― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:15 (nineteen years ago) link
well no, you sure can't fill any football stadiums with hiphop over here. Fairly routine for trance/hard techno.
― Omar (Omar), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:16 (nineteen years ago) link
I am sure if Simon pitched this themed article at a specialist publication - then a more longer, detailed and substantial effort would have been actioned.
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link
So? I'm not sure what that has to do w/ hip-hop's club domination in the united states.
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:20 (nineteen years ago) link
well maybe a broad readership isn't interested in music that isn't selling? not that sales should be the only factor in coverage, but given the NYT's increasingly populist bent in the "pop music" section (that's right, music is segregated into "pop" and "classical" again, bye bye clinton nineties), it's just surprising.
― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link
Even more oddly, others have been looking to rock music for reinvigoration.
why is this odd?
why is it odd that Norman Cook, formerly a bassist in a rock band (albeit a sorta pansyish one) would listen to or be inspired by rock music!
― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:25 (nineteen years ago) link
Point being: If hip-hop/pop big in Europe too, harder to see them as a unique factor holding back dance/electronic in the US. Especially in the case of pop!
I agree with Perpetua's explanation.
― bugged out, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:26 (nineteen years ago) link
It seems a bit strange to ignore that the biggest reason why Fatboy Slim, Chemical Brothers, Daft Punk, and The Prodigy all had fluke success in the US around the same time was cos major labels and the media in the US had convinced itself that it was the Next Big Thing
*That's* why a broad readership might be interested. The music was pushed as the Next Big Thing (which a broad musically-curious readership might remember), and now nobody cares about it. There's your article.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:28 (nineteen years ago) link
― bugged out, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:31 (nineteen years ago) link
but the point of the article is that dance music is barely alive in america. it's not. it's his rather narrowly defined notion dance music that's dead.
― john'n'chicago, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:33 (nineteen years ago) link
This is true, although not about the Spice Girls--they were more or less concurrent to the big beat explosion, and had their biggest impact before Fat of the Land went to #1. But nu-metal is a much better example--it's pretty much what people were looking for in big-beat, except more rock, so easier to reconcile. And as Scottpl recently pointed out in his Always Outnumbered review, it often really wasn't that far off from nu-metal. You put, say, Linkin Park's "Faint" and Prodigy's "Firestarter" up against each other, and there's really not too much distinguishing the two.
― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:34 (nineteen years ago) link
No, the point is that *particular styles* of dance music is barely alive in America. Against, I think there's confusion because the phrase "dance music" means different things to Americans and Europeans.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stevem On X (blueski), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:36 (nineteen years ago) link
or aphex twin's "come to daddy."
― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Stevem On X (blueski), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:38 (nineteen years ago) link
e.g on BBC Musichttp://www.bbc.co.uk/music/
DanceHouse, Trance, Techno
UrbanHip hop, R'n'B, Garage, Ragga
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:40 (nineteen years ago) link
But yeah, nu-metal is more important since electronica was being marketed to modern rock radio and alt-rock fans.
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link
this was the NeoCons side-project, alongside the slandering of CLinton
and 'dance' as a term for certain genres and subgenres of music is just as hopeless as the terms pop, rock, indie, urban etc. - but i'm still surprised people feel the need to bring up the 'why is it called dance music when we can dance to Britney/rock music as well?' thing again...in 2005!
― Stevem On X (blueski), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:43 (nineteen years ago) link
Fatboy Slim, The Chemical Brothers and The Prodigy both had some huge hits, but I would say that the success of Daft Punk really was only a modest success (which probably set them up to a better long term career, cos they aren't stuck with that nostalgia vibe. Well, that and DP just being way better in general.)
― Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link
4th paragraph:In the new millennium, the mainstream profile of dance music dipped alarmingly. This downturn occurred on both sides of the Atlantic, but it was particularly precipitous in America
― john'n'chicago, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link
"dance music" = House, Trance, Techno
(as stated in DJ Martian's post above)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:53 (nineteen years ago) link
Yeah, it really does have a lot to do with how they were trying to shoehorn this stuff into rock stations, it alienated the core demo of rock stations.
― Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link
"Come To Daddy" did pretty well, though.
― Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:57 (nineteen years ago) link
"I WANT YOUR SOUL, I WILL EAT YOUR SOUL!!"
so metal
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:58 (nineteen years ago) link
(x-post)
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 22:00 (nineteen years ago) link
These guys really were more of an MTV/album sales thing
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 23 January 2005 22:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Sunday, 23 January 2005 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 23 January 2005 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link