YOU TOTALLY MISSED THE ILX HEAVY ROCK/METAL ALBUM POLL COUNTDOWN, SUCKA (CLICK FOR A RECAP)

11 Burzum · Filosofem (1996) (905 Points, 20 votes)
http://www.metal-archives.com/images/3/8/2/382.jpg

oh ffs

I can't wait to see the list of voters. I don't even care about their ballots...i just want to know who they were.

again this is why metal is troublesome, people lionize shit like this and make rationalizations for it that are only really comparable to rationalizations made by people who really really dig super misogynistic hip-hop

Kerr is always asking me to defend Burzum on ILX, so let me just say once and for all: Varg is a terrible racist and a horrific disgusting human being, but I'm fascinated with BSDM like film critics are fascinated by Leni Riefenstahl or Birth of a Nation. It's incredibly striking, fascinating music and Varg is a really weird + bizarre figure. It could just be that my repulsion glands aren't functioning correctly, but it's really compelling shit imho.

Can someone post a track from Filosofem for us?

To be honest, can't really disagree with Mordy. Some individuals are unbelievably repulsive, but some of the music is unbelievably compelling.

Check the tracks poll results. I remember something from this album being in there. xp

I know what you mean. I have a hard time justifying it to myself when I listen to Wagner, but that's not very often. xp

Still, Wagner never iced a motherfucker.

Wagner was friends with Jewish composers IIRC -- his reputation as an uber-anti-semite is not deserved. Blame his nazi nephew or grandson or whatever.

Yeah, but it's not like I'm trying to justify to myself, "Oh, he's horrible but the music is so good," (which I have to do when I listen to Wagner too). It's more like, "Oh my god, he's so horrible and that's what is so freaking interesting here." Like his music is clearly coming from a demented brilliant mind. I don't separate it out from him personally.

So, the top ten?

I was going to say, the whole thing with Wagner is complicated and not nearly as clear-cut as the appropriation of his music by the Nazis would lead you to believe; there's more evidence directly damning Orff than Wagner and even there info is contradictory and muddled.

Not all that much is contradictory, muddled or uncertain with Varg.

^^^ HI DERE OTM as usual

didn't vote here but for ilxor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXu8M6q6v84

i struggle mightily w this cuz i dig some burzum as music, but can't even begin to condone any kind of support for the motherfucker (or for the motherfuckers that support the motherfucker)

like, Wagner wrote an anti-Semetic essay while possibly having Jewish heritage and telling ppl that his closest friendship was with a Jewish dude namd Samuel Lehrs

it's all kind of a big fucked-up mess; a good chunk of what he was doing looks like pandering to get people to stop patronizing his rivals

Yeah, but it's not like I'm trying to justify to myself, "Oh, he's horrible but the music is so good," (which I have to do when I listen to Wagner too). It's more like, "Oh my god, he's so horrible and that's what is so freaking interesting here." Like his music is clearly coming from a demented brilliant mind. I don't separate it out from him personally.

It's definitely more the former for me - I think that's because the music doesn't seem particularly... expressive, if that's the right word? Especially the ambient instrumental bits. I'm still conflicted for sure but that's why I find it easier to appreciate the music.

xp yeah from what I've read his essay was half piss-taking, a quarter actual anti-semitism and a quarter trying to get his music sold at a time when Jewish composers were very popular.

He wrote some anti-semitic music too including a piece based on the Grimm's Fairy Tale "The Jew Among Thorns"

#10 would be nice (maybe?) about now.

He was also a massive socialist

I don't doubt he was anti-semitic, just not rapidly or any more so than Europeans of the time in general.

I wrote a paper on BSDM + queer theory in my MA program last year if anyone is interested. lol.

I just got an email from Herman, apparently he's not going to post the top ten until Johnny and everyone else have a 100-post serious discussion about the merits of these Burzum albums.

I guess we'll never know, then.

j/k, I think Herman's making dinner or something.

I don't doubt he was anti-semitic, just not rapidly or any more so than Europeans of the time in general.

^^^ this. I think his musical innovations and the appropriation of his work by the Nazis amplify anti-Semetic threads in his work that were largely commonplace during the time period; Joseph Conrad had similar issues with Africans circa Heart of Darkness and divergent opinion on him as irredeemable racist vs product of his times exist there, only Conrad was lucky enough not to have his work picked up and championed by the Klan.

This list is extremely dubious. i mean, you gotta be kidding me.

^^^ that (xpost)

That's why I can't wait to see the names of all these "ballots" that were submitted. This poll is turning out to be about as legit as an Iranian election.

this poll is reinforcing my perception in high school of metal fans as total assholes

Ive never sb'd anybody, but I am going to really make up for that once I see the ballots.

Your middle finger must be purple or it doesn't count.

There's what, about a core of 10 of us commenting? I find it hard to believe all the lurkers would skew obscurist rather than populist. No poll on ILM has ever worked that way.

10 Guns n' Roses · G N' R Lies (1988) (905 Points, 20 votes)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Guns_and_Roses_GNR_Lies.jpg

sike ... sorry

Oh man, I'm getting banned when my ballot gets posted.

well, "monotheist = top 12 metal album" does not exactly = skewing populist

this poll is reinforcing my perception in high school of metal fans as total assholes

I should really explain this: not only some of the album placements, but the way those album placements are getting called out

I've refrained from commenting as a. I've been away for much of the past week and b. my ballot went astray, so I don't gave as much investment in the poll. Though looking at the results it wouldn't have made much difference. My top 3 Raw Power 2 Ace of Spades 1 No Sleep til' Hammersmith.

Mordy, you're safe. We know you're a real person.

Anyone wanna take a stab at the top ten albums with a guess?

I don't understand how these album placements getting called out are any different than any other ILX poll where people complain about the results?

Like look at the GAPDYX in the title of the thread!

Any top 50/top 100 ILM poll usually can be predicted with 70% or greater accuracy before even being listed. It's just a matter of where stuff falls. This one just smells fishy, even going down into the 100-200 and 200-300 range.

I realize I'm exercising poor form here, but yes. I am formally questioning the validity of these results.

so this is one way in which it's different, Mordy

and it's wholly spurious and incredibly shitty

Oh, I'm surprised you guys feel that way. Is that a lot of albums placed lower than we thought they would? (Like Number of the Beast def doesn't seem right.)

these results really don't look fishy to me at all assuming the main voting bloc was metal fans (and i know there are lots of those on ilx even if they're quiet about it most of the time)