Big & Rich: Album of the Decade?

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the press release says the Bad Brains guys HAVE been in the funk mob, not that all these people will be at the show.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link

So I'm finally getting around to listening to this.

Is genre-crossing all it takes to become the album of the year these days?

And didn't Kid Rock kind of do this already?


I don't get it, Tuesday, 28 September 2004 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't think of another album that came out this year that even comes close to this album for sheer enjoyment. I just listened to it again tonight and if anything I like it even more now. I STILL get chills when I hear Rollin' and Save A Horse. Real honest to goodness CHILLS. That doesn't happen that often to me.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link

noice

big chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 03:00 (nineteen years ago) link

And didn't Kid Rock kind of do this already?

Yes he did. But Kid Rock is getting very hard to defend, because a lot of groups (Big and Rich especially) are doing what Kid Rock tried to do, except a billion times better.

My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Wow, I finally got around to listening to this and I must say it is not my style at all. I almost couldn't bear to finish it.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link

This record is anti-everything my roommate likes, so I would love the album for that alone.

My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 22:00 (nineteen years ago) link

big & rich really aren't all that similar to kid rock. you could make some pretty nice segues between his songs and theirs and back again, but they're a close-harmony vocal group at heart, and he's, well, i'm not sure exactly what he is when you boil him down to his core, but he's not a close-harmony vocal group, i'm pretty damn sure of that.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I am so scared to investigate this record.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Thus far this is the only sense anyone's talked about this record.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, that review did indeed make me wonder.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:45 (nineteen years ago) link

This album is why god invented file sharing. I downloaded two of the big singles everyone was talking about and knew right away it wasn't for me. Once upon a time I might have bought the album.

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:53 (nineteen years ago) link

that grauniad review doesn't want NOVELTY, it doesn't want token nods towards other genres, it wants REAL innovation, REAL depth of understanding and considered, measured interpretations that borrow from the authentic CORE of the genre, not its most visible excesses. i mean it's like jeff koons thinks he's really michaelangelo!

m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:06 (nineteen years ago) link

ha ha, that review in TEH guardian made me laugh when it came out. Somone pointed out it can almost be read both as sarcastic condemnation OR as the widest-eyed accolade ever: viz

That's Big Kenny and John Rich, with rappin' sidekick Cowboy Troy, who's black, which of course, is treated as a huge novelty. Billed as "country without prejudice" - in other words, country that recognises that other genres actually exist - this monumentally straightforward record's claims to innovation are like asking a woman to be wildly appreciative that her husband just about manages to cook a fry-up once a month. Horse of a Different Color sounds like Billy Ray Cyrus driving a juggernaut - that's how innovative it is. If you squint really hard you might just be able to convince yourself there's something faintly homoerotic about the whole ghastly enterprise, but that's pushing it. Actually, peek inside the booklet and you will find Kenny and John wearing Wild West-style dresses and, natch, ironic expressions. Like the Bush twins at the MTV awards, this is arch-conservatism in a half-hearted search for cool. Big? Almost certainly and hence, quite probably, rich too. Not, by any means, clever.

FIVE STARS

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:17 (nineteen years ago) link

it's like a zooming-out mandelbrot set of smirks.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:24 (nineteen years ago) link

i thought maybe the five grey stars were all unfilled, ie. nought stars

m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:38 (nineteen years ago) link

sadly the dance mixes don't do big & rich justice. more rednex than what a big & rich dance mix could be. a let-down

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Mitch is right - it was a zero-star rating.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:54 (nineteen years ago) link

My opinion? Big Jim Jehosophat and Fatbelly Jones did this sort of stuff so much better in the '70s.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:00 (nineteen years ago) link

My opinion? That review is pretty funny except that it pretends to be about the record, which it isn't. I can understand not liking the record, maybe, if your prejudices go that way, but that review was clearly written after listening to the first two songs ("Wild West Show" isn't really a very good song to my ears, I've already said that) and a big bile build-up after seeing the Republican Nat'l Convention on the telly. It's so much fun to hate Americans, I do it too all the time! But note the lack of specifics and figure it out for yrselves etc.

Fatbelly Jones. Marcello...well, there's nothing to say here.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Also Peter Watts of Time Out and sometimes of this parish said it was a one-listen novelty, just like Goldie Lookin Chain and Jet.

I sent for a copy of the Big and Rich album and have listened to it.

Having done so, I agree with Mr Peschek's conclusions.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:06 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost - Yes, but Alan's point is that the star rating is in a state of Heisenberg uncertainty until you actually get to the end of the review.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:09 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post to MC

Like I said, it's okay to dislike the record. But you cannot "agree with Mr Peschek's conclusions," because he does not actually conclude anything. He just takes some cheap shots, ha ha wot a larf. It's adorable, just the kind of thing I need to confirm my favorite Guardian stereotypes, but it's not a review. I'd love it if you'd care to review the record, Mr. Carlin, because I know you'd back up your dislike with actual evidence so I could try to understand it.

It isn't even my favorite country record of the year, but it's NOT the Bush twins either.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:12 (nineteen years ago) link

The star rating is clearly zero stars, as would have been evident had you read the review in its original published context.

I do admit, however, that the website design and colour schemes could lead to ambiguity.

So the solution is for the Guardian Unlimited webmasters to redesign their graphics accordingly such that a zero-star rating can be interpreted as such, rather than a five-star rating.

I plan to return to considering this record on my blog, my arguments supported by quantifiable fact, in due course.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:18 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost - Yes, but Alan's point is that the star rating is in a state of Heisenberg uncertainty until you actually get to the end of the review.

So if we put Pastor Troy in a sealed container with a vial of poison gas...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:19 (nineteen years ago) link

"considering" haha

...and yet, I'll read it. I'm curious about Fatbelly Jones, I guess.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:21 (nineteen years ago) link

that grauniad review doesn't want NOVELTY, it doesn't want token nods towards other genres, it wants REAL innovation, REAL depth of understanding and considered, measured interpretations that borrow from the authentic CORE of the genre, not its most visible excesses.

best definition of rockism evah.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:23 (nineteen years ago) link

the blashpeme thread is elsewhere, folks...

frankE (frankE), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, stop taking my name in vain.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:42 (nineteen years ago) link

better in theory than in practice

Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:02 (nineteen years ago) link

So, what kind of stuff *does* that Guardian doofus consider truly "innovative" or "clever" or whatever? I'm really curious. He's not completely off-base; in fact, he repeated a couple things I said upthread (about racial tokenism, et. al.), and maybe in my *Voice review if you count the homoerotica (which you hardly have to bend over backwards to notice; it's totally in your face, but whatever.) But Matt is right (except obviously about the great "Wild Wild West," still) - this twit gives no indication at all that he listened to the record (not even the first two songs, as far as I'm concerned.) What exactly is Billy Ray Cyrus-like about them? He never says. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's never heard Billy Ray Cyrus either. Actually, I kinda get the idea he just plains HATES MUSIC. So to hell with him.

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:12 (nineteen years ago) link

(oops. "Wild West Show," I meant. God what a gorgeous song.)

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Chuck, i've never heard you say a song is "gorgeous" before. I think you're wrong, its verses are as "dull" to me as Allison Moorer's are to you and the Native American tokenism is foul and boring and the only good thing is the "Hey Ya" part, but I just didn't think that word was really part of your vocabulary.

There's so much more homoerotica in Montgomery Gentry than Big and Rich, even though I wouldn't put it past the latter to kiss onstage. And Brooks and Dunn are the homoeroticest of all.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link

And David Peschek co-founded Uncut, I think. He seems to like Nellie McKay, Sondre Lerche, and Simian. He's one of the world's biggest experts on Jeff Buckley.

So, y'know, whatever.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link

*i hate everything* is my fave single right now. george strait is punk rock's newest star.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:31 (nineteen years ago) link

>He's one of the world's biggest experts on Jeff Buckley.<

holy fucking shit. that explains a LOT.

I say gorgeous WAY too often, Matt (especially when talking about dark metal and stuff like that) - where the heck have you been? "Wild West Show" is gorgeous like Ennio Morricone is gorgeous. Dark, too!

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

And I mean, it's quite possibly the most SPACIOUS (as in white open) song I've heard on the radio this year. Timbaland should be taking notes (and I wouldn't put it past him, to be honest.)

(PS: btw, Matt, are you gonna rewrite Bersuit or not? I need it now!! I asked you in an email a couple days ago, but I never heard back....)

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:24 (nineteen years ago) link

"I Hate Everything" vs "Holidays in the Sun"

dave q, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

haha, I guess my brother has kept my copy of Stairway too long. doesn't make me like "WWShow" though.

I sometimes wonder if one's judgment of musical "gorgeous" has anything to do with one's aesthetic senses about women/men, visual art, etc. then of course I have a beer and put on some gilberto gil and suddenly my head stops hurting, because his stuff from the late 1960s/early 1970s is the fucking epitome of dark and gorgeous to me.

yeah chuck I'm writing it tonight, I never got your email!!!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

as in WIDE open, I meant. wow.

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

haha nice one

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

"White open spaces" sounds like it should be the slogan of Protect Arizona Now.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link

White open wasn't intentional? Dammit! You shoulda just played along.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Come back Men Without Hats, all is forgiven! Come back Beck, Rednex, Ten Pole Tudor and countless forgotten Saturday Night Live music genre comedy sketches... Come back Del Amitri, come back The Rutles! Hell, come back Momus circa 'Folktronic'! Anything rather than this 'album of the decade'.

I once suggested that 'this year's irony is next year's sincerity'. But who wants to hang around to hear those knowing post-modern genre winks we messed with last decade turning from hick-ironic to slick-moronic? Irony is interesting while it's ambivalent, it's fuzzy, it's undecided, it's in crisis, it's vulnerable, it's conflicted. When it hardens into comedy and routine, when it becomes non-negotiable and invulnerable, it's simply unbearable, like being stuck in a room with a bunch of tall economics graduates who decided to do comedy instead.

The whole sound of this record is dismal. Those horrible stadium drums, the cheesy quiz show organ skits, the silly voices, the session musician power chords, the clever-clogs calculatedness and certainty of it all... There isn't a single quirk or mistake, no crack for light or water or soul to get in through. No strangeness, no beauty, no style, nothing but The Concept.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link

*checks watch* 200 messages by midnight?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Nah, de gustibus nil disputandum est.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Concepts on their own and on record sound pretty gd to me.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Momus, in another attempt to be the wittiest guy in the room, makes a post in which he criticizes an intentionally imperfect album for being too perfect, and calls it a comedy album in the most humorless prose known to man. Dude, seriously, Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link

And yet I'm sounding like I'm really wanting to get involved in this as a debate when I don't, not really. I suspect I'm going to like the Charlie Robison even more than this, and then B&R will only be my #3 country record of the year. Carry on, y'all, I'll look at this thread in a couple of days and have a nice laugh.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I was serious about Men Without Hats, Rednex and Ten Pole Tudor. Conceptual novelty records those may be, but there's some kind of eccentricity or mystery to them. Perhaps unintentionally, they crackle with pathos and soul. Is it because Rednex is sung by non-English speakers, or because they're all from the past? Is that why they somehow fail to be as shoddy and calculated as they planned to be, as exploitative and disposable? Big and Rich don't fail at that. They hit their target and achieve their goal. It's for this reason -- their awful efficiency -- that The Doopees and Flat Eric tower over them.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:06 (nineteen years ago) link


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