Is Everybody Who Edits the Village Voice Really This Stupid?

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so wa sup with you and jess just wnated to say hi and say that i gope i can babysit brittney soon cuz i love spending time with her she is so cool and funny she loves to laugh the 1st time that i babysat her we were out side playing babmonton and all she did was laugh and sometimes when she laughed all i did was hit the birdie. the next time i babysit her i am going to get her to show me her dance cha cha it was so cute and it was really good she is good at all kinds of stuff iam glad that you di not already ahve a babysitter cuz then i would not know brittney and i really like spending time with her oh ya william says hi he doe not have an e-mail address so he told me to say hi.right now i am writng ot you form the library cuz william is in art camp and i told him that i was going to write to you so he wanted me to say hi to you for him i would take him doewn with me the next time i babysit brittney but

― doom-e, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

poor doomie!

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

word.

― doom-e, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 17:58 (twenty-two years ago)

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:00 (twenty-two years ago)

word.

― doome, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

one that most *mainstream* rock fans from the '70s to the '00s, from Cactus fans to Matchbox 20 fans,
would think of as a rock band if they actually heard the record as well. (Which I'm guessing, maybe wrongly, you couldn't say about Royal
Trux or Fucking Champs.)

Okay. I can see that. I could see "rock" rock fans responding favourably to specific songs by RT or FC or even NMH, but certainly not entire albums.
It's hilarious, sometimes, when you write for a large audience, how people will glom on to something you merely intended to be entirely self-evident and offhand, and whatever. Y'know.
Cripes. But, uh, from what I can tell, it was still reckless. Not that that's a value judgment either.

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

But since when should criticism NOT be "reckless"? Reckless is fun! (Best songs: "Summer of '69," "Run to You," and "Ain't Gonna Cry" -- the latter primarily for the dumpster solo, of course.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh wait, you said it *wasn't* a value judgement. Sorry!

― chuck, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I think perhaps the most perfect encapsulation of the whole ambivalent indie attitude towards rocking-as-a-verb can be found in the drippingly sarcastic way that Black Francis sings "Oh let it rock" in the Pixies' song "UMass".

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I, for one, would like to see the indie world finally embrace the term "rock your world" (as in, "baby, let me...") as a euphemism for doing the deed (as in finalizing real estate deals).

― Horace Mann (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 18:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"Hating" was the wrong word, I think, unless Drag City is like PiL c. Flowers of Romance (sorry, I mean FLOWERS OF ROMANCE, we're using caps here), who hated what rock had become and wanted to destroy it. I've actually heard little or nothing on Drag City, but I can imagine (correctly or incorrectly) that the music on it in fact represents quite well what rock has become, hence makes ME rock hating (assuming that I wouldn't like what I'd heard on Drag City, if I'd heard it).

This thread has not lived up to its title.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 19:39 (twenty-two years ago)

well, that's cuz it was always just an 'artist whining about a critic' by proxy instead of an actual attempt at a logistical beatdown

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Wednesday, 6 August 2003 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Did I really read this entire thread? Do I understand anything more about music other than rock gets to your brain and circulates by your heart's good grace? Is it appropriate to use the term Rock-sucking 'ho? Or if not appropriate, at least accurate? Perhaps only in the case of Jennifer Herrema? For the answers to these and other questions - tune in - same rock-hating time, same rock-hating channel...

― Chris P, Thursday, 7 August 2003 06:25 (twenty-two years ago)

who are you talking to?

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Thursday, 7 August 2003 06:32 (twenty-two years ago)

who you got?

― Chris P, Thursday, 7 August 2003 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think it's possible in 2003 for rock music to hate or destroy itself, at least if it is the people listening are probably still rock fans. I am not familiar with PiL but I'd imagine the potential for new schisms in rock was alot higher 20 odd years ago than it is now.

There are plenty of dance labels who hate what dance music has become, Warp and Music For Freaks are two which spring to mind, but it's unfair to pick out Music For Freaks when there are probably loads of other up their ass house labels out there who whinge about how dated everything is. Also I quite like the Freaks.

Hating what dance music has become is the music equivalent of "Student Feels World Politics Shows Elements Of Injustice". Hating what rock music has become is kind of an erratic beast.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

MFF isn't dance-hating tho' partic as it's a sister label classic, which is pretty dance-loving... it's just a another sid eof to regular dance music, which i pretty much what drag city does w/ rock -
thus my original idea of "hating" being the wrong word to use stands up... would you agree w/ this chuck? anyway, i still really don't care but considering the trubble this has caused, i'm deffo plagiarising messrs eddy and matos for the next time i review a warp record, just to see what happens when i call them dance-hating... does anyone mind?!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i may even type the review properly - it's early and i'm in a rush at work - forgive me...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not so sure Dave, house hating then maybe? All I ever hear from the Freaks is how utterly shit everything is. If not dance hating then snobbery to mind boggling levels.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

oh i agree and they are quite shitheaded (to borrow a joe queenanism) abt it, too. i mean i like what they do but they're hardly reinventing the wheel or anything - their stuff is v v v uninspired when juxtaposed w the likes of isolee, akufen, villalobos, superpitcher and any other artist in my arbitrary list of current favourites...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

but they're basically everything i dislike about the MOR, "tasteful" Brithouse scene: it's like a club for petulant middle-class boys and as such does my nut in...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 7 August 2003 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Not sure how much you consider MOR and tasteful but I reckon I probably agree and I say that as someone who loves house more than any other genre, I'm so much more into the pop influenced stuff or the scuzzy e stuff than any of the soul tradition nonsense.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 7 August 2003 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Yo, Hstencil, if you're still reading this, what happened to your tour blog? I was really enjoying it.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 August 2003 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

The tour ended, so therefore, no blog?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 August 2003 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, I see. I thought it was weird that all the previous posts had disappeared.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 August 2003 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, now having no archive, that IS weird.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 August 2003 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

the tour is not over, but the blog is.

If previews don't count, then why write them? Also, why would Drag City be interested in having me collect them in every town? Duh, Chuck, because they do matter and you know it. I agree that a critic should not be a P.R. hack for the label (there are plenty of those already at most alt-weeklies in America, believe me), but I also don't think that a critic need display so much venom towards stuff that he may later claim he didn't listen to.

(and also it may be that since the night I submitted my rebuttal, I also had to worry about bailing someone out of the Allegheny County Jail the next day, so take this all with a grain of salt.)

― hstencil, Friday, 8 August 2003 07:28 (twenty-two years ago)

spill spill!

― nnnh oh oh nnnh nnnh oh (James Blount), Friday, 8 August 2003 07:32 (twenty-two years ago)

When did I say previews don't count, and when did I display venom for something I might later claim I didn't listen to? My preview counted, the venom was warranted, and you're still being a moron.

― chuck, Friday, 8 August 2003 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

The preview was also POSITIVE, for Crissakes. I wouldn't be surprised if it BROUGHT people to the band's show. And of COURSE if I complain about Drag City, people at Drag City will disagree with me. Why the hell wouldn't they? That's their job. But giving them something to agree with is not MY job. (And if your complaint is that I can't make generalizations about a label's sound without hearing every note of every record the label has released, I'm sorry. You're full of shit.)

― chuck, Friday, 8 August 2003 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.slagoon.com/store/book3.gif

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 8 August 2003 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

You're full of shit.

You first, rock hater.

― hstencil, Saturday, 9 August 2003 07:21 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/cjs/films/reviews/pics/sonatine.jpg

― Adrian (Adrian Langston), Saturday, 9 August 2003 07:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think the Royal Trux question was adequately addressed here myself.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually I suppose it was just left as undecideable, given "knowingness" and no-one can define "rockin" anyway, but Chuck did you ever hear them? Particularly, like got said above a lot, 'Accelerator'?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

why is everyone suddenly conflating winky winky faux-80s production and skeletons of songs with "rockin"?!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Cos it makes me dance and yell mofo

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 08:58 (twenty-two years ago)

The production's a big part of that record, so yeah if you don't like it it's a bummer, but how do skeletal songs inhibit the rock?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

they don't i suppose. i guess i'm just making some arbitrary distinction between "skeletal" and "sparse", where the former is a code word for "unfinished or half-assed" and the latter just means there's a lot of a space in the songs. (so, like, nickelback can be "skeletal" and the fall are "sparse".)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 10 August 2003 09:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I was thinking of 'Four Sticks' when you said that

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 10 August 2003 09:05 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

Other labels that don't rock:

Rounder
Deutsche Grammophone
Blue Note

I've found the anti-post-rock and anti-indie backlash so dismaying for the past few years, not because I think anyone has to like the goddamn stuff, but because at the heart of it seem to be certain irritating assumptions about music is supposed to be -- i.e. raucous, fun, danceable, simple, etc. Lots of great music fits those terms, and lots more doesn't. Guitar bands =/= (necessarily) "Rock TRAPPINGS" as Chuck put it. Drag City tends to put out introspective, thoughtful, quiet stuff. I don't find the best of it *boring* in the slightest (Jim O'Rourke's solo work, the better Oldham and Smog stuff). But it's listening music more than "rocking" music. I didn't think guitars came with indication labels about how they are to be used.

I think a lot of the current bands that "rock" are much more worthy of ridicule (the garage revivalists in particular) because their music is such a bland, forced exercise in rocking. And what's worse is that a lot of their fans don't even *rock out* to it, so what's the point of rocking anyway? Not to say that Chuck or any of DC's other detractors necessarily like those bands.

For the record, "Insignificance" ROCKS, IMHO.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

dammit. based on that first post alone, I've got to go and read this whole thread now.

― Carl Winslow is WHAT!?!? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I don't really care so much about the original post. I was just browsing old threads about "post-rock" and felt like venting.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost:
I'm going to try and avoid that by saying: I'm new to this this thread and would like to get a bearing so I ask- are the Boards of Canada "rock-hating"? I searched the page and couldn't find them.

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG! Best thread ever!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Boards Of Canada are pro-narcolepsy. i dunno about there love for rock.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

You're nibbling the bait while trying not to spring the trap, my VV-associated friend.

― Ken L (Ken L), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Small Wonder pictures! Twice!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I heard that Boards of Canada record "Music Has the Right to blah" for the first time a few weeks ago, it was one of those I'd missed somehow. It's pretty great.

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Is this thread about that AC/DC album that Drag City is putting out in 2005?!

― Carl Winslow is WHAT!?!? (deangulberry), Tuesday, 4 January 2005 03:17 (twenty-one years ago)

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