New Joanna Newsom Album "Ys" Due Nov 14

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Different accent.

― M. V. (M.V.), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:27 (nineteen years ago)

Right, there's actual tension and dynamics in Ys. :-)

― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:32 (nineteen years ago)

"I learned from [Velte] most of all about the music of Webern. Naturally, I was composing twelve-tone music, but in my own way, whatever that may have meant." - Wolfgang Rihm

By Joseph Stevenson: "He tends to follow the 12-tone system as used by Anton Webern, Luigi Nono, the later composers William Killmayer and Helmuth Lachenmann, as well as being influenced by the music of Stockhausen and Morton Feldman." Jan Swafford says something similar.

Hmm. So what I heard a long time ago WAS twelve-tone, though, of course, not in the sense of strictly serial music like Webern or Boulez.

So, yeah. Wolfgang Rihm is a bit academic. He was a student of Stockhausen so... obviously some influence there. I'm not really into him personally (now that I'm re-listening to some of his works) and I haven't heard any of his non-twelve tone music.. if there *is* any.

― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:41 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - Because it's about 1000% more twee and compared to Vespertine the strings on this sound disgusting and totally synthetic?

I'm not saying Vespertine doesn't have more than a couple of slack, draggy moments (Undo, Harm Of Will) but right through there's a clear & direct emotional signal, even the soppy bits. With Joanna it's very often just a chore to hear it through all the games and the hint of incredulity/ridiculousness in her narratives.

That said, I'm not giving up on this (or at least not deleting) yet, my first playthrough was real cynicism busting stuff, and far easier & efficient than I'd anticipated, the songs do have momentum but everything since has been a right old slog.

― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:46 (nineteen years ago)

the strings on this sound disgusting and totally synthetic

That's exactly how the strings on Vespertine sound to me. Oh, well.

― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:53 (nineteen years ago)

I don't get the strings sounding "synthetic" at all. Or that her narratives involve "games" (or that they're ridiculous).

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:53 (nineteen years ago)

I like that "average Joe fan". Like a bunch of brahs were bumpin' her last album at the friday night kegger.

Probably not, but it is the best-selling record in Drag City history, apparently.

― jaymc (jaymc), Saturday, 9 September 2006 01:55 (nineteen years ago)

I don't get the strings sounding "synthetic" at all. Or that her narratives involve "games" (or that they're ridiculous).
-- Tim Ellison (thefriendlyfriendlybubbl...), September 9th, 2006. (Tim Ellison) (link)

Ditto. In fact, I generally don't care for lyrics, but I like how she's overtly poetic without coming off as self-consciously clever. It's almost e. e. cummings-like, at moments.

― Turangalila (Salvador), Saturday, 9 September 2006 02:01 (nineteen years ago)

Huzzah.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 September 2006 02:07 (nineteen years ago)

e. e. cummings like "Sun In My Mouth" or "Sonnets / Unrealities XI"??

The strings... man, it all comes across so piped after a while, less cinematic than just blandly romantic, the comment about the recording process upthread could well be the most OTM comment in this thread.

And hmmm "without coming off as self-consciously clever" Oh god, I wish that were true because I'm just finding it slightly amusing, but not actually very entertaining, or all that intellectually stimulating and certainly not a whole lot of fun.

― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 02:25 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah but it's self-consciously clever as a postmodern method. There may be moments where it's overboard, but on the whole I actually think there's a kind of restraint to these narratives - I mean, they are after all sort of sketchy poetic stories. In any case, I don't find much of it pretentious at all and most of the writing to be serving the purpose of these very moving songs.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 02:43 (nineteen years ago)

Guys are suckers for baby talk lisping. Even if it's drawling about mooncalfs and spooky mountain folk.

Newsom's a harpy. Don't say I didn't warn you.

― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:17 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah thanks. Very insightful.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:26 (nineteen years ago)

Well, she is a harpist, at least. I heard she actually talks like that, too.

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:27 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - I'm just not finding it moving enough. It feels very lite on that score. I HOPE something clicks (as I initially thought it was going to) because I genuinely admire her artistry and value the opinions of a lot of people who like her... but it's still stuck in this weird zone between some kind of straight-faced adult Jackanory and Victoria Williams for hipsters for me and add all that to the suffocatingly monotone orchestral paint job and well, I'll post again if I do change my mind but I'm doubting it happening now.

― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:30 (nineteen years ago)

Do you have the lyrics or, if not, are you able to follow along w/ the narratives?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:32 (nineteen years ago)

No need to get uppity, Tim. Just admit that you're hopelessly swayed by baby talk.

Correction. *Pretentious* baby talk.

― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:38 (nineteen years ago)

Oh OK. Yeah, you were right.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:39 (nineteen years ago)

I hate the album now and feel shame.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:41 (nineteen years ago)

Well, little man, I'm sure that you'll earnestly express your feelings about the album on your music blog. And in at least 12 ILM threads. And however many other music forums you inhabit.

― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:46 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, my nemesis...

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:47 (nineteen years ago)

You wish. Ha!

― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:48 (nineteen years ago)

WTF this is weird.

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:51 (nineteen years ago)

The truth is that I actually kind of like Tim. Deep down he's quite cuddly, in an anti-social record collector geek sort of way. You're a nice guy, Tim, so from now on I'm just going to be kind to you. Honestly.

― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Saturday, 9 September 2006 03:54 (nineteen years ago)

xposts - I'm able to follow the narratives pretty well without the lyric sheet I think, vocally she's quite clear, although it DEFINITELY takes more than a couple of plays for some meanings and a lot of her imagery to unravel & unpack properly. There are some lovely, lovely lines and sentiments in here (the one about clouds like breaking bread especially) and yet...

It's not that I have a low attention span it's just that I begin to stop caring after too long. Monkey and Bear makes me wince too, despite having some of the most engaging and vivid language on here late in that track, overall I find it kind of embarrasing, but then I'm not one for prog much tbh.

If there's an ongoing story running through the whole record I haven't quite worked it out so far though.

― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 04:08 (nineteen years ago)

More listens definitely, when I can face the prospect. I might have to give "The Drift" another go first though ;-)

― just say no to individuality (fandango), Saturday, 9 September 2006 04:10 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.suburbanjungle.com/images/proud_furry_huge.gif

― señor citizen (eman), Saturday, 9 September 2006 04:14 (nineteen years ago)

Someone's attempted a lyric sheet for the album already, complete with Wikipedia entries for the "difficult" words:

http://www.fromamouth.com/milkymoon/lyrics.htm

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Saturday, 9 September 2006 06:13 (nineteen years ago)

That site's had the lyrics up since she started playing the songs live, almost a year now.

― Edward III (edward iii), Saturday, 9 September 2006 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

you caught some small death when you were sleepwalking

does this mean what i think it does?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 September 2006 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

It sure does. Now I'll give you 3 guesses what "in my doorway we shucked and jived" means.

― Edward III (edward iii), Saturday, 9 September 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

"Dumbstruck" would be a good way of describing my reaction to this album. Maybe "awestruck."

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 07:08 (nineteen years ago)

AND BTW FWIW FUCKING "ORGONEGIRL"/FUCKING "HOT HOT HEAT" - AND OH YOU'RE GOING TO BE NICE TO ME NOW GEE THANKS - I AGREE WITH MY MAN TONY RETTMAN IN HIS BLOG SCHPIEL RIGHT HERE ABOUT PLZ DONOT FUCKING CHARACTERIZE MOIS AS DORK/GEEK JUST CUZ I HAPPEN TO BE A MUSICIAN/CRITIC/SCHOLAR WHEN YOU DONOT EVEN KNOW ME.......TAKE THAT ONE TO THE BANK FULE.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

(well, I agree w/ the spirit of tony's post if not some of the particulars anyway...)

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

Music blog writer deferring to (and plugging) someone else's music blog in order to "explain" his true personality = DORK/GEEK x INFINITY

CRITIC/SCHOLAR? More like a HYPE MACHINE.

Actually, Tim, we did once meet at La Mesa. Granted, I don't "know" you, but the consensus was that your sexist cracks and "wigga" jokes didn't exactly endure you to anyone.

― Hot Hot Heat (Hot Hot Heat), Sunday, 10 September 2006 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

You've lost me w/ the latter part of your retort - no idea who you are or to what you are referring. Stop the slander.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 20:56 (nineteen years ago)

I am a quiet person with a progressive sociopolitical outlook. : (

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 10 September 2006 21:03 (nineteen years ago)

Hot Hot Heat, take it to the noise board.

― just say no to individuality (fandango), Sunday, 10 September 2006 21:21 (nineteen years ago)

Turangalila you're not making sense of Rihm's music. Collagists aren't usually academics (= or dry)* about their music. Did you just google quotes about him using 12-tone music? First of all, the list of composer Rihm was bracketed with is totally fine. Secondly, I've also read (and it certainly sound like that) that he doesn't adhere to a strict system and uses whatever he wants. He does place 'riffs' from one piece to another so there is the collagist side to him, but having multiple approaches, unlike Boulez or Carter, doesn't sound bad at all.

*of course academics/freelancers is only a job description, it doesn't say anything about the quality of the music that has been written.

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Monday, 11 September 2006 08:43 (nineteen years ago)

I take my hat off to VDP for orchestrating 12 mins of a 'meandering' song, presumably listening to it over and over and fitting in bits all the way through it.

At least we get to listen to the finished product and decide it's tough going. Must have been a buggr to transcribe!

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 11 September 2006 08:51 (nineteen years ago)

Julio, I admit my ignorance on most of Rihm's music, so yes, I googled about him to corroborate my own impression about what I heard years ago. Secondly, I never used any of his characteristics to denote anything about the quality of his music. I only said it sounded dull and humorless. Third, I specified he didn't adhere to a strict 12-tone system, but who does anymore, really? Strict is out of fashion.

But, yeah if rubbing in your "superior" knowledge on the subject in a cocky way (and completely missing my point in the process) makes you feel any better about yourself, go ahead.

― Turangalila (Salvador), Monday, 11 September 2006 08:57 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry if thats the way it came across I just wanted some clarification bcz I wasn't sure what yr point on his music, actually, apart from the bad humour and that he ws just plain bad. Its hard to tell about that quality of his music, from what I've heard (and he has composed far too much). I never feel he is trying to make you laugh or smugly smirk or anything like that.

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Monday, 11 September 2006 09:05 (nineteen years ago)

The lyrics are all in the, er, lyric booklet funnily enough, I'd have transcribed them myself if someone asked nicely. OK, and paypalled me a load of money

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Monday, 11 September 2006 09:42 (nineteen years ago)

I listened to this while driving to the airport in the rain yesterday morning, and it sounded splendid.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 11 September 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

CRITIC/SCHOLAR? More like a HYPE MACHINE.

Album of the Decade

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 17 September 2006 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

Which decade?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 17 September 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

you caught some small death when you were sleepwalking
does this mean what i think it does?
-- Amateur(ist) (am[email protected]) (webmail), September 9th, 2006 5:29 PM. (Amateur(ist)) (link)
It sure does.

-- Edward III (ehonaue...) (webmail), September 9th, 2006 5:35 PM. (edward iii)(link)

I'm not so sure...

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 17 September 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

Just got this in the post, it's basically the best thing ever to happen to music.

― Nedpoleon (NedBeauman), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

i can't figure out that "you caught some small death when you were sleepwalking" line either.

― spastic heritage (spastic heritage), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

Edward has it all figured out. Just ask him.

― cosmo vitelli (cosmo vitelli), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

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