Sonic Youth: Classic or Dud/S&D?

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Sonic Youth is/was the perfect expression of a specific thing and anyone who likes noisy guitars and rock should find something to hold dear to their heart. This has been taking place for years, when working at my local record score in college in 96 my friend who loved the Dead C. and Skullflower was looking at a sale table including Confusion is Sex/Kill Yr. Idols CD on dgc and I suggested it and she looked at me like I was recommending the Goo Goo Dolls. I had no idea anyone could think of Sonic Youth as being anything less then godlike, because when I got into them in the mid to late 80s they blew my mind way open. By that time they were getting poppier, but not quite at the Dirty stage of actually trying to be a youthfull hardcore band(which I didn't like much) Teenage Riot is the power-pop skate-rock epic art-punk song that get's me out of be every morning, Expressway to Yr Skull is the psychedelic noise explosion that knocks me out every night.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I first heard SY when I was 15. The first albums I had were Experimental Jet Set and Washing Machine, both of which I think are classic and unfairly maligned.

Oddly enough, I had a conversation this morning with a co-worker who said he used to like SY but thinks they took a major nosedive with those two albums. For him, SY was never better than the five-year period between Daydream Nation and Dirty. Of course, he's five years older than me and I think those were probably the first three SY albums he ever heard, back when he was a teenager.

(And meanwhile, though I like Dirty and Goo okay, I hardly ever listen to them.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

don' t know if I'm older, but maybe started listening to Sonic Youth earlier then your co-worker, I'm tend to love their entire career up to Daydream Nation, with Goo having a few tracks I like, Dirty one or two, and I stopped following after that, though I did get a copy of Washing Machine and thought it had moments as well. But they changed, or were always changing, and I changed, or whatever, and even if they put something out that was just like Sister, which wouldn't make sense now anyway, I don't know that I'd be into it.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

In order (only real albums and I haven't heard the new one):

Evol
Confusion is Sex
Sister
Bad Moon Rising
Experimental Jet Set
Daydream Nation
A Thousand Leaves
Dirty
Goo
NYC Ghosts & Flowers
Washing Machine

(Note: I don't think Sonic Youth has yet released a truly bad album so even the last five on my list have some great moments.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think Sonic Youth has yet released a truly bad album

AHEM:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd800/d808/d80872xi202.jpg

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drd200/d284/d28473xgh9r.jpg

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

silver session is quite pretty!

― Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Mr. Snrub is here again with his 'where are the tunes' schtick shockah!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Snrub I did say REAL ALBUMS above. I haven't heard all the six million side-projects, EPs and various other silliness. I like the Silver Session thing too though.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

this "posting a picture of the album cover instead of just saying the title" deal is really getting old.

my favorite SY albums are dirty and confusion is sex, weirdly enough. i still can't sit through daydream nation without falling asleep.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 22:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Seriously, I really like their new album!!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 11 May 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

eight months pass...

Kim Gordon sings crap on purpose - it's her style.
It's so fine-tuned to being totally off key at specifically brilliant moments.. it's kind of an Art.

I'm deadly serious in this opinion by the way. She's not so totally stoopid that she sings *that* badly. It's a cool druggy "i don't care, gimme what i want" attitude. Dirty's 'Swimsuit Issue' is a brilliant example; her vocals are so atrociously bad it's obvious that it's part of a style she's aware of & in attempting to achieve.

― Anansie, Friday, 21 January 2005 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh sure it's a style, but it still sounds like crap (just a value judgement.) (and there are exceptions.)

― Ian John50n (orion), Friday, 21 January 2005 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I've literally only heard SYR 1 and SYR 3. Am I on the right track or am I ruining myself for SY forever? Please advise.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 21 January 2005 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Look up the tracks in my post above.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 21 January 2005 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I love SYR 1 and SYR 3, but it all depends on what you're looking for in the band. Where are you coming at them from? From indie rock? From noise? From jazz? If you want pop songs or rock songs, search Evol through Daydream Nation as well as the Sonic Nurse and Washing Machine. For things (way) more open-ended, search Silver Session or SYR 4. For a combination of the two I'd suggest Bad Moon Rising for starters.

But, I love almost all of their albums.

― Ian John50n (orion), Friday, 21 January 2005 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Kim Gordon, with famous Jazz musician Matts Gustafsson,
for anyone doubting that her bad singing is a 'perfected style'
rather than accidental:

http://www.mp3search.ru/album.html?id=19676

Here, Matts off-key jazz accompanies her off-key verbal meanderings..

― Anansie, Friday, 21 January 2005 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Anansie do you have perfect pitch? I wish I had perfect pitch, or at least an ear trained well enough to recognize these things. Still, whether it's 'well done' and whether it's 'good' are two entirely separate issues.

― Ian John50n (orion), Friday, 21 January 2005 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Y'know what, I think it's this 'tongue-in-cheek' humour & playfulness which is key to appreciating many aspects of Sonic Youth.
Like Kim Gorden's voice, it's so perfectly off-key it has an addictive quality.. you mind starts naturally predicting what off-key note she will hit next; and aftertime you get good at doing this.
Addictively trashy, druggy voice; when you start to take SY less seriously, they become enjoyable. You can laugh at the things that are meant to be funny. Her style & attitude makes me smile, grin, laugh. Many of their lyrics are blatantly carp/stoopid/silly but said/sung in such an 'earnest' way makes it hillarious. We're *meant* to find a lot of it funny. They will never announce this intention, if they did, that special something which *makes them* would be lost.

― Anansie, Friday, 21 January 2005 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Ian.. I agree that essentially, the voice you hear on the record is crap. We both agree that it's an intentional style right? If not, that's why I posted the link. Listen to the beginnings of some of the tracks (it's free).. and you'll see what I mean, plus it becomes 'obvious' that off-keyness is the intention pretty quick.
I find it very 'clever' in a very 'arty' way - but then again Sonic Youth are an Art Rock band. Singing perfectly off key isn't as easy as you think.. she really hits every off-key note perfectly, in a consitent dischordant pattern (a musician could probabally map it out in musical notation); here a definate pattern emerges, in SY any 'pattern' would get boring after a while, so occasionally she'll sing well, which collectively makes her vocals very interesting & addictive. Not for everyone, admittedly, but I definately love her voice, as do many others I'm sure.

― Anansie, Friday, 21 January 2005 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Anansie, I find your assessment of the 'Youth to be very much OTM, though I've never heard anyone describe it as such. Her vocals, the lyrics, the fact that you're not supposed to take it seriously. It's honest, but not too honest. Yes, that is a big part of their appeal for me, even if I don't own all their albums and wouldn't wish to. "Dirty" is definitely the high point.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 22 January 2005 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Art couched in a deceptive form of amateurism.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 22 January 2005 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Anansie, that album is excellent, probably the most successful SY avant/'art' project. Thanks for linking it. Track 3 in particular has some intense and arresting moments in the dynamics and textures. And you're right about KG's vocals - it really proves your point that what she's doing is technically calculated, something I wasn't always sure about. I haven't heard her pull off that type of 'jazzy' singing so well - it's a conclusion of things she was trying on Thousand Leaves and the SYR projects but it seems much more fully realized and successful than those.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Sunday, 23 January 2005 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

four months pass...

and for point of comparison look at her vocal on 'kotton krown'; if she can sing that well it's not as if she sounds the way she does everywhere else just because she can't hack it somehow.

― Josh (Josh), Sunday, 29 May 2005 09:27 (twenty-one years ago)

five months pass...

Shangri-la's: Past, Present, Future is the reference point for every Kim Gordon spoken-word song I think. I know some SY songs reference the group as well. Thought I'd share.

― Cunga (Cunga), Saturday, 5 November 2005 08:44 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

So I dug out Made in USA for the first time in ten years and it's actually pretty cool.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 9 January 2006 21:01 (twenty years ago)

that might be the only one i DON'T have...
unless you count the Sonic Deth releases.
which i don't.

― eedd, Monday, 9 January 2006 22:19 (twenty years ago)

four weeks pass...

I've been trying to get some opinions on the reissues. Any thoughts? What should I get, Goo or Dirty?

― Freud Junior (Freud Junior), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 01:39 (twenty years ago)

i'd go with "goo"

― Christopher Costello (CGC), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 01:45 (twenty years ago)

"goo". But that's just cuz I hate "dirty". Has anybody mentioned that the first ep is being being re released in March??

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 01:55 (twenty years ago)

Hmmm, bonus tracks too:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/upcoming_releases/sonic_youth_-_sonic_life.html

I wasn't so hot on the EP when I first heard it (just post Confusion Is Sex) but it's aged nicely. Will be interesting to see how it's received the 3rd time around.

― dlp9001, Tuesday, 7 February 2006 02:37 (twenty years ago)

I have never heard it, which is why I reaaaally want to cuz I'm interested in what came BEFORE "Confusion is Sex", my total favorite.

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 02:52 (twenty years ago)

It's nothing like Confusion, which was the problem I had with it at the time.

― dlp9001, Tuesday, 7 February 2006 03:18 (twenty years ago)

I wasn't expecting Confision style stuff anyway from all the stuff I've heard about it, but I hope that it doesn't sound like anything else in their catalog.

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 03:37 (twenty years ago)

I love Dirty, and I love the first EP. I like Goo a lot less. The Bad Moon/Evol/Sister trilogy is probably my favorite stuff. Oddly, I don't really care for about half of Confusion. But that's just me. Anybody who likes it should definitely grab the first one.

Hi dlp!

― sleeve (sleeve), Tuesday, 7 February 2006 04:04 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

new front cover looks odd:

http://rateyourmusic.com/album_images/s409133.jpg

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 14:26 (twenty years ago)

Is it someone looking through a toilet seat??

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 14:35 (twenty years ago)

And is it my mind playing tricks, or did I read about a new Lee Ranaldo solo album of songs somewhere too?

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 14:38 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

i'm having an argument with a friend who says he doesn't like sy - his argument basically consists of "how many of their songs can you sing? i bet not any" (he is not a luddite, he's into lots of good stuff, but has a real block with certain bands, artier ones i guess). i seem to spend half my life wandering around singing sy songs under my breath but i think i'm a bit too close to it and half the time i'm singing the texture not the tune, if that makes any sense. so... request suggestions for a melody-based sy comp?

― emsk, Monday, 11 June 2007 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not sure if i've already commented somewhere on this thread, but of course classic.

and search pretty much the whole catalogue. at the very least, there's something interesting going on in all the records. don't really bother with the nyc ghosts and flowers thing though

― Charlie Howard, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

Jaymc made this poppy SY mix for me:

1. Expressway to Yr Skull (1986, Evol)
2. Schizophrenic (1987, Sister)
3. Teen Age Riot (1988, Daydream Nation)
4. Cross the Breeze (1988, Daydream Nation)
5. Kool Thing (1990, Goo)
6. Tunic (Song for Karen) (1990, Goo)
7. Sugar Kane (1992, Dirty)
8. Bull in the Heather (1994, Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star)
9. Skip Tracer (1995, Washing Machine)
10. Diamond Sea (Edit) (1995, Washing Machine)
11. Sunday (1997, A Thousand Leaves)
12. The Empty Page (2002, Murray Street
13. Unmade Bed (2004, Sonic Nurse
14. Reena (2006, Rather Ripped)
15. Incinerate (2006, Rather Ripped)

― Jordan, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:12 (nineteen years ago)

Hmm, how about Star Power?

― Colonel Poo, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

(In addition to Jordan's list)

― Colonel Poo, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

"how many of their songs can you sing? i bet not any" (he is not a luddite, he's into lots of good stuff, but has a real block with certain bands, artier ones i guess).

Is your friend's name Geir Hongro?

― Mr. Que, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

heheh! no...

― emsk, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

that comp looks good, a good start point anyway, thank you
i had wish fulfilment and my friend goo and madonna, sean and me down too
good?

― emsk, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

Madonna, Sean & Me = Expressway To Yr Skull :)

Tis good though yeah.

― Colonel Poo, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

re: NYCGF is to be entirely avoided. I don't generally adore Lee's foregrounded beat trips, but I think the title track on it is pretty thrillingly built, levelled, and released; the rest of the album is mostly meh or worse, though.

― West Lake Wallowing, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:43 (nineteen years ago)

haha i am useless
that's what i get for trying to do 4590 things at once

― emsk, Monday, 11 June 2007 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

euh, that mix above is like an amalgam of most of my least favorite SY tracks from those albums. except 'expressway to yr skull,' which is possibly the best poppy song SY have ever done.

― the table is the table, Monday, 11 June 2007 16:43 (nineteen years ago)

i really love their 'hated' albums, experimental jet set and NYCGAF... 'sweet shine' off ejt&ns just floors me every. single. time. kim's singing is sublime.

― stevie, Monday, 11 June 2007 17:05 (nineteen years ago)

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