sharing your unique and unifying perspective in these trying times.

Yer welcome -- the least I could do, glad you appreciated what I brought to the table.

A theme at Bobby's memorial today was that he dreamed of the dead's music enduring and evolving for 300 years.

I enjoyed that too, Ned! A good deep read.

dow, go for the Lauderdale stuff. Hunter and Jim wrote several albums together, in a few different styles -- and it's all good, my favorite being the bluegrass. Carolina Moonrise was my entry point. Headed for the Hills might do it too. I remember a summer when I listened to almost nothing but Black Roses.

Their collaboration started because Jim was working with Ralph Stanley, and gathered the courage to ask Hunter to contribute a few things. They hit it off from there.

A couple of the Hunter+Lauderdale+Stanley ones:

Deep Well of Sadness
Oh Soul!

Thanks, Ned and TheNuNuNu!

Lovely piece!

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/postscript/bob-weirs-feral-radiance

Thanks for that piece Ned, much appreciated to read a thoughtful take from someone standing outside the bus, watching it pass by. And, as noted, very cool diversions you included to those other pieces and side trips. Gave me a lot to think about.

You're most welcome (and dow and TheNuNuNu as well).

can't wait to read these, listening to the one Dead show I always listen to when I'm in the mood for them:Veneta 72/Sunshine Daydream, would recommend for the casuals like myself

question: where does the version of "Mexicali Blues" on "Skeletons In The Closet" come from? is it just the same as the version on Weir's "Ace" solo alb?

(this question spurred by listening to Veneta 72, thanx ums)

yep, it is the same

Ace being basically a defacto Dead album anyway

thx I was very confused for a sec

wondering if it was some lost 7" like the studio Dark Star

Pretty weird in hindsight to include Mexicali in a greatest hits comp

Yeah, it's the one song I reliably skip when listening to the Dead with other people.

Hunter mentioned somewhere that he was in a National Guard unit that entered Watts during the designated Riot or Riots. Wonder if he had a chance to really look at the Watts Towers and if he ever wrote about them.

I don't know if this has been shared here before, but this Mini Wall of Sound project is pretty cool:

https://www.instagram.com/mini_wall_of_sound/

was listening to the Ace episode of the Good Ol' Grateful Deadcast and someone referred to Bob Weir as the "Noam Chomsky of the band", which coming from the guy who sang "Mexicali Blues", is probably not the comparison he'd have wanted at the moment.

So I assume some of you here will appreciate this:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-bVoEIhmk6mOULmXjnrjv1RHmIzwzFuC?usp=drive_link

As described by Mr. Completely/brokensymmetry.art on Bluesky:

Grateful Dead (and friends)
Ace's Studio, Feb-Sept 1975
The Complete Circulating Collection

FLAC or MP3 download
398 audio files, ~26 hours of material & notes PDF

By me, @bourgwick.bsky.social, @jeremyerwin.bsky.social & John H of saveyourface.posthaven.com

And bourgwick aka Jesse Jarnow has added:

we sorted through the utter mess of circulating "blues for allah" tapes, triangulated correct-as-possible dates, re-tracked files with proper titles (including a bunch of songs unique to the sessions & a few unidentified pieces), weeded out many duplicates, & found lots of underloved deliciousness.

i've been digging into the 10-hour highlight reel lol. obviously for sickos, but some revelatory moments, heady jams, insights into the creative process, etc.

this is such a cool thing, not sure I need the whole 26 hours but I'm glad this exists. planning to dig into the highlight reel for sure.

yeah jarnow has put together playlists that let you hear the songs/jams develop in a pretty listener-friendly fashion, very cool

As I think we've mentioned upthread, xgau was good on the early East Coast shows (and passed some inside dope, like Garcia wanted to put Pig and Weir in a "sideband" for keeps. "It never did happen," because they couldn't afford it, didn't have the business model together for a while).
So now he's reposted his vintage Newsday dispatch re the 7/18/72 Joisey City show, replete w link to YouTube post of thee concert (though note what he says about the second set).
https://robertchristgau.substack.com/p/the-big-lookback-the-grateful-dead-865

https://www.powmag.net/p/a-little-deeper-than-usual-joan-didion

cool interview with the early band

yeah they practiced at the Helioport in Sausalito, where the seaplanes are currently parked... the building looks the same

https://gimg.wolfgangs.com/m/large/GAP0009-10-FP/grateful-dead-fine-art-print-1967.jpg

that's a cool photo, thanks for the link!

They say never miss a Sunday show and that was certainly true back on 12/14/80. What a show! Matt Kelly swings by to help even the "Little Red Rooster" hit right.

The first set has killer versions of "Bertha", "Althea", "Loser", "Bird Song" and "Passenger". But man, it's all about the second set that starts with an absolutely raging "Estimated Prophet". If you only have time for part of the show, absolutely dig into this meaty "Estimated > Wheel > Drums > Space > The Other One > Stella Blue" section. Flora Purim and Airto Moreira guest on the "Drums > Space" and really bring something special. Just one of those nights when everything clicked.

nice, bookmarked for later