Sacred cows from the dance canon that are now irrelevant

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Everyone who is dissing "French Kiss" is mental. Best trance song ever.

That song used to kill on dancefloors here (even the full version), so my sense of its public perception is extremely different from yours, DF.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 15 August 2005 22:54 (twenty years ago)

I think the song just translated badly in most mainstream American dance clubs... New Jack Swing was taking off here, in parallel to the rising popularity of Bobby Brown and Bel Biv Devoe.. and you also had MC Hammer, and a lot of Clivelle & Cole and Jam & Lewis produced stuff... so having a track like "French Kiss" getting marketed with the same money and getting played must have been a shock to U.S. club-goers at the time. (and again, for subversity's sake, thumbs up!)

― donut ferry (donut), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

but Lil' Louis became more of a sacred cow well after "French Kiss" was released, especially thanks to that Warp Classic collection.
-- donut ferry (do...), August 15th, 2005 3:28 PM. (donut)

lil louis isn't on the warp compilation! your point is well taken, though ...

one artist who currently does enjoy a massive (and perhaps for the wrong reason) reputation in large part thanks to the warp 10+1 collection: MR FINGERS.

if most people knew that most of his output sounds closer to men at work or simple minds than to "can u feel it" or "washing machine", would he be this popular?

also, would people have a different perspective on the evolution of dance music if "what about this love?" were considered as canonical as "washing machine"?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:14 (twenty years ago)

actually, the real question is, given the current cultural + artistic relevance of r&b-slanted deep house, and the increasing irrelevance and essential staleness of acid house (thx, IDM dorks for the 1000th lame "cornish acid" revival album), why does "what about this love?" get the shaft?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:19 (twenty years ago)

(aagh, I confused Lil Louis with A Guy Called Gerald, re: Warp comp.. sorry.)

― donut ferry (donut), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

(though, I'm surprised "French Kiss" didn't get put on that Warp comp, in retrospect.. but anyway)

― donut ferry (donut), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:21 (twenty years ago)

maybe cause it would makes all of autechre's "wandering tempo" trickery circa LP5 look hamfisted?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

"the current cultural + artistic relevance of r&b-slanted deep house"

What do you have in mind by this Vahid?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:27 (twenty years ago)

haha the first time i heard the first mr. fingers/fingers inc. album i was pretty taken aback

― strng hlkngtn, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:28 (twenty years ago)

Maybe Severed Heads and Fad Gadget were left off the comp for similar reasons? - xpost

― donut ferry (donut), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:29 (twenty years ago)

What do you have in mind by this Vahid?

1) the vocal end of poppy microhouse (luomo-core?) is getting deep housier all the time, as is vocal broken beat.

2) it's the one dance music that goes over well w/ hipsters and proles over on the other side of the rap/dance divide (theo parrish for the hipsters, jill scott remixes for the proles)

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:34 (twenty years ago)

also the fact that basement jaxx ALONE have made more hot freaked-out jazzy house headfuck "moments" than everybody else put together has done w/ acid (outside of dropping "washing machine" or "percolator" or "narco makossa" into a set)

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

maybe what i am saying is a different thread. what's the opposite of a sacred cow? um, "taboo styles from the dance canon that are now irrelevant": ragga jungle, jazzy / latin house, trance ... what's next?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

probably nu skool breaks. the meat katie fabric mix was almost listenable. the james lavelle GU mixes are listenable but only because they are sort of hybrid tribal house / nu skool breaks mixes.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:40 (twenty years ago)

aw man, talk about such a universal dip in quality for a subsub dance genre.. vahid nailed it. I can't even get excited about Tipper or Si Begg anymore. :( (although i'm glad I still have "Fuzzy Logic", "Move Back", "Planetrock Futureshock", and "Paranoia" from back in the day.)

― donut ferry (donut), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:47 (twenty years ago)

another interesting question (maybe) is, "styles from the dance canon with the most longevity". as in what (not necessarily micro) micro-faction of dance has simply never gone out of style? i doubt either of these questions have an actual answer because of how cyclical the culture around the canon is.

― tricky (disco stu), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:48 (twenty years ago)

xpost

"twister (dynamic bass mix) / get up on your feet"!!

"dig the new breed"!

"under glass"! "se15"! "boomin back atcha"!

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

ohhh bugger, bukem was gonna be the sour centrepiece of a mammoth target/aim high 2 jihad ive been tempted to fulfil for ages! and u were waiting for it all along...

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

"What about this love?" is incredible! Probably my favorite Fingers track along with "Can U Feel It" and "Stars." I'm pretty sure Ronan is a big fan of it too.

Vladislav Delay going more R&B with the next Luomo album seems like a logical progression.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:54 (twenty years ago)

it would have to be micro-faction in order to make the question interesting. otherwise the answer is (duh) house and techno.

― tricky (disco stu), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

there is no answer to your question: that is the interesting part. there's sort of a circularity happening, and you'll find you can actually define things the other way around: a micro-faction is a part of dance that gets stale and stays stale, a faction or style of dance is one that comes and goes, an "undefinably broad" arm of dance ("house", "techno", "hardcore") is one that "stays in style".

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:00 (twenty years ago)

"ohhh bugger, bukem was gonna be the sour centrepiece of a mammoth target/aim high 2 jihad ive been tempted to fulfil for ages! and u were waiting for it all along..."

Prima why you gotta hate Target???

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:11 (twenty years ago)

well... no look its 3:13am sorry, ill bring it tomorrow tho

(fuck it, if anyone else is reading i have a strong dislike for riko too *gasp*)

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:25 (twenty years ago)

sorry for derailing yalls thread! tho i am v glad i got my hip/prole issues out the way ages ago by loving the theo parrish rmx of jill scott

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:27 (twenty years ago)

irrelevant = not presently influential?

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 07:39 (twenty years ago)

old house music is now the "screwed" version of dance music

best comment ever!

i dont really like target either. i dont like all the stuff he does with pianos, and his beats wobble between "really good" and "really boring". those aim high comps are peppered with boring tunes by target on it. "they dont know", that doneao tune is a good example. its sort of ok because of his trademark accordian, but it could really easily be Another Rubbish Target tune. i dont mind riko but D double is awful. that stupid sound he makes is, well, stupid!

i think breaks are a bit of an easy target. like big beat, they are super populist and kinda naff but they are sort of compelling, in a listless way (?!). like, i was dancing to breaks at the weekend, and it was good to just sort of feel...nothing...just like beats, and bass.

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:15 (twenty years ago)

"What About This Love" is definitely canonical, is it not?

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:18 (twenty years ago)

if people hated Lil Louis so much then why was "French Kiss" no. 1 on the Billboard dance charts for two weeks in '89?

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:20 (twenty years ago)

Also, for the record, everyone outside a few HATED Lil' Louis at the time

but, it sold a million copies or something. it was thee dance track of '89.

x post

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

like, i was dancing to breaks at the weekend, and it was good to just sort of feel...nothing...just like beats, and bass

yeah, that's a pretty good way of putting it - maybe no wonder j lavelle is calling his new (fashion) project "surrender"? you could also note his predilection for black-on-black-on-black color schemes ...

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

My wife was out in the clubs when "French Kiss" dropped (as were you, DB) and apparently Boston was going MAD for that song. Actually, when I finally got it on a comp and played it on the home stereo, she completely freaked out and shouted "I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS SONG FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!" and she never, ever, ever, ever, ever does that.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:03 (twenty years ago)

I still luv "bat dis", fuck the haters.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:04 (twenty years ago)

beat dis. argh.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:05 (twenty years ago)

'beat dis' is grate.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:07 (twenty years ago)

"Beat Dis" fucking rocks!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:16 (twenty years ago)

but is it still relevant, is the question? sample collage type tracks were by and large a late 80s fad that didn't survive. the more recent mash-up phenomenon made a lot of it feel relevant again to an extent (and served as a reminder that yes 'beat Dis' was/is good, but to look at the climate and stance of Dance (as tree with numerous branches stemming from the same big trunk) now, are there any clues in any current dance music that suggests 'Beat Dis' and it's ilk ever existed or mattered? That's interesting.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

I think 'French Kiss' is absolutely relevant today given the darker, minimal tone of a lot of house music...partly through electroclash. 'Energy Flash' too. these are tracks you could presumably still drop today and be met with general approval were it not for just how ubiquitous they remain. if i heard 'Washing Machine' in a set now i'd go mental, but that's partly because i was never familiar with it for so long - it was just another one of those tracks i'd only heard about.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:23 (twenty years ago)

'beat dis' might be irrelevant to contemporary producers, but the basic moral beauty of the thing remains inspirational today.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

Was "Give It Up" ever popular enough to make sacred cow status? Because my impression is that desipte how much I completely adore and ove it, it's almost completely irrelevant to what people want to dance to now.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:27 (twenty years ago)

it's evidently the mid 90s stuff that is now deemed irrelevant and has been re-evaluated in the process. 'Exit Planet Dust' is the prime example (along with 'Leftism' I suppose, Underworld having escaped the expiry date trend gun with more intact). In 1995, a dynamic sonic tour de force with the Chems amalgamating love of JB breaks, European techno, bone-crunching NY electro, psychey/droney folk etc. to excellent effect. In 2005 it's widely seen as a stodgy, amateurish forerunner to better things. Though it's relevancy depends on whether you still see the Chems as influential today. They've moved on from it somewhat (though their album template does remain more or less the same) thus it's hard for me to berate their first effort because as lumpy as it may sound now it's also got the spunk the latter work naturally lacks due to repetition of formulae).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:33 (twenty years ago)

'Give It Up' was HUGE at it's time, a top 5 hit even (a year after it first surfaced). I think you're right though Dan, looking at things now, you'd never know it existed.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:35 (twenty years ago)

Surely Exit Planet Dust is still the second best album The Chemical Bros ever made? "Life Is Sweet"! "Chico's Groove"! "

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

SteveM otm re Lil' Louis and it's current relevance. I've got the album 'the world of Lil Louis' and the single 'You called me' is a blueprint for someone like Miss Kittin.

For me Exit Planet Dust is like drinking Belgian fruit beer. Intriguing, a little strange, outwardly appealing but having to take more than a few sips is more than the body can stand. Whenever I hear 'The brother's gonna work it out' and the crunching bass and beats comes in, I'm praying for the record to end.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:54 (twenty years ago)

I utterly love Belgian fruit beer :) But I played 'Exit Planet Dust' far too much and haven't really listened to it in the last five years as a result.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:00 (twenty years ago)

Still love 'Life Is Sweet' though. The Daft Punk remix would probably still work today too.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:01 (twenty years ago)

I don't think the Chems did anything embarrasing until Surrender but I know that no one else agrees with me. "Chico's Groove" is a total beast.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:03 (twenty years ago)

Admittedly when I pull it out these days I usually go straight to the second half of the album - if I wanted to listen to the first half I'd probably just play Dig Your Own Hole instead.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:03 (twenty years ago)

Actually, when I really think about it, "Loops of Fury" is maybe the best track they ever did!

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:11 (twenty years ago)

I don't really care if "beat dis" (or for that matter "pump up the volume", which is even better) is relevant or not. it rocks! It's great! I'd have to say that I can't think of anything in the field of dance music I've heard in the last 18 months-2yrs that I've liked even a tiny little bit.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

But this thread is/was about relevancy, not what rocks!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:18 (twenty years ago)

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