pitchfork

it's a good song, but hardly the best thing they did in the 90s (see: kool thing, mote, bull in the heather, the diamond sea and hits of sunshine, just to start with).

There's too much of that going on with this list ... picking the "underappreciated" song instead of the more obvious hit. "Say it Ain't So?" "Only Shallow?"

Only Shallow kickstarted that album in the most shocking possible way. Great choice I think...

I'm not gonna go through this, is there literally one metal song? And it's Danzig?

The most glaring omission was "Let The Rhythm Hit Em."

ban all pitchfork writes from this board for allowing biggie to place outside of the top 10

Yeah no metal wtf.. Where's "Holy Wars???"

at least aaliyah made it into the top 10

I'm way more tired of "Say It Ain't So" and "Loser" than "Gold Soundz". Those two songs are still being overplayed on the radio.

like seriously not even being a pedantic "wot u don't listen to carcass" troll about it, but like

what's up dudes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBfygUiS50g&ob=av2e

not much yall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESjyB8EMw4w

can i play too?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkFqg5wAuFk

can i just
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rloidlFbi4w

i mean
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaysTVcounI

but then also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPNFVj-pISU

it's not exactly like theres some shortage of metal that crossed over into the alternasphere in the 90s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3LAFJbKyY

(a song I don't even really like that much)

I'd have to check, but it's probably the worst song on the black album

That's cool, but Holy Wars is a better song than all of those..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4OPQBNXdfc

and..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPUe1nv4gIk&ob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZMXR-a6fg

goodnight little dude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hglVqACd1C8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALPH86ybA6U

I like that melvins track. body count too

but yeah, even the most indiest, most p4k friendly strains of hard/heavy/noisy music got short shrift. (billstevejim otm - no melvins wtf?) like not only is indie streamlined into its least confrontational, most comforting strains, the slack is taken up by expansion into pop genres that are heavily covered and well-represented everywhere.

i am one of these people who will find something to pout about no matter what.

if this stuff is really annoying to you (any of you), and barely covers the music you are genuinely interested in, then why bother paying attention to pitchfork?

billstevejim otm - no melvins wtf?

That was Whiney.. I was bummed out by no Megadeth or Slayer or Eric B & Rakim.

i think you just broke the code

xp

it's a sincere question. it wasn't meant as a "won't you just stfu about pitchfork already" post

i don't know. in part because it (pitchfork) so dominates the discourse, and i'm interested not just in music, but in the conversation about music. by that i don't just mean talking about music w my friends, which i do all the time, but the way that cultural "tastemakers" process the idea of music. and ilm is big part of my connection to that ongoing critical dialogue about music. therefore, what ilm talks about, i pay attention to. therefore, pitchfork. and beyond that, i can't pretend that i'm not indie at heart. a big part of my sense of what music is and can mean was formed in the mid 80s by bands like the replacements, husker du, sonic youth, big black, butthole surfers, etc. gotta be true to my roots.

nicely done.

I think it also goes back to what seandalai said upthread, that we care about Pitchfork in a way that we don't necessarily about Rolling Stone or NME, "it's part of the information universe with which we associate ourselves. When they screw up we complain because they could conceivably have done better."

so you feel that pitchfork represents your taste - or should represent your tastes?

yes to some extent, for me, at least more than other review sites except maybe the wire

no. maybe i'm misstating (by habitual rhetorical overkill) the idea that any of this is really annoying to me. it isn't. not at all. i think the pitchfork list is cool for what it is, and don't really care about it anyway. i guess what i'm operating from is a sense that "my music" - the fucked-up, bloody-knuckled strain of indie rock that i've always been most in love with - has become increasingly marginal and even moribund. this makes me feel old and grumpy.

xpost

Another glaring omission

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gUFO9vRH_A

marginal to what, what pitchfork covers? i mean, it isn't like pitchfork is the cable company that has a local/regional monopoly. you can find music criticism in other places.

lol at galling lack of cannibal corpse

I don't think any of us knows ALL the writers at Pitchfork, but most of us know a few (and it's a different few for everyone), so there's definitely an interest that goes beyond just that of the normal reader. When they, as a collective, fuck up a list in a very little or a very big way, it's kind of like we're slinking around at the back of the bar, laughing with the rest of your friends about how your one other mutual friend is totally blowing it onstage doing a karaoke version of "Total Eclipse of the Heart."

or is this just one of those threads where people complain about the results of some poll, the way grumpy old people complain how expensive everything is nowadays - because it is a way of bonding with others?

I think what it comes down to, for myself at least, is that Pitchfork is understood to be a tastemaker and canon builder, and that lists like this represent the construction of the 90s canon (for example). People are annoyed or pissed that Pitchfork--for, pick you favorite indie-baiting reason--edited their favorites out of the canon.

the 90s canon for a particular affinity group, it isn't creating _the_ canon

i think it comes down to this

if you care about music crit you care about pitchfork & their lists & what they review & how they review it & what score it gets

if you don't care about music crit you likely don't care about any of those things

Well of course, but this is ILM--isn't is understood that the "particular affinity group" of Pitchfork is going to have a vast overlap with the "particular affinity group" of ILM?

I just think it's fun.. isn't that enough?

i'm pretty sure i'm otm and we can move on

fuckin guy

i care somewhat about music crit, but i don't really care about most of the music pitchfork covers - and most of that is bands/records from my youth, and i don't really care about whether this or that major/large indie label record or song by a band of people i don't know personally makes some website's top 200 of a previous decade.

re, sarah: oh yeah, i know. again, i'm not really saying that pitchfork would better if it were different, or raging about the fact that the shit i'm interested in doesn't get adequate coverage. though they're so occasional as to seem dead, termbo do a decent job at hitting like 25% of it, and mosurak/still single bats clean-up for like half of the rest. if i were truly madly deeply serious about the remainder, i'd be reading the wire, decibel and other forums more regularly. but i'm not, and maybe i'm just trying to steer discussion here towards a corner of the indie universe that doesn't get much attention, even on ilm. like how many people post in rolling punk or les rallizes denudes threads?

this is my revenge.

So I guess the question becomes this: we're all enjoying ourselves to varying degrees for various reasons--why are YOU on this thread afaik xp

sarahel is playing the morbs role iirc -- but with more sanity of course

contenderizer: dusted is pretty solid

z_b: curiosity? maybe unhealthy? idk

i think you, sarah, are distinctly and perhaps (close to) uniquely outside the venn diagram, relative to most of the regular p4k thread coffee klatch/bitch fest. i mean, you are just not sufficiently indie.

no offense...

imidswtpitbh

lol - i am insufficiently indie it is true! thank you all for sincerely answering my sincere questions. i feel like i have learned something v important about ilx tonight.