RFI: Border Community - Nathan Fake, James Holden, The MFA, Petter etc.

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Did anyone here read the Dissensus thread where everyone took the extreme opposite position to biz? Beatmatching four-to-the-floor beats is the work of a diabolical simpleton! Death to house! etc. etc.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 26 August 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

yes I follwed that. But part of the problem is that most of Dissensus is more grime/dancehall orientated, and kind of dislikes the Euro-decadence of electro/kompakt. 'Lineality' was also used as a stick with which to beat house.

― Barnaby (Barnaby), Friday, 26 August 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

But part of the problem is that most of Dissensus is more grime/dancehall orientated, and kind of dislikes the Euro-decadence of electro/kompakt.

(I infer)

― Barnaby (Barnaby), Friday, 26 August 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

Yeah I know. I just find it funny that I'm often taking opposite sides of the arguments at each site.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 26 August 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

and on that discussion it was more house as an entirity vs. everything else, rather than pretty subtle oppositions within house.

― Barnaby (Barnaby), Friday, 26 August 2005 14:19 (twenty years ago)

good morning! glad to return to the debate. my focus on long beatmixing was a bit one sided. as stated above, mixing at the right point in a song is ultimately what's important. many of the tracks Mayer/Superpitch play are "songs" instead of "tracks" and aren't constructed to facilitate a long mix. on the other hand, the "tracks" Sasha plays all have 64 bars of isolated kicks and snares/hi-hats to blend into the previous record. If the song is not constructed that way, Sasha re-edits the track to allow that type of mixing. as long as the DJ understands mix-points and song structure, and brings in the tracks accordingly, they're going to sound good. Sasha's Involver and Fundacion are much more "artist albums" than either Mayer or Superpitchers mixes (Fabric 13 + Today), despite the fact that i like both Fab13 and Today more than either Sasha mix. I'd love to see Mayer live so i can understand his approach better. It's a bit unfair to judge him on mixes created for home listening. I think mixes like Involver, DE9 and the Scion Basic Channel mix have raised the bar for Dj's wanting to create a listening experience and believe Mayer still has lots of room to improve. Long mixes don't have to be bland. In fact, when done properly, the listener doesn't realize the songs are in the mix until a recognizable element from the next track takes over.

I too read the Dissensus thread and found it a bit laughable. Those guys must have fecal matter up to their shoulders with their heads shoved so far up their asses. Good music is good music no matter what the tempo/beat structure/production quality and all genre's have bright spots to go along with the low points. When Grime dies (or is it dead already) they'll be dry humping the next fad with the most street cred.

― biz, Friday, 26 August 2005 14:30 (twenty years ago)

wait, let me get the popcorn

― fe7 (FE7), Friday, 26 August 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

the listener doesn't realize the songs are in the mix until a recognizable element from the next track takes over

boooring. wait, before i say that, do i have to read the previous 100 posts? if so, nevermind.

― jermaine (jnoble), Friday, 26 August 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

sorry biz, that songs/tracks distinction is total fucking bullshit.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 26 August 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

nathan fake "is not a dj, has never been a dj and probably never will be a dj".

― dh, Friday, 26 August 2005 21:48 (twenty years ago)

RONAN YOU LIVE IN SEATTLE OMG!!!! WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME, YOU CRUEL BITCH! :'( :'(

― donut gon' nut (donut), Saturday, 27 August 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

biz, did you use to DJ at Groovetech.com per chance?

― donut gon' nut (donut), Saturday, 27 August 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

yes, i did fo about a year

― biz, Saturday, 27 August 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

so i listened to fabric 13 last night and can say i love this mx. Most mixes are great. The first 2, in paricular are fantastic but the mix into Easy Lee an into Run Into Flowers are both pretty bad. a couple vibe killers thrown in even though the tempo's were matched. Gonna listen to Immer now to dissect the mixes.

― biz, Saturday, 27 August 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

Hmmm... wading through a few live sets (Nathan Fake, MFA) & such I gotta say I'm still not entirely convinced by this lot.

I much, much prefer (and like!) the more structured stuff 'Dinamo' 'Outhouse' etc to the foggy, gauzy, nu-trancey overload of a lot of the material. It's all very pleasant certainly but wow is it sugary. It feels a little regressive.

That said I dtill have James Holden & others to check out. I may well change my mind.

― fandango (fandango), Friday, 30 September 2005 10:06 (twenty years ago)

Listening to a Holden set now... Okay, this I do like so far!

I didn't realise he owned this label actually.

― fandango (fandango), Friday, 30 September 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)

i'm having a hard time getting any of their records in the shop - anyone have any ideas on where i can get them? forced exposure seems to be out of them all the time. same with circus company!

― heywood jablomi (heywood), Friday, 30 September 2005 23:03 (twenty years ago)

"I much, much prefer (and like!) the more structured stuff 'Dinamo' 'Outhouse' etc to the foggy, gauzy, nu-trancey overload of a lot of the material. It's all very pleasant certainly but wow is it sugary. It feels a little regressive.

That said I dtill have James Holden & others to check out. I may well change my mind. "

I think James Holden's recent stuff is really the core of the label and its future. The three key tracks for me would be his remixes of Nathan Fake, Andre Kraml and System 7 respectively (also Booka Shade's "Mandarine Girl" is probably the best fake Border Community track).

That's not to say there isn't some other awesome stuff not in this vein - e.g. both Petter's "Altogether" and the MFA remix of Dextro's "Do You Need Help" have this awesome brittle urgency matched with atmospheric eeriness that I love. But Holden's work from "A Break In The Clouds" onwards is what I think really defines the label and marks it out as something distinct and exciting.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 1 October 2005 03:08 (twenty years ago)

The MFA played a 'live' lap-top set at the "Border Community meets BPitch Control" night a fortnight ago in Berlin which Omar + I went to. They were so damn good I missed most of James Holden's set in the other room (which wasn't the intention). They have a wonderful feel for rhythm and space, an infectious energy and sparkle which makes me suspect, of all the Border Community artists they could be commercially massive (if that counts for anything). Nathan Fake was pogoing at the front, it was a great night out.

― stevo (stevo), Saturday, 1 October 2005 05:28 (twenty years ago)

That Holden and Thompson track you were looking for is brilliant Stevo. Sadly it's sold out on Juno and stuff but I guess I'll find it eventually!

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 1 October 2005 08:03 (twenty years ago)

"Nothing" or "Come To Me"?

― Siegbran (eofor), Saturday, 1 October 2005 08:17 (twenty years ago)

"Come to Me (Last Version)" the spaced-out version with the heavily fxed vocals and MBV influence. I had something close to an epiphany when Tiefschwarz played it in Paradiso.

― stevo (stevo), Saturday, 1 October 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

has anyone noticed how much james holden and robag wruhme share in common? every time i hear wruhme's triola mix out, the epic-ness of it always makes me think it's holden, til i look at the label and slap myself in the head. likewise, i heard a holden remix of ______ (memory refresher please) the other day and i was sure it was wruhme. they really have a rather uncanny overlap, given how otherwise distinct their productions are from each other.

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Saturday, 1 October 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

"rinse time" really does sound like acen goes house. unsurprisingly this is a direction i would like to see everyone go in , always.

― strng hlkngtn: what does it mean? (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 1 October 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

Ali Douglas - one half of The MFA - is evidently an old hardcore fan + metalhead. See:

http://www.progressive-sounds.com/artists/The-MFA/The-MFA-interview-1-2004.asp

"The first album I ever bought was The Prodigy Experience. I am definitely influenced by that early 90s rave and hardcore scene. I still like The Prodigy, Daft Punk and all sorts of drum n bass"

http://www.thescene.com.au/hype/2004_1_19_22.html

"I started out liking Jungle/DNB, I used to go the original Metalheadz nights at the old Blue Note to see Peshay, Goldie etc - and still do now to listen to Hype, Andy C etc."

― stevo (stevo), Sunday, 2 October 2005 07:09 (twenty years ago)

The Holden remix of Andre Kraml practically lifts the Wignhomy drum style wholesale.

Anyone got the Holden set live@sonar from this year? It starts off a bit poorly mixing wise and tunewise but it's brilliant by the end, too many tracks I need to ID in it though.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 2 October 2005 12:11 (twenty years ago)

There's something really great about the fact that Holden can be accused of stealing from the Wighnomy Bros when you consider that he's still considered by most people to be making prog house. I've recently been wondering if germanic post-electrohouse is the secret "great unifier" that Reynolds wanted "Doom's Night" to be several years back. Only it's a unification-in-diversiity: all the big DJs now sound similar, but in the sense of being similarly non-samey.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 2 October 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

I wouldn't call it an accusation maybe!

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 2 October 2005 13:28 (twenty years ago)

I like the latest Holden, but I saw him playing two years ago and he was definetly progressive. Not progressive house, but sort of, erm, progressive-IDM ???

― nocure, Sunday, 2 October 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

"I wouldn't call it an accusation maybe!"

Yeah I didn't think you were being negative.

"I like the latest Holden, but I saw him playing two years ago and he was definetly progressive. Not progressive house, but sort of, erm, progressive-IDM ???"

I think he still is progressive - he's changed over the last two years and so has progressive - although we should acknowledge that compared to Border Community, Sander Kleinenberg and James Zabiela (the other erm standardbearers for the weirdification of prog) aren't particularly inspiring.

My point was more that the same record can now variously be classed as house, techno, electro, prog.... and yet with tracks like Holden's it's not a case of records being a greyscale krusty imitation gruel hodgepodge of the various micro-genres, but rather being so odd and intriguing that they can (and do) fall into several stylistic corners.

Alex Smoke is another producer which prog tries to claim as its own...

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 2 October 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

has anyone heard the nathan fake album yet? i see he descibes it in DJ magazine as 'rocktronica' :-/

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:07 (twenty years ago)

the nathan fake album is ok but not that great. a remix album of it would probably be superb.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 22 December 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Does it have Dinamo on it? Have to confess I'm not bowled right over by stuff like "The Sky Is Pink" either...

― Merry Christmas (fandango), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:16 (twenty years ago)

it DOESN'T have 'dinamo' on it! or 'coheed'. (not that i've heard the original 'coheed' ever.)

'the sky is pink' is probably one of the best things on the album, and i always think i'd much rather be listening to the james holden rmx instead.

it's all a bit too (sub-)boards of canada-ey for my liking, and too little of the dancefloor action.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:19 (twenty years ago)

Alex, the original "Coheed" is similar to the Mayer mix but with weedier minimal beats and without those awesome searing electro riffs. The Mayer mix basically renders it redundant, though in isolation it's a great track.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)

i was all about this shit for a minute but now i dunno.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

it DOESN'T have 'dinamo' on it!

Pheeeew, that's a relief.

I dunno, I'm hoping for some tech-MBV stuff like his live performances which are spellbounding (with that little stutterbox of his.)

Anyway, at this point I'm more interested in a Border Community label compilation than a single artist album.

― Omar (Omar), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

Omar do you like the Eulberg mix of "Dinamo"? I adore it while I'm ambivalent about the original i think.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

'Dinamo' was probably record of the year for me, I love it beyond all reason, but nothing else Nathan Fake does seems to grab me that much. From his website I got the impression of him as dude who loves Manitoba and Four Tet and that (which I also like, but), I see Dinamo as a bit of a fluke sound-wise, is this right?

― baby i'm waiting (cis), Thursday, 22 December 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

i think Outhouse is still my favourite thing by him but nothing else he's done sounds remotely like it! i did also enjoy his live show though.

Omar OTM re: label comp.

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 22 December 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

Omar do you like the Eulberg mix of "Dinamo"?

Yes Tim, I think it's better than the original, which for some reason I never could really get into. But yeah 'Outhouse' also is my favourite.

― Omar (Omar), Thursday, 22 December 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

Alex, the original "Coheed" is similar to the Mayer mix but with weedier minimal beats and without those awesome searing electro riffs.

exactly as i would have guessed :(

nathan fake originals (like cis, i make an exception for 'dinamo' though i think i love the eulberg mix more) sound, in comparison to these remixes, kind of cheap. they remind me of that spectacularly mediocre m83 band who not coincidentally are also vastly improved when remixed.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 22 December 2005 17:06 (twenty years ago)

I haven't heard the Eulberg remix! (not that I am hinting anything, Lex, you know my gmail. ;) )

― baby i'm waiting (cis), Thursday, 22 December 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

i haven't heard it either!

― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 22 December 2005 23:54 (twenty years ago)

i've been utterly lousy at keeping up for the past few months.

― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 22 December 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

It's a bit like Eulberg's remixes of "Isst" and "Cosmic Sandwich" in that it sounds like a fairly faithful "Eulberg"-ized version of the original for the first half, and then goes entirely off the rails. Eulberg and Mayer were good choices for that Nathan Fake remix 12 because both of them have this great knack for preserving exactly what it was that one liked about the original track while adding something which is immediately and unmistakably them and takes everything to a new level.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 23 December 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

http://www.bordercommunity.com/sleeves/jesperminjon1.jpg http://www.bordercommunity.com/sleeves/jesperminjon2.jpg

http://www.bordercommunity.com/gallery.htm

― Yawn (Wintermute), Friday, 23 December 2005 00:34 (twenty years ago)

cis have you heard eulberg's remix of dj hell's 'follow you'? even better. i would gmail but i have no means of putting it on a computer!

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 23 December 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

New Holden Mix "At The Controls" coming out on Resist in March. The press release is here.

Tracklisting:

CD1
Apparat - Wooden
Plastikman - Cor Ten
Massive Attack Vs Mad Professor - Trinity Dub (Three)
Kate Wax - Angel Blues
Death In Vegas - Anita Berber
Petter - Some Polyphony
Vox Sola - Metro Pop
Issikadis - Hotter Now (Stripped Down Mix)
Holden - Lump
Midimillz - Trace Function
Harmonia - Watussi
Holden - 10101
Skugge & Stavostrand - Medean
Nathan Fake - Charlie's House (Apparat Mix)
Lucky Pierre - Angels On Your Body
Christ - Perlandine Friday
Fennesz - Rivers Of Sand

CD2
meta.83 - Opening Titles
Paul Kalkbrenner - Gebrunn Gerbrunn
Motiivi:Tuntematon - 1939
Malcolm Middleton - Solemn Thirsty
Aphex Twin - Xtal
Milky Globe Vs Holden - Sun Spots
Kalabrese - Aufm Klo
Lazy Fat People - Big City
Water Lily - Lottotron Reboot
Trans Am - Cold War (War Is Stupid Mix)
Slag Boom Van Loon - Poppy Seed (Boards Of Canada Reprise)
Egoexpress - Live At Sirius Prime
Black Strobe - Nazi Trance Fuck Off! (Holden Mix)
Plastikman - Cor Ten
AFX - Every Day

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 17:01 (twenty years ago)

that mix is pretty awesome apart from the voice all over my copy telling me it is a promo :(

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 17:06 (twenty years ago)

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