Betty Davis

I'm just surprised is all. You're one of the guys I respect here the most. Given the intelligence of most of your posts (especially on ILX), reading that you're tired of journos needing "to spend their talents talking about things they don't like" made me go wtf, especially when you don't mince words on the political threads.

War of Aesthetics... taking the required either/or position on what an artform should or shouldn't do

How is anybody doing this in relation to Betty Davis, exactly? People are just saying they don't love the record. (And how is loving it any less taking a side in a "War of Aesthetics," whatever that means, than not loving it?)

someone respects me?! what universe is this

politics are one of those complicated nuances I was ref'ing to - obviously I don't have a problem taking (at times strident) political positions, but that is usually a result of a deeply ingrained desire for, y'know, people to stop killing each other and live in peace and harmony and all that "hippie bullshit". And sometimes that overlaps with music/art/whathaveyou in all kinds of ways (for ex. I know xhuhx loves him some Montgomery Gentry, country guys that, based on the POV expressed in their work, I find largely repellant and would never really want to listen to or financially support.)

x-post

xp Also, I think it's pretty clear that most of the people criticizing Betty Davis's music (Matos included) are people for whom she does hold a certain "basic appeal". Her music just doesn't live up to what that appeal leads them to hope for. (I.E., her hair and clothes promise a funkiness her voice can't pull off.)

How is anybody doing this in relation to Betty Davis, exactly?

well, for one example, see Matos' claims about her voice and what it doesn't do (it ignores the beat - what's wrong with ignoring the beat? why should I care if it ignores the beat at all?)

I hold to my original position that what REALLY seems to annoy the Betty haterz is the breathless admiration she's been given by a small cadre of critics and record collectors.

Should movie reviewers only write about movies they like, too? And what about restaurant critics?

sure why not

LOCK THREAD AND/OR BRAINS

xgau:

Betty Davis [Just Sunshine, 1973]
Between her connections (wife of Miles, girlfriend of Jimi) and her concept (autonomous black woman forges metal funk), Betty's got a head start in the hype department. She makes up for these advantages, however, with a forced, narrow voice and a complete absence of riff sense or melodic gift. On the other hand, she--or producer-drummer Greg Errico of the Family Stone--does know a lot about rhythm. Upshot: most overstated comic-book sex since Angelfood McSpade. B-

matos is a 'clown'??? :-O

board beef

Who cares what this guy thinks. Music Reviewers get on my nerves, pretentious college kids with a dictionary and a mouth full of shit.

lolol

oof I dunno about that Angelfood McSpade ref, that's uh... in poor taste at the very least

Upshot: most overstated comic-book sex since Angelfood McSpade. B-

Let the record show that this is the same Robert Christgau who gave Sonic Youth's Grateful Dead tribute album (aka, A Thousand Leaves, aka worse than the album Grandpa released) an A+.

Let the record also show that the witness made the "drinky-drinky" motion.

slow clap.

hahaha from that SoulStrut thread:

The main thing I remember reading by him was a meditation about being nudged back from the brink of suicide by the wonders contained with the Mo Wax Headz box set (yes, I am for real).

hahaha no you are NOT for real, because that's never happened in my life.

I think you should fire off an angry e-mail correcting them

how about a petulant one that wonders why people have to disagree with me in public?

or you could write a mean-spirited kiss-off song and call it "Dedicated to the Internets"

man, i love statler and waldorf. more! more!

you know what my favorite part of Matos' review was? the end!

btw i'll expect complete lists of records KJB and matos like so we can point out massive hypocrisy re: vocals. thanks.

-- GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ, Friday, June 15, 2007 8:44 AM

M.I.A. Hold Steady Moldy Peaches

Should movie reviewers only write about movies they like, too? And what about restaurant critics?

sure why not

LOCK THREAD AND/OR BRAINS

-- Matos W.K

It's not an entirely unreasonable/illogical position. Nobody has enough time to read EVERY review of EVERYTHING that's out there. If critics only wrote about things they liked and IGNORED what they didn't like, then the people who read them would know everything that was worth listening to (ie. EVERYTHING that was written about). Everything else, who cares? it's very existence wouldn't even be acknowledged, we wouldn't have to waste time reading about or even thinking about it, much less listening.

Of course, all of that is based on the assumption that all critics are right all the time (they are, aren't they?), and that their chief function is consumer advocates (they are, aren't they?)

(Also assumes that we all would rather read positive than negative things in general, which isn't always the case. I'd love to live in a world where only good things happen and the newspapers had nothing but good news - who wouldn't? But, shit, Pauline Kael was always so much funnier and just plain fun to read when she was being excessively nasty. And I felt that way even when I disagreed with her, which was frequently. All of my favourite critics, the ones I enjoy reading, I enjoy despite tastes that may differ wildly from mine - I'd guesstimate that Xgau would have no use for 40% of the stuff on my shelves & vice versa.

(And by "critics" I'm referring not only to the actual pros, but also the folks who write not a single word aside from what they post to ILM both at home and at work (when the boss isn't looking).

The Sound of Young America podcast has her first radio interview since the 70's!

http://www.maximumfun.org/blog/2007/06/podcast-tsoya-betty-davis.html

On Amazon's "The Complete On the Corner Sessions" page, there's a video where Michael Henderson talks about Betty and says, "Her tattoo says it all: 'The Ass That Started Fusion'."

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Corner-Sessions-Miles-Davis/dp/B000TLMWMO/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1194565441&sr=8-1

this thread was fucking wack.

Yeah, and I imagine that tat' ain't what it used to be.

i duno how many ppl read the paper matos writes for (not a dig, just a query) but i hope it didnt dissuade anyone from investigating the reissues. cos theyre all brilliant.

Have got myself teh anthology. Like it rather lots. :)

so there's a new album of unreleased material from 1976 on light in the attic. samples sound pretty cool. anyone heard the whole thing? "is it love or desire" is the title.

Does she sing better?

than what?

than me?

i don't know, sing into the screen and let's find out.

I tried it -- I still sing better than she does.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/3118060375_dea16d9ceb.jpg

does it really matter whether she can sing like Chaka Khan or not? i mean, who cares? you either dig the sound of her records or you don't. i can take 'em or leave 'em myself (primarily depending on what mood/state of mind i'm in really).

You said, Chaka Khan, not me. As Matos and xhuck said upthread, she can barely hold a tune, and that matters (and I'm a Bernard Sumner fan).

I used to beat him with a turquoise chain!

Ok so Abbott is invited to my dance party. Some of these other folks I dunno about.

Was anyone else underwhelmed by the "new" album? :I

Wow so much hate for Betty Davis on this thread. I always hated people putting too much high expectation on black females voices. More than anyone else, a black woman's voice is the most scrutinized in music IMO. Betty's voice goes well with the music IMO. She mostly plays an attitude driven funk warrior and her voice fits that. Technicality of voice usually doesn't apply in those situations. (Funk and rock as shown examples of this with the male musicians).

I loved discovering Betty Davis. I think her albums are cool and in a way she is a lost treasure because her influence wasn't apparent (if she had any). I really love her second album and have it on vinyl. I always thought Grace Jones was the only bat shit crazy black female artist and glad their was a US born counterpart. (I know Betty was crazy only on stage and not offstage apparently).

It's strange how their are so many male artist who admire her than female. I would like to know how female artists thought of her. It seems like the only person who reminds me of her is Joi. (Who doesn't have her own ILM topic btw. Talk about blasphemy!!!) Plus I heard she did an album with Miles but it got scrapped. Since both have an abrasive tone to her instruments I wonder if that would be interesting or headache inducing to listen to.

Wow so much hate for Betty Davis on this thread.

Sometimes ILM should be IHM.

buncha jerks on this thread

maybe some will have changed their mind on it.

TBF I could imagine someone like xgau in 1973 just drowning in funk records and not thinking much of Betty Davis. I mean like every third record that came out had a funky-as-hell beat so it probably took a little more to impress. And they're not really great records.

dude citing Angelfood McSpade in his review is some fairly indefensible racist garbage. sorry "Dean".

wtf

didn't xgau call Hendrix a psychedelic uncle tom or something? or was that someone else. in his defense, I can see how Betty Davis records could be seen as cartoonish. not a bad thing, in my opinion -- i think they're fun records in that way.

you can call something cartoonish without referencing an explicitly sexist/racist caricature of a horny african tribeswoman in a grass skirt with Black Sambo lips

yes, true.

xgau:

Betty Davis [Just Sunshine, 1973]
Between her connections (wife of Miles, girlfriend of Jimi) and her concept (autonomous black woman forges metal funk), Betty's got a head start in the hype department. She makes up for these advantages, however, with a forced, narrow voice and a complete absence of riff sense or melodic gift. On the other hand, she--or producer-drummer Greg Errico of the Family Stone--does know a lot about rhythm. Upshot: most overstated comic-book sex since Angelfood McSpade. B-

What an arsehole