It's pretty much Sun Ra's fault (and probably intention)
what is?
people aren't always listening in a way that prepares them for what is there in the wide stretches of Sun Ra's music that are neither...
i am wondering which wide stretches you are talking about? what way do you think people listen to sun ra?
honestly, i don't think many people listen to sun ra at all. i mean, everybody pays lip service but sometimes i think i am the only person buying sun ra albums at the record stores i shop at. they never restock and stuff never goes off the shelves ...
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 23:23 (nineteen years ago) link
He created a very a strong image, obviously. That's what I mean. He brought that into the foreground. (And I'm not saying I don't like the spectacle aspect: I generally have loved the Arkestra's concert spectacles, and especially did when Sun Ra was still alive.) I think he was very interested in being deceptive (or maybe just appearing to be deceptive). He talked about his being a Gemini and that dual nature, and how you don't necessarily get what you see. I think he might have been happy that people would come to his music with false expectations. I don't think any of this is original. I probably just haven't been very clear. (I'm taking a lot of this from impressions of Space is the Place, either directly or indirectly.)
i mean, everybody pays lip service but sometimes i think i am the only person buying sun ra albums at the record stores i shop at. they never restock and stuff never goes off the shelves ...
Hmmmm. He seems to sell in Philadelphia.
― RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 23:33 (nineteen years ago) link
haha yeah you should hear him on the ark & the ankh, the interview disc with henry dumas.
at one point he is all "you can never know a real person, just their image ... it's like presidential elections, you never vote for the person, just for their image" and henry dumas is like "so why do you choose the image you choose" and sun ra says in his good natured drawl (so you can almost hear the sly smile!) "well, you know, everybody has to be themselves, and i just got to be me!"
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 23:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― RS (Catalino) LaRue (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 23:47 (nineteen years ago) link
Dude, I didn't know that! I do know that Sun Ra was a big fan, or maybe I assumed. One of the things I like so much about Sun Ra's music is that he really synthesized the history of jazz, or his love of jazz music, and warped it and did his own thing with it, and continued to push it. The big band arrangements are really suggestive of the glory years of the '20s in a lot of ways (the start-stops, harmonically, structurally), even as the band got more 'out' it was still BIG, and very meticulously & smartly arranged (a la Fletcher's arranger Don Redman). I think that's why the music continues to be exciting in a live setting w/o Sun Ra's 'interplanetary' (ie weirdo) prescence. It has the beauty of the spontaneity and the telepathic improv relationships between players but also the composition signposts of Henderson or Ellington in that it's very thoughfully composed in a very studied jazz way. I guess the word 'jazz' can be interchanged with 'American music' (or maybe that's what vahid might say!). I think if you say anything about Sun Ra, he knew what he was doing or what he was trying to do, nothing's tossed off.
My theory is that this is why the players stuck around so long. Not necessarily b/c they bought into the space/intergalactic spirituality, but b/c the music was consistently interesting to play, complex and spontaneous, and dependent on the individual personality of each star player (like in Ellington's band; Cootie Williams had parts written for him, and his solos were written into the music b/c of the personality of his playing).
― mcd (mcd), Thursday, 9 June 2005 01:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 9 June 2005 02:42 (nineteen years ago) link
There were some interesting loose ends in the last posts to this thread. Unfortunatly, I don't have any knowledge of the areas being brought up, but maybe someone has something to add?
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 6 August 2005 14:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 28 October 2005 08:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 October 2005 10:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Friday, 28 October 2005 10:35 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm pretty sure they'll get to show it on BBC two at some point so maybe we can all talk about this a bit more then.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 29 October 2005 07:53 (eighteen years ago) link
"Fate" is kind of typical of Arkestra stuff from Chicago '60/'61, a mix of influences - Latin/ exotica/ big band/ some bop - all nice stuff, that track "Space Mates" (a flute/piano ballad) is especially good.
"When Sun Comes Out" is an odd sort of record. First track is ca. 4 minutes of gongs and assorted tinklings and patterings with a female vocal towards the end which suggests Sonny owned a few Yma Sumac records! The second track sounds like it was recorded at the bottom of a mineshaft - a very deep mineshaft - but the rest of the album is very professionally recorded (it's in stereo!), with none of the heavy reverb and sonic jiggery-pokery of other albums recorded around the same time (NYC '62-'63). It's not as "out there" as contemporaneous Sun Ra recordings but still pushes a few boundaries and has THE definitive version of "We Travel the Spaceways", which lurches menacingly and unsteadily ever onwards like an evil robot in cheesy 50s sci-fi movie.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 13:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 13:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― terry lennox. (gareth), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― mcd (mcd), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/w/Sun-Ra?v=3oJZgZqG8CM&search=sun%20ra
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 1 February 2006 19:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Diddumsismus (Dada), Friday, 13 October 2006 13:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Friday, 13 October 2006 14:29 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 October 2006 17:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― HUNTA-V (vahid), Thursday, 19 October 2006 18:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 October 2006 18:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Brakhage (brakhage), Thursday, 19 October 2006 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 October 2006 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/ourtown/060929/sunra/
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 19 October 2006 18:30 (seventeen years ago) link
btw I am super-excited to see my first ever Arkestra show on Saturday.
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 October 2006 18:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― jaxon (jaxon), Thursday, 19 October 2006 18:47 (seventeen years ago) link
Sat Oct 21 Palace Theatre Main Hall3pm: doors4:20 Residual Echoes5:10 Future Pigeon6:10 Watts Prophets7:10 Money Mark8:10 Six Organs of Admittance9:10 White Magic10:10 OM****11:20 Sun Ra Arkestra****
I have no idea what they'll sound like, but they've still got some of the original players and this has pretty much been my only chance to see them.
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 October 2006 19:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 October 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 October 2006 19:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 19 October 2006 19:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― R_S (RSLaRue), Thursday, 19 October 2006 19:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 October 2006 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link
― R_S (RSLaRue), Thursday, 19 October 2006 20:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Friday, 20 October 2006 08:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― R_S (RSLaRue), Saturday, 11 November 2006 15:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Saturday, 11 November 2006 15:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 22:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 19 April 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 4 May 2007 01:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― filthy dylan, Friday, 4 May 2007 06:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― moonship journey to baja, Friday, 4 May 2007 06:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 11 May 2007 22:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― Milton Parker, Friday, 11 May 2007 23:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 11 May 2007 23:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 11 May 2007 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― Xochipilli, Saturday, 12 May 2007 00:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 12 May 2007 00:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 12 May 2007 00:42 (seventeen years ago) link