Stevie Wonder-- C or D?

Deserves a dud for his 80s output tho'.

Dud for inventing the interminable "thanks to..." credit list, on Songs In The Key Of Life.

AND SHE'S ON IT!

life has no more surpries for me now

http://www.mtv.co.uk/channel/mtvuk/news/06062008/423854/stevie_wonder_european_tour

Man, is this guy a great drummer. I'm listening to "Bird of Beauty" and "Have a Talk With God."

"Higher Ground"! He's got a cupla good backbeats on the last album.

He's like Ringo -- he gets a great SOUND from his instrument. You can distinguish him from other players.

He's hanging off the back of the beat even more than Charlie Watts = CLASSIC

A couple really distinctive things I've noticed about his drumming are that a) he tends to bust out with triplets on the cymbal against an otherwise straight-8th base and b) his tendency to use the ride cymbal in the function of the hi-hat, which makes those tricky cymbal rhythms sound clearer than they would played on the hat.

"What'd I Say" = #1 influence on Stevie as a drummer imo

Yeah, that makes sense -- that kind of busyness. He plays fills that I don't think anybody else could get away with on "Bird of Beauty."

Btw, who was the drummer on "What'd I Say"? That mf is my hero.

Also, the hats/ride tend to be mixed LOUD on Stevie's records. Cymbals, cymbals, cymbals.

But yeah, basically Stevie is a monster on the trap.

also he does a lot of overdubbing & multitracking (ie playing just the cymbals, then just the snare, and/or multiple hi-hat parts like on 'i wish')

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

xp: I feel like you just told me Santa Claus doesn't exist.

I believe he also played drums on (and produced) "It's A Shame."

'i wish' is a pretty good one to hear how he does his shit btw, there a lots of times when the hi-hat on the right is playing something different than the one on the left or when there are two-handed fills when both hi-hats are still going. not that he always breaks it down like this, but listening to 'bird of beauty' there are parts where it sounds likely.

But on the real side:

Marvin Gaye began as a drummer too. Say what you want about Berry Gordy, but he knew what we most look forward to in a song.

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

ha, that's because he is literally maintaining the groove on one track and doing oddball fills on another, i'm pretty sure.

not that i'm knocking it, that shit was ahead of its time and he makes it sound great.

'it's a shame' is awesome, i had no idea he played drums on it. the soul band i'm in does that song, i'll have to listen a little bit closer to the drum part.

yup, he at least double-tracked the hi-hats on 'it's a shame', maybe more. check the breakdown.

Jordan droppin' science

yeah this is fab, Jordan; you're helping me hear the songs differently (better, I think); this is the kind of shit I really come to ILM for.

No way I can believe we have to discuss this. Dud? Really? Maybe not even if you've only listened to I Just Called To Say I Love You. The man's body of work is just amazing.

Yeah, thanks, Jordan.

Listening to "Bird of Beauty", the most amazing thing about the drumming is how ably he inserts all his oddball fills right into the middle of the groove, instead of breaking from the groove to fill. He just inserts all these other drums around the maintained pattern.

And however he did it, this is OTM.

Overrated? Not likely. Underrated if anything. Whenever I put on any of the 5 70s albums listed above I find it hard to think of anyone who is not just a better all-rounder, but better individually at playing/writing/singing full-stop.

I got Talking Book and Innervisions in a boot sale.

TB has Superstition, but too many ballads for me.

I'd play Innervisions anytime.

Any Time.

that's more a S&D case, isn't it? no doubt he'll always be classic for all he did in the 70s.

Guys, breathing is overrated. Dud.

Anybody who says D should have their vote taken away, just like the idiots who didnt vote for Rickey Henderson for the HOF.

Ah thanks, I'll try your version ! Never managed to get into that album although I love all the ones before (and even some after... well, Hotter and parts of Square...).

You could even stick in "Kesse Ye Lolo De Ye" of the latter half of "Voyage to India" as something to give Side A some more space if you wanted.

I'd miss "Ecclesiastes" in that version.

So after listening to this version I like it ! Basically all ballads/smooth songs.
I could do without "Race Babbling" which is fun but a bit silly and far too long for its own good.

I could never do without 'Race Babbling'!

Just a heads-up: There's some good discussion of Stevie Wonder by Hanif Abdurraqib and Fred Moten on the most recent Millennials Are Killing Capitalism Podcast

https://www.patreon.com/posts/hanif-abdurraqib-51211207 - starting around 45:40

anyone else look at the cover of Music From My Mind and thought damn this dude got some tiny hands??

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/11/arts/music/stevie-wonder-sing-your-song-as-we-fix-our-nations-broken-heart-review.html

Caramanica loved the NY show on the Fix America's broken heart tour , and I saw and enjoyed the Baltimore gig last night. Barack and Michelle Obama escorted him out to his piano and keyboards, he had a large band, a large string section, and the Morgan State (Baltimore) gospel choir on some songs. He sounded great on many of his classics. Yea this 74 year old took a break and had Shelea McDonald sing for a bit . His chatter before and between songs in Baltimore was either heartfelt or jokey. Some was designed to encourage folks to vote for Harris. He encouraged a few too many sing-alongs, but when he was on, he was on. Plus told a few interesting stories about growing up in Detroit and how that inspired his song Village Ghettoland , and how hearing Beatles “Michelle” inspired another song of his.

sounds glorious

Man, I wish, he's playing here and Milwaukee but there is just too much going on.

thinking about taking my Mom to see this in Milwaukee

I caught the NYC show too and agree it was great. Only the second time I've been to one of Stevie's shows (first was at Taste of Chicago in 2008) and his voice has held up really well. Tickets were surprisingly not ridiculously high, possibly due to the nature of the tour.

I saw him once in the mid to late 80s and now twice this century and I do recommend seeing him .

Juggled my schedule and now I am going with my family. The last time we saw Stevie Wonder was over 15 years ago, also at Taste of Chicago. Now we get to go again. Well, three of us. My younger daughter was only one and in a stroller last time. This time she will be 17 and getting ready to choose a college. I'm looking forward to it, even if the experience will be weighed down in the back of the mind by the fear it could be one of the last nights I am happy and hopeful for the foreseeable future. I'll try to keep it together.

Glad you and some of your family can go. Stevie at his best live (when not joking around or having sing-alongs) is still amazing and he's focusing on some great songs from his catalogue on this tour.

I saw him nine years ago and before the show, I made a list in my head of some of my favourite songs of his that I thought would be great if he played but long shots (album tracks, basically), one of them was "Heaven Is 10 Zillion Light Years Away" and to my utter complete shock, he actually played it (according to setlist.fm, it was the live debut of that song although they also say that he performed it back in... 1974), I was sobbing throughout the song, just tears streaming down my face, still to this day one of the most treasured memories I have

Wow, what an amazing night. Stevie sounds great, the crowd was great, the set was great - "Do I Do"! - and there's something to be said for "I Just Called to Say I Love You," an objectively bad song that sounds like it took five minutes to write, performed with 30 people on stage and an entire arena singing along. Which is to say, I liked the joking and sing-alongs! Also, Stevie in upbeat yolo mode was a hoot. He climbed on a piano, danced with his lame protege, told stories about growing up, and nothing beats a septuagenarian legend talking about America and what we can do when we work together, finally declaring "we built this bitch!" Also, he seemed moved to tears by the presence of Jesse Jackson.

Was Jesse Jackson onstage? He's been ailing from Parkinson's disease but I have no idea if he's still doing relatively okay.

i don't really get the status of "i just called to say i love you" as so hated - the key change is a bit much and the album version is definitely too long but it's pretty endearing overall, even if it's far from his greatest work? i guess probably more annoying if you lived through it being inescapable (i assume)?

The song was pretty inescapable when it was released as a single (it was #1 in the UK) but I think a lot of the criticism is because it's by Stevie Wonder. If the song was written and performed by Paul McCartney then it would be seen as mediocre at worst in his back catalogue, not particularly good or bad, more a reflection of mid 80s. But it's Stevie Wonder and it's his worst song. But if you're a songwriter and that's your worst song, then you're doing pretty well.

It's not even a terrible song and unlike a lot of truck driver key changes, it gives him the opportunity to push his voice a bit in the last chorus. The cha-cha-cha right at the end is unnecessary and grating though.

I actually quite like IJCTSILY, but I also really like Ebony & Ivory, bar the lyrics. I think Stevie is gifted enough to sell even subpar material (the rest of the Woman In Red soundtrack is fairly gruelling however).

That concert sounds amazing , Josh. Do I Do really is a fantastic track!

If the song was written and performed by Paul McCartney then it would be seen as mediocre at worst in his back catalogue

it's a similar sort of charm to "wonderful christmastime" really, though it's a bit more tuneful than that

I also love Wonderful Christmastime

Was Jesse Jackson onstage?

He was seated in the audience nearby. The last time I saw him out and about was at Aretha's final concert in 2017. He was standing and laughing and waving at her. Last night he could barely move. Factor in his age (83) and between that and Parkinson's things did not seem great, which is why Stevie was probably so moved by his presence.

john prine did a great cover, heartbreaking stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSalNdbnyrA

Like I wrote, I don't personally hate the song, its corniness and contemporaneous ubiquity aside. Stevie makes everything better. But there are lots of reasons I consider (at the very least his recording) objectively bad. There are the chord changes, which are pretty boring and obvious, more objectionable from one of the most gloriously sophisticated songwriters of all time. Then there's the fact that it was clearly played by/written on one of those chord generating cheapo keyboards we all had at the time, right down to the "cha-cha-cha," which was one of the preset end fills. Then there's the key change, which is also lame and obvious, as well as the sentiments, also lame and obvious, however proudly so. Thankfully, Stevie had written and played a million good songs by that point. The only thing that would have made "Love You" worse is if it ended up his late-career "My Ding-a-ling," but instead it simply sounds like an easy, lazy, harmless layup. Which, again, is mostly accentuated by it being by Stevie Wonder, who everyone knows can do better.

Plus, he sang it with Clair Huxtable.

I'm with Josh on that song.

x-post - Jesse Jackson was also at the suburban DC Aretha Franklin show I saw in 2017 and was seated in the crowd and waved briefly, but he didn't look that well health-wise.

oh no! earnest song! oh no! this song is actually fine imo

the whole purported terribleness thing is so warmed-over as to be boring see: jack black in high fidelity

I realize humanity has proven there's no bottom to its stupidity and conspiracy-buying paranoia, so perhaps this shouldn't be a surprise.

tbf most of the claims are facetious but still...