Has Led Zeppelin Dated Poorly?

this is a hypothetical that cannot be proven. Certainly Rod could've sold those songs to someone else, who could have similarly hired QJ (who was obviously on a hot streak in the early 80s and was also a dependably versatile and creative producer - see his stints arranging for Frank Sinatra in the 60s, sdtk work etc.)

Quincy's "hot streak" in the early 80s was pretty much limited to Off The Wall (which was 1979 anyways), Diana Ross' 1982 album (which was crap), and Thriller...and if Michael's "Billie Jean" demo is any indication, Jones didn't/couldn't add too much to Michael's arrangements.

Oh, and Michael sang on those tracks, so like with Sinatra and Elvis (and countless others), who gives a shit who wrote them? His singing on Thriller defines unfuckwithable.

There's plenty of music that's less than a decade old that has dated worse than Led Zep, and that proves nothing because it's not a linear process.

This is very OTM.

Look at those readers' lists of Best Albums Ever, for instance. In the wake of Britpop, The Beatles dominated more than they had done since before punk. And "All Mod Cons" and "Quadrophenia" were gaining classic status.
In the early 00s, The Beatles were a bit more down the charts while a lot of Aretha Franklin and Otis Redding would get into the listings in the wake of R&B's popularity. And you also had The Stooges and stuff like that performing better than ever in the wake of the "nu garage" thing. In the most recent (around mid oughties) Q list, there was suddenly a lot of hard rock (Iron Maiden, Metallica) as the kids were then getting into hard rock more than for a long time.

Quincy's "hot streak" in the early 80s was pretty much limited to Off The Wall (which was 1979 anyways), Diana Ross' 1982 album (which was crap), and Thriller...and if Michael's "Billie Jean" demo is any indication, Jones didn't/couldn't add too much to Michael's arrangements.

"The Dude", anyone?

^^^James Ingram, bitche

o like with Sinatra and Elvis (and countless others), who gives a shit who wrote them?

I do! You can totally chart these artists' best work by who they working with at the time (Sinatra w/Riddle, Elvis w/Sam Philips, etc.)

His singing on Thriller defines unfuckwithable.

when I hear it now all I think of is this

heeeheee chamoanya chickachicka

Again, that's your hangup.

I could just as easily say its YOUR hangup to privelege performers over writers or producers but what's the point of that exactly

The point is that you're flat-out wrong about Michael Jackson in the court of popular opinion, which is the only court that matters when considering his legacy. People think he is a completely tragic freak who's probably done some awful things to children who is also responsible for one of the greatest albums ever recorded; your music geek tendencies do not change this.

wtf do I care about the court of popular opinion

your music geek tendencies do not change this.

A lot of music geeks think Thriller is pretty great, too.

the king really never was the most rightious person to be on the throne...otherwise we might not need this democracy thing we play at...

the one guy that died in killing joke liked to fuck fish.

which is the only court that matters when considering his legacy

also I don't think this is true. history clearly shows that what was most popular during its day is not always what endures or becomes considered important - and this is because popular opinion is not an institution that enshrines cultural narratives, that's something that's done by media and academic institutions (which, I will grant you, are not going to overlook Michael Jackson for a number of reasons, but let's not go any farther with this WHAT'S POPULAR IS THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS twaddle)

x-post

Okay so if you're granting that Michael Jackson has been annointed by everyone as The King of Pop, what exactly is your argument here beyond "I am whiny and contrary"?

he anointed himself with that title

I think the "Thriller is one of the greatest albums of all time" is the more popular meme of the two.

and yes I disagree with it, cuz, well, cuz it isn't.

I mean I REALLY don't think his legacy is gonna include being the "King of Pop". As time passes I'd wager that moniker's gonna be seen as the clumsy publicity stunt that it was, and not some kind of bonafide title that he earned or something. Certainly as he becomes more pathetic in his declining years, there's gonna be some serious re-evaluations of his "legacy" and his body of work.

(we are WAY off-topic now, sorry)

This period saw Jackson enjoy "a level of superstardom previously known only to Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and Frank Sinatra."(62) This success led to him to be dubbed the "King of Pop",(2). The nickname was conceived by actress and friend Elizabeth Taylor when she presented Jackson with an "Artist of the Decade" award in 1989, proclaiming him "the true king of pop, rock and soul."(63)

3 seconds on Wikipedia to refute the "he called himself 'The King of Pop'" claim.

can I just say i love this thread. only on ILM can 50% of the posts on a Led Zep thread be about Michael Jackson...

e.g. you get people who are pretty into music by any country's standards who literally haven't heard of Rush or CCR.

-- caek, Thursday, February 28, 2008 9:41 PM (52 minutes ago) Bookmark Link
totally OTM
I know Fortunate Son. that's it.

hey guys, have your heard that yoko ono song, "what a waste"?

I'm with Shakey on Jax, even though I disagree with him on Sabbath v. Zep.

"get people who are pretty into music by any country's standards who literally haven't heard of Rush or CCR."

Depressing.

lolz @ Elizabeth Taylor as objective bestower of royal titles wtf dan

we should join together to bring more ccr to the youth of the world!

I mean CLEARLY she did that without any prompting or orchestration on the part of MJ's media team, and the title was arrived at via careful and thorough deliberation

we should join together to bring more ccr to the youth of the world!

a cause we can all get behind

lol @ Shakey being Shakey

(Basically, the genesis of the title is not nearly as important as the fact that everyone basically picked it up and ran with it, practically en masse; first in the media, then in the business and people's everyday lives. It is now a moniker by which he is known and your "but he doesn't DESERVE it!" stance doesn't actually make any sense.)

Holy Crap did this thread take off again.

alls i knows is that you still see 10-year olds in Led Zeppelin t-shirts. you won't see anyone in Beyonce shirts ten years from now.

Not for nothing, but I don't see a lot of Beyonce shirts now, but then -- Beyonce fans don't seem to be the t-shirt type. Moreover, t-shirt sales and popularity (or album sales or merit or even awareness) aren't really parallel. Witness the vast number of Motorhead, Ramones, Iron Maiden and CBGB shirts worn by people who've never actually heard those bands or been to that venue. People are posers.

Alex, you're smarter than this.

Who knows or CARES

Dan is the majority ever wrong in your world

who knows or CARES what "people" will listen to in 20 years? The job of a critic is to unearth things people overlook and say great stuff about it if it deserves the praise.

Alex, you're smarter than this.

Hahahaha... don't be so sure.

agreeed

the role of the critic is also to ignore loathsome icons in favor of exciting new things.

critics have jobs?

"Who knows or CARES what "people" will listen to in 20 years?"

OTM. If anything, it will be something everybody here despises, or just isn't aware of.

Vampire Weekend?

no..just callings

Dan is the majority ever wrong in your world

Dan "Slave To The Majority" Perry, that's me. That's why I like The Cure and My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult so much.

If you're going to say stupid shit and not actually think, there's not much point in talking to you.

OTM. If anything, it will be something everybody here despises, or just isn't aware of.

Hanna Montana and Hillary Duff and Paris Hilton and The Cheetah Girls.

(The non-mean version of my last post is "What is the point of paying attention to a fringe opinion on a massively popular, massively successful artist with proven longevity and universal appeal?" but I need to go home so I can't continue banging my head against this worse-than-Geir wall of willful illogic.)

zeppeling fucking rules

lock thread

What is the point of paying attention to a fringe opinion on a massively popular, massively successful artist with proven longevity and universal appeal?

yes what is the point of minority opinions, why don't they just shut up already

Shakey, all Dan is suggesting is that a band with Zep's sales figures (I mean, have you checked them?) and cultural exposure will never disappear.

finally you're talking some sense. xp

there is so much wrong on this thread

I don't think they really dated at all, they just have groupies lined up and ready to go.

people won't be wearing this thread's t-shirt in 20 years, i'll tell ya that for free

will anyone remember laughter?