slowdive: classic or dud?

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i've never heard pygmalion but neither of the other albums is what i would call a "great" album. 9.3 is surely way too high for Souvlaki, even by a hardcore fan's standards

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jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 06:16 (twenty years ago)

I think Souvlaki is damn near perfect, but could take or leave the other two.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 06:20 (twenty years ago)

i'm excited to get the just for a day reissue because i only have the early singles on vinyl and haven't heard them in a while. pygmalion is probably my favorite of the three, it's the one i certainly listen to the most.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 06:37 (twenty years ago)

Speaking not just for Pitchfork, but generally, I don't think 7.0 is an outstandingly high rating. 8.7s are given out frequently to (imo) all sorts of average flotsam, and 9.3 is perhaps a touch excessive, but for an album that (allegedly) stands up as a shining example of the genre a decade on it's perfectly understandable. And lets face it, the majority of broadly guitar-based music in this particular section of the marketplace has taken a collosal dive downwards in creativity levels since that time. I'd expect "Loveless" would be a straight 9.9 these days if up for reissue?

I think you have to use your own sense of adjustment with these things. I'm in aggreement with that scaruffi person frankly (http://www.scaruffi.com/music.html) ratings are over-inflated right across the board. They could sorely do with bringing in line with reality, but it's never going to happen whilst commercial pressures exist. Ratings kinda suck anyway but they're still useful (as the most limited gauge of quality possible).

fandango (fandango), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 06:54 (twenty years ago)

I think 9.3 is actually pretty low for 'Souvlaki', while, granted, 'Pygmalion' is pretty high.

Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 08:58 (twenty years ago)

Souvlaki and Pygmalion are rated about right, although Slowdive have always been one of my favourite bands.

I'd of given JFAD less than 7.0, even though i still enjoy it. The bonus stuff on JFAD is great though, alot of their best non-Souvlaki work was on those early singles.

They could have put bonus tracks on the Pygmalion release though, all the demos are avaliable on your favourite p2p (as well as the Souvlaki demos) and are pretty good as far as demos go.

splates (splates), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:08 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I know, I'm gutted that all these unreleased songs (from the Souvlaki era I imagine) have not been added to the bonus discs..

Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:15 (twenty years ago)

If it's really as good as it's meant to be (I only heard Souvlaki Space Station, the track a few weeks ago & I'm inclined to believe it may well be so) a 9.0 is still a huge mark of approval.

I'm not sure quibbling about decimals matters that much (retract what I said above ok?). I'd only consider it 'low' in an environment where everything else is absurdly exaggerated. 9 to me = exceptional, close to essential, a clearly influential & groundbreaking release (for reissues).

Didn't Clap Your Hands Say Yeah get a 9? =)

fandango (fandango), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:16 (twenty years ago)

But then, that fits with what Nabisco's saying, how these reissues aren't meant for the obsessive fans. A box set full of goodies would be nice for them/us.

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Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:17 (twenty years ago)

My take:

I saw Slowdive around ten times in and around Los Angeles for those first two albums. That drummer brought Just for a Day to life and was a madman on the kit. Some of my favorite B-sides are on those early EPs and are the extra traks for the first release. So I actually think JFAD is underrated because of the bonus disc. Souvlaki is right because it really is that good. I have owned Pygmalion since 2001 when I bought it at Amoeba San Francisco for cheep and never got into it. People love that album and I should find out why but that is around a 7.0 for me at the moment. Slowdive live blew me away because of their amazing drummer that you can’t really experience that aspect on record but live he made you pay attention.

BeeOK (boo radley), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:31 (twenty years ago)

Were you at that Roxy show on the Souvlaki tour?

Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:38 (twenty years ago)

You can't really justify rating JFAD for the bonus disc and giving it a higher mark. You have to rate the album not the bonus tracks. Definitely right though, the JFAD extra tracks are swell.

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splates (splates), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:40 (twenty years ago)

Were you at that Roxy show on the Souvlaki tour?

Was the date Monday April 11, 1994? Yes I was at that show, and was also at the raggedy place that was upstairs (maybe) can't find a stub for this show but was the only show I saw at this place. If I remember right it was off Hollywood Blvd, maybe Sunset and was a great show as well but bands shouldn’t have played this place but they did.

BeeOK (boo radley), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 09:50 (twenty years ago)

Yep, on Sunset in 1994. Great great show. I has such a crush on Rachel G at that time that my little teenage heart melted when I got to say hello after the show...

Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 10:40 (twenty years ago)

I shall be buying the Pygmalion reissue, as I completely blanked it first time out. Of course I'm taking youse guys' word for it that it's any good at all. (I am aph34r3d it may be as rub as Mojave 3.)

Anyone want to buy my copy of Souvlaki + Blue Day in 2CD set? I could then happily get the other 2 reissues.

Jeff W (zebedee), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 12:42 (twenty years ago)

Wasn't at the Roxy show but the show in Fullerton the day before (or day after). And that was mighty fine. I did see them at the Roxy the previous year opening for Catherine Wheel, though.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 13:21 (twenty years ago)

i would have switched the pfork ratings for souvlaki and pygmallion.

AaronK (AaronK), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 13:31 (twenty years ago)

Haha, yes I know the Roxy is on Sunset. I was actually talking about another time I saw them at this place that was in an upstairs club off Sunset I think. It felt like it was someone living room or something like that, never did see another show at that place. I was also head over heels in love with Rachel as well. Never did know they played in Fullerton the next night as that was just right around the corner of where I lived at the time and would of went to that show if known. I did see Ride/Slowdive at the Coach House the tour before however, great double bill that one was.

BeeOK (boo radley), Thursday, 1 December 2005 01:24 (twenty years ago)

Saw Ride/Slowdive at the Palace the day after -- and the day after that the Pale Saints opened instead! And this was the last tour with Ian in the band too. Swank.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 December 2005 01:29 (twenty years ago)

This is what I saw in about one month in 1992:

April 24 - Teenage Fanclub (Fairfax High School)
April 25 – The Charlatans (Palace)
April 28 - The Sugarcubes (Palace)
May 9 – Catherine Wheel (Whisky A Go Go)
May 18 – Blur (Palace)
May 28 – Ride with Slowdive (Coach House)
May 29 – Ride with Slowdive (Palace)
May 30 – Ride with Pale Saints (Palace)
June 2 – Pale Saints (Whisky A Go Go)

Not to forget the Cure twice at the end of June that year.

Time of my life…

BeeOK (boo radley), Thursday, 1 December 2005 02:01 (twenty years ago)

"Rutti" = best opening song to any album EVAH!! must... find... guitar tabs...

Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:50 (twenty years ago)

i remember the days when you wanted to see both bands at a show ride/lush, ride/slowdive, slowdive/catherine wheel, catherine wheel/house of love(i have blacked out ocean colour scene although they were still sorta swirly at that time), curve/majesty crush, curve/spiritualized/jamc, revolver/drop nineteens, kitchens of distinction/bleach, pale saints, chapterhouse. now i must sit through four bands i don't want to hear before the one band i sorta want to hear.

keyth (keyth), Thursday, 1 December 2005 04:21 (twenty years ago)

Keyth were you in Los Angeles in the early 90s as well? I saw almost all those shows: ride/lush (yes), ride/slowdive (yes), slowdive/catherine wheel (yes), catherine wheel/house of love/ocean colour scene* (yes), curve/majesty crush (nope), curve/spiritualized/jamc/medicine (yes), revolver/drop nineteens (yes), kitchens of distinction/bleach (nope), pale saints (yes), chapterhouse (fuck yeah).

I don’t make that many shows anymore, since moving back to Los Angeles, because 1) in San Francisco they were right outside my door and didn’t have to drive miles and miles. 2) Ticketmaster can go to HELL!

*I know ILM hates OCS but they were a great live band and became much better as the years went on. Everything doesn’t need to be new and inventive all the time, stealing from the best is OK every once in awhile.


I don’t make that many shows anymore, since moving back to Los Angeles, because 1) in San Francisco they were right outside my door and didn’t have to drive miles and miles. 2) Ticketmaster can go to HELL!

BeeOK (boo radley), Thursday, 1 December 2005 04:48 (twenty years ago)

April 24 - Teenage Fanclub (Fairfax High School)
April 25 – The Charlatans (Palace)
April 28 - The Sugarcubes (Palace)
May 9 – Catherine Wheel (Whisky A Go Go)
May 18 – Blur (Palace)
May 28 – Ride with Slowdive (Coach House)
May 29 – Ride with Slowdive (Palace)
May 30 – Ride with Pale Saints (Palace)
June 2 – Pale Saints (Whisky A Go Go)

In order -- remember hearing about it, missed it, saw it (but it was the Wiltern!), missed it, saw it (I remember Damon ambling out on stage with the Moz quiff and everyone going "MORRISSEY!"), missed it, saw it, saw it, missed it (so annoyingly because the Red House Painters opened!).

In there, though, I did see the Wedding Present/Poster Children, Verlaines/Yo La Tengo, and Soundgarden/Swervedriver/Monster Magnet.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 December 2005 04:51 (twenty years ago)

will these ever see domestic release? all three of them were calling to me from the other music shelf today, but they were all $24 or something.

poortheatre (poortheatre), Thursday, 1 December 2005 06:43 (twenty years ago)

Nothing that was put on on Castle UK has been put out in the USA. (speculation that this won't change anytime soon.)

BeeOK (boo radley), Thursday, 1 December 2005 06:54 (twenty years ago)

Not actually true, if you mean in general -- for instance, a large number of the Fall reissues were released over here as well.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 1 December 2005 06:55 (twenty years ago)

Pygmalion is unbelievably great - my fave of theirs (and this is from someone who originally switched off after the first couple EP's).

Paul (scifisoul), Thursday, 1 December 2005 07:13 (twenty years ago)

You actually do lean something new everyday. Still I don't think Slowdive will be one of these that will see release in the US.

BeeOK (boo radley), Thursday, 1 December 2005 07:39 (twenty years ago)

Rutti love seconded. It's got that pacific surfer mystique that Neil H. seems to have eventually absorbed. Sucha

Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Thursday, 1 December 2005 08:40 (twenty years ago)

Rutti love seconded. It's got that pacific surfer mystique that Neil H. seems to have eventually absorbed. Such a great opener

Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Thursday, 1 December 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

rutti love thirded.

i'm not sure you'd get much out of a guitar tab though :)

AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 1 December 2005 13:40 (twenty years ago)

The packaging of the souvlaki reissue sort of sucks: the original cover(?) as shown on allmusic seems a lot prettier, the typography on this is hideous and seems like an afterthought and "40 Days" is consistently mentioned as "Days". Aside from that: nice reissue..

barnaby69, Sunday, 11 December 2005 22:51 (twenty years ago)

do they come in fancy cardboard fold out packaging thingies?

Christopher Costello (CGC), Sunday, 11 December 2005 23:58 (twenty years ago)

and are they released in the US yet?

Christopher Costello (CGC), Sunday, 11 December 2005 23:58 (twenty years ago)

99% of sane people agree that slowdive is probably classic. but the real question is this:

"MOJAVE 3: DUD OR CLASSIC DUD?"

is there such thing as changing a posts title?

corey c (shock of daylight), Monday, 12 December 2005 06:40 (twenty years ago)

The packaging of the souvlaki reissue sort of sucks: the original cover(?) as shown on allmusic seems a lot prettier, the typography on this is hideous and seems like an afterthought and "40 Days" is consistently mentioned as "Days". Aside from that: nice reissue..

OTM. Maybe it's all in my jead but I do think the sound has been impoved nicely, adding texture here and there, and I'm glad to have 'So Tired' and 'In Mind', but jeez talk about awful packaging. But that's the original cover afraid (the superior black one was for the susbequent US domestic release).

Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Monday, 12 December 2005 13:25 (twenty years ago)

Souvlaki and Just For A Day are available at indie record stores that have bothered to order them- I picked both up at Amoeba in LA last week, though there were only a few copies each. No sign of Pygmalion, yet, and I called around a bit.

jsoulja (jsoulja), Monday, 12 December 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

The original Souvlaki cover is better. The re-issue is nicer by design, but the original has a larger image of Rachel Goswell, who at least in those days was smoking hot and my total dream girl...

jsoulja (jsoulja), Monday, 12 December 2005 15:37 (twenty years ago)

Well, I think you will find that she still is...

Baaderonixx weaves a daisy chain for... SATAN!! (baaderonixx), Monday, 12 December 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

not after that solo album of hers she aint

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

Oh I think she's still really cute, and let's face it- girls who are really into shoegazer bands (let alone in one) are very, very HOT....

jsoulja (jsoulja), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 01:11 (twenty years ago)

Does anyone know the track listing for the "i am the elephant u are the mouse" thing is?.

Christopher Costello (CGC), Monday, 19 December 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

1. I believe
2. Money
3. Painting
4. Like Up
5. Ports Theme #1
6. Nightmare
7. Ports Theme #2

BeeOK (boo radley), Monday, 19 December 2005 06:54 (twenty years ago)

there's 19 tracks on the version i have.

Christopher Costello (CGC), Monday, 19 December 2005 07:06 (twenty years ago)

I downloaded this off the usual sk but was a slowdive file that had over 50 rare songs on it. So those 7 songs are in a row and labeled to that soundtrack but only added up to about 21 minutes, so I’m guessing you are right about the amount of songs. I probably have the rest of those songs but they are tagged demos or something, sorry I can’t help anymore.

BeeOK (boo radley), Monday, 19 December 2005 07:19 (twenty years ago)

Cardboard? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

poortheatre (poortheatre), Monday, 19 December 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

"MOJAVE 3: DUD OR CLASSIC DUD?"

is there such thing as changing a posts title?

but all of their albums are great. the last one will be treasured by many someday. it is hard to convince people of this. i think i will go listen to it now. the first song is so 'let it flow'.

they do need to stop making solo albums.

keyth (keyth), Monday, 19 December 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

i liked neil's solo album OK enough.

mojave 3 albums are great. i listen to them a lot more than slowdive, who i adored. do i really need this re-issue business? i have all the albums, the early EPs on vinyl, and some mega-track thing called 'staring at the sun' or somesuch i snagged from slsk...

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

Honestly I burned out on Mojave 3 quick after that (quite excellent) first album. They achieved a drowned-piano sound on that one they haven't quite gotten again since, and ultimately I think the Walkabouts (say) do the male/female vocal-with-country-hints balancing act with more range and talent, if not quite as consistent in terms of duets.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)


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