― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:46 (eighteen years ago) link
I got this vague memory of my first impressions of the Ramones. I remembered how different it seemed from all the metal bands back then. These punks weren't singing about how awesome they were and how they were going to kick ass, but mostly about how much they themselves sucked and what misfit, lazy idiots they were, how much they needed meds and lobotomies and how all their girlfriends were these suicidal psycho chicks and how much drugs they're going to do. I guess in it's own weird way it's more realistic than a lot of heavy metal, but I didn't exactly listen to metal for reality, anyway. My interest in punk started out as a laugh, but eventually I guess the cynical "laugh as your world falls apart" attitude rubbed off on me, as it seems to have on those old punks themselves. If they just started out to mock society and piss people off for a laugh, then why did they end up so serious and troubled?
― Guitarzan, Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:49 (eighteen years ago) link
x-posts to Matos
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― Guitarzan, Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― It's Called Maturity, Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:56 (eighteen years ago) link
wow, i'm pissed up and it's 4am so maybe i oughtn't be typing.
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 01:57 (eighteen years ago) link
I think I may be the only hardcore Pavement fan who reckons Slanted is on the whole a load of rub other than maybe Trigger Cut and Here (arguably the least punk tracks on the album).
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:05 (eighteen years ago) link
Grunge wasn't a bad thing in most people's eyes in the 80's, so maybe it was kind of like that in the 70's, too. I know sometimes when I buy an album from the 70s or earlier, I sometimes find myself wondering if it was really a wise purchase. I tend to feel that I've heard it before and I didn't really need any more of it.
― Guitarzan, Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:09 (eighteen years ago) link
More likely that they never listened to the stuff to begin with. Come on.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:09 (eighteen years ago) link
It's not as if technical or conceptual music died completely after 1977, it's just it became really uncool and so acts like Dream Theater could never have become as big as Nirvana. It's also the reason Oasis won the battle over Blur - they were more punk, so they won.
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:11 (eighteen years ago) link
It's like that joke in Family Guy
A: "I don't see any reason why we should go to war"B: "Ah, but you are forgetting that anyone who doesn't want to go to war is gay."C: "I wanna go to war"A: "Hey, I never said I didn't want to go to war!"D: "I said I wanted to go to war first!"
It's such an automatic excuse: Oh, so unless you respect these mohawk dudes then it means your into triple albums about trolls that eat maggot sandwiches and the inner meaning of ptolemiology.
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:18 (eighteen years ago) link
Sure they did. And they got tired of it just like everyone else when they saw how pointless it was to try and stick a blazing fast solo in a song for no reason. Kurt Cobain and the dudes from Soundgarden had heard all the same shit I listened to growing up. They were all young boys once, too, glued to MTV just like every other kid. They watched Headbanger's Ball and 120 Minutes just like everyone else and every day after school they got to see Steve Vai doing "Yankee Rose," back-to-back with Megadeth's "Peace Sells" and Poison's "Every Rose," etc.
On the topic of Steve Vai, it's kind of funny that he offered to do some movie soundtrack with Perry Farrell. Perry Farrell's only response was "Wasn't he in White Snake?!" This proves (to me, at least) that Perry follows metal enough to know that shit. I didn't know about it until last week! And what is so different about Jane's Addiction, anyway? That shit is basically metal.
― Guitarzan, Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Guitarzan, Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Guitarzan, Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― I was CRYING when Huell Howser's head exploded in a local feed store (dr g), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:30 (eighteen years ago) link
Maybe some grunge people were big metal heads previously - I dunno. I think it was just more punk w/ a bit of a retro Stooges/Blue Cheer/Sabbath or whatever thing.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:34 (eighteen years ago) link
Or broke...
well, then so was I... but, I not really. I practiced all the time. I just realized that I didn't need to be Yngwie fucking Malmsteen to make good music. (I never liked him, anyway.) I just wanted to make my own music ASAP, not waste time learning other people's music and, while I still respected Metallica and Megadeth, I knew my fingers wouldn't be able to do any of that shit for a long time, so I just kept plugging away at my own "style," which I thought was really important at the time. Besides, I knew what I thought were the only two scales, so I didn't think there was anything more to learn! Just practice, I figured. One day, it would all click. Haha.
― Guitarzan, Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Guitarzan, Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:40 (eighteen years ago) link
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/263/910/640/dils.jpg
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 15 October 2005 02:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― Coin yourself!, Saturday, 15 October 2005 03:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Robert J Myers (moriarty), Saturday, 15 October 2005 03:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 15 October 2005 03:36 (eighteen years ago) link
The reason punk matters, still, is because it is THE emblematic instance in popular culture when the urges to create and destroy were both given simultaneous expression, as the late twentieth century careened from utopian visions to dystopian comedown.
The very fact that what I just wrote sounds like a lot of bull proves how vital and versatile this thing we call 'punk' is.
― Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Saturday, 15 October 2005 04:00 (eighteen years ago) link
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), October 15th, 2005.
FOR THE LAST TIME KILLING JOKE IS NOT A GOTH BAND
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 15 October 2005 04:50 (eighteen years ago) link
They're not, though. Honest. Don't listen to the Suicide Girls, fuck do they know? Killing Joke aren't Goths. Call'em whatever ya want, but don't call'em Goths.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 15 October 2005 04:57 (eighteen years ago) link
From where I'm standing, it really doesn't look like either band "won," and neither got within several zip code of Punk.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 15 October 2005 04:59 (eighteen years ago) link
one other thing: no other genre of music has had more pretentious, hackneyed self-important BULLSHIT written about it (and i'm saying this as a fan of books like Jon Savage's England's Dreaming).
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 15 October 2005 05:06 (eighteen years ago) link
So true, although Hip Hop is catching up.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 15 October 2005 05:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― sleeve (sleeve), Saturday, 15 October 2005 05:41 (eighteen years ago) link
What's really got me puzzled is that some of you actually seem to like ELP quite a lot . . oh, wait, is this what you young 'un's are calling 'trolling'? You scamps!
― Soukesian, Saturday, 15 October 2005 06:53 (eighteen years ago) link
that was never even 1% of the apeal for me. and I don't think it was for, say, phil spector when he produced End of The Century, or Lou Reed when, you know, he made two immaculate non-shit albums. Self-titled and Loaded, how can you even argue that the song writing/performances aren't amazing on those. I love, say, White Light/White Heat just as much, but it's not because it's a bit shit, it's because it's a whole lotta awesome in the dirtiest, dirtiest way. what's the difference between people saying this shit is untouchable compaired to people defending the stones or the beatles to the death? to most people who actually like music, The Stooges or the Ramones or the velvet underground or black flag weren't a novelty at all, I never listened to "Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue" because it was funny, I listened to it because it was awesome. and still is. and always will be.
p.s. metal and prog rock suck balls
― tonyD (noiseyrock), Saturday, 15 October 2005 07:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 15 October 2005 07:49 (eighteen years ago) link
I think what we're talking about is rock music where almost everything has been stripped away. It's not that these bands are shit, it's just that they share an assumption that things like precision, formal experimentation and demonstrations of technical expertise DON'T MATTER, it's about the excitement of the basic form and the chancy elements of live performance. The roughness and the grit, the stuff other genres throw away, give it texture.
I suppose, at the end of the day, I do worship basic hard rock, and I suppose that is boring for other people. The institutionalisation of any form is a shame, and I wouldn't want to contribute to that. But imagine how I feel about being told off for not caring much for 'perfect pop' or soul.
I'm also baffled by the opposition of punk and metal, and have been since I was fourteen. The genres are so close I can't see that anyone could enjoy one without finding something in the other.
― Soukesian, Saturday, 15 October 2005 07:58 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.kronic.it/public/pics_big/NOJE-08s40-lemmy-31.jpg
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 15 October 2005 08:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 15 October 2005 08:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Sunday, 16 October 2005 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link
;-) (jks)
― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 16 October 2005 18:52 (eighteen years ago) link
TelevisionBlack FlagWireRamonesMinutemenMisfitsFugaziStoogesBuzzcocksUndertonesThe Fall
If you think all punk is poorly played, hyperfast three-chord anti-government screeds, you're listening to somebody's bad stereotype of punk. Or you're thinking of hardcore, which was punk's stylistic blind alley anyway.
If you pop on "Orgasm Addict" or "Holidays In The Sun" and you don't get an instant rush of timeless rock pleasure, you may be dead.
― Edward III (edward iii), Sunday, 16 October 2005 23:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― disco violence (disco violence), Monday, 17 October 2005 00:46 (eighteen years ago) link
Of this list, the only bands I have any passing desire to ever listen to are Wire, the Minutemen and The Ramones, and they aren't high on my playlist.
― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Monday, 17 October 2005 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 17 October 2005 14:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 17 October 2005 14:46 (eighteen years ago) link
Any argument that starts out "Why should I respect a music genre that is a bunch of undifferentiated crap" is immediately suspect if said genre is full of differentiation. Although I suspect the basis of this argument is "Somebody turned up their nose at my beloved ELO CDs - I'll attack back!" Okay, life sucks. Buy a helmet.
― Edward III (edward iii), Monday, 17 October 2005 15:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 20 November 2005 03:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― Yawn (Wintermute), Sunday, 20 November 2005 03:15 (eighteen years ago) link
It's uncompromising, DIY stuff done for the love of doing it, not because these guys think they have a chance in hell of making any money doing it. I am drawn to it because it's pure music driven by nothing more than love.
― recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Sunday, 20 November 2005 10:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Sunday, 20 November 2005 20:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― AaronK (AaronK), Monday, 21 November 2005 04:20 (eighteen years ago) link
Anything that has ever been considered punk by anybody? Bands that sound like the Ramones? The New York 1970s scene? Detroit in the 60s, England in the 70s, LA in the 80s? Bands that are snotty? What do you mean by punk?
― 2 and 3 and 2 and 5, Monday, 21 November 2005 10:19 (eighteen years ago) link
OH THE DIVERSITY
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 21 November 2005 10:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 21 November 2005 10:48 (eighteen years ago) link
Have you ever listened to these bands, Theorry? There's an awful lot of stylistic real estate between Minor Threat and Pere Ubu and the Theoretical Girls, yet all fall under the umbrella of Punk. It is the quintessence of diversity.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 21 November 2005 14:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 21 November 2005 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link
but if punk is as diverse as you say, then why not ashlee simpson?
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 21 November 2005 14:34 (eighteen years ago) link
hardcore is to punk what acorns are to oak trees, silly person.
Just because a genre is diverse, that doesn't necessarily make it all-encompasing.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 21 November 2005 14:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 21 November 2005 14:56 (eighteen years ago) link
when is punk's cut-off point then? anyone who is inspired by punk, and anyone who inspired punk, is a punk?
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 21 November 2005 14:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 21 November 2005 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link
Unless they are lying.
― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 21 November 2005 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 21 November 2005 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Monday, 21 November 2005 16:02 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 21 November 2005 16:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Monday, 21 November 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 21 November 2005 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Monday, 21 November 2005 17:45 (eighteen years ago) link
And yeah, if you think DEVO and the New York Dolls sound the same you're a fucking moron.
ps... always thought hardcore was short for... hardcore punk... but maybe Im just crazy
― 2 and 3 and 2 and 5, Monday, 21 November 2005 18:46 (eighteen years ago) link
Are you being "controversial" here?
― Dan (Get A New Hobby Horse Already) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 21 November 2005 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link
I was going to cite that too, but I've seen arguments to the contrary.
...y'know, unlike, say, Hip Hop.
No, here I believe I was "being a dick," but by the same token, I'd assert with a straight-face that there's more diversity under the banner of Punk than there is under the banner of Hip Hop.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 21 November 2005 19:13 (eighteen years ago) link