Rolling Metal Thread 2010

I want to see Sleep because I foolishly skipped seeing them back when I last had the chance. They came through town with Hawkwind on the Holy Mountain tour and I snobbed them off because I thought they were exactly as Phil describes them.

Over time, I have developed an appreciation for them, particularly Volume One and the Asbestos Death stuff. I agree that Holy Mountain and Dopesmoker/Jerusalem are over-rated albums. But that doesn't mean they're worthless.

And anyway, I'm curious to see how they sound with Jason from Neurosis on drums. Al claims that Jason can play things that Sleep wrote, that Chris was never able execute. Sounds like sour grapes, but there's no doubt that Jason is a total pro.

And in Portland, the show is Sleep/Scott Kelly/YOB. So everyone here will get there money's worth in the first 40 minutes ;)

Hey, I greatly prefer High on Fire to Sleep as well.

― A. Begrand, Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:12 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I do too. You may be able to turn unperson on Sleep, he used to hate the Melvins too.

"I do not understand this nostalgia for mediocre juvenilia. "

And as for that statement, I don't think you can be a heavy metal journalist and not understand nostalgia for mediocre juvenilia ;)

Al claims that Jason can play things that Sleep wrote, that Chris was never able execute.

Don't buy this for a second.

just subscribed to Decibel too \(^o^)/

Haven't previewed the Yakuza yet, but I might buy it unheard. A lot of the more interesting releases have passed through the mastering knobs of my friend Collin's Boiler Room Mastering, including Nachtmystium (he texted earlier this year - "Dude, it's industrial!"), Yakuza, Twilight (supergroup of members of Nacht, Isis, Minsk, Leviathan, etc., not the movie soundtrack), upcoming Zoroaster album, etc. Keep an eye out for The Swan King later in the year. I think they're in the studio with Sanford Parker now.

That new Zoroaster album is a lot better than I was expecting.

I'm curious to know if Unperson's sniffiness about drug albums extends to, say, Satan albums or albums about, just, y'know, rocking or albums about supernatural shit. I mean forget Sabbath and Slayer for starters. Does he extend the same lack of courtesy to, say, Dopethrone by Electric Wizard? Sweetleaf by Sabbath...

I saw Sleep back in the day and saw them play the fans ATP the other year. I can't remember them first time round but they were astounding in Minehead. Some of my learned colleagues were in tears at how good it was. I just didn't buy the T-shirt because it was covered in massive pot leaves.

And the new Yakuza is a massive disappointment.

Yeah, the new Zoroaster is really good - especially compared with the lameness of their last one.

Re drug songs, "Sweet Leaf" is the worst song on any of the first six Black Sabbath albums, and it's not just because of the lyrics; it's because the riff is static and up-and-down like a pile-driver, totally lacking the groove their best stuff has. I "extend the same lack of courtesy" to Dopethrone because it's not as good as Come My Fanatics.... Why my "sniffiness" would logically extend to songs about Satan or anything else, I'm not quite sure. "I smoke pot - impressed?" is a particular kind of dumb, and has been at the root of a fucking ton of really, really bad music. I don't care how much pot you smoke offstage (or how much of any other drug you choose to ingest); I just don't wanna hear about it.

wait a minute - "sweet leaf" is lacking in groove?!

I just involuntarily started nodding my head just thinking about that riff!

I mean, different strokes for different folks, but I disagree 100%

I got a lot of respect for unperson but the idea that the sweet leaf riff is anything less than A+ riff would bang head again is completely insane & almost everyone who likes metal is in the pro-sweet leaf camp iirc

It's a great riff; I'm talking about the relative groove and (to use an even better word) swing in the rhythm section (Butler/Ward) vs. other Sabbath songs ("Lord Of This World," "Children Of The Grave," etc.).

personal least fave from the first six:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCCbbwFc1kE

I don't want to live in a world where people prefer that to "sweet leaf"

I'll concede that you may have been exaggerating for maximum challopsing ;-)

And the new Yakuza is a massive disappointment.

Gah.

"Sweet Leaf" is the worst song on any of the first six Black Sabbath albums

GAH.

But I will agree that Sabbath was indeed at its best when Ward and Geezer had that swing going, no question.

I have a lot of respect for Unperson as well which is why I'm disappointed to be getting a 'grow up' vibe off him. Seriously, if you're going to diss metal because of a perceived lack of sophistication then you're on thin ice as any kind of self-professed metal fan.

I mean, I know I'm talking to a fan of 'Orgasmatron' for starters right?

And nice way to duck the question... do you think 'Dopethrone' is A) childish and unsophisticated or B) a motherfucking kick ass album.

(I know which way your commissioning editor at WIRE would vote on this by the way, as he introduced me to it.)

Apply this rule to the max and you're probably left with Opeth and Dillinger Escape Plan... which, while they're both great bands, doesn't sound like much fun to me.

I'm being slightly more confrontational than I intended here actually. I mean, as much as I believe everything I've said, there are worse things than not liking Sleep I guess, it's just I personally find the new age posturing of Om much more childish.

dopethrone is little bit of both A and B, really.

I am not "diss(ing) metal because of a perceived lack of sophistication." I am saying "songs about smoking pot are dumb. Hour-long songs about smoking pot are really dumb." Can you honestly not perceive any difference between the two?

I'm dropping out of this thread with bong in hand and getting some actual work done

yeah unperson I would argue strongly that you cannot reasonably make a blanket statement that resembles "songs about _______ are dumb." and moreover that unlikely subjects for songs is a big part of metal's appeal.

But songs about smoking pot are hardly "unlikely." They're horrifyingly common. And with that, I too will retire from the field, because this is a huge blind spot of mine, to the point that no argument, however meritorious, will get anything out of me but "shut it, hippie," but it's a blind spot that I recognize and keep out of my formal criticism.

Who Are You or Am I Going Insane are probably my least favorite from the first six Sabbath. I think Ozzy was the sole writer of both, so there you go. To have Sweet Leaf in the mix is a total shame, that is just one of the most fucking heavy riffs of all time.

What about songs about other drugs? Do you like Snowblind? you can't dislike that song

I've never smoked dope in my life but man i love Dopesmoker (smithy & I shall agree to disagree over Jerusalem & Dopesmoker)

I have a tape somewhere with an interview with sleep on some cable radio show that you could get via cable radio via blueyonder way back in the late 90s. You only got it for a few years but i found a couple of terrific radio stations, one was Solar FM which had a fantastic funk show on a friday night and there was a metal station. It was Matt Pike & Al I think discussing the album being made,Signing & being dropped by London records . all of this while they played the entire album in the background. I wish I could find that tape.
That's how I discovered Sleep.

I'm one of those dummies who didn't know about Sleep until that gargantuan "Dragonaut" riff played in Gummo.

Hour-long songs about smoking pot are really dumb.

See, this is one of those statements that I would have totally been on board with about seven years ago. Even now, on paper, that makes tons of sense. But when it comes to Sleep, I just can't agree at all.

Hour long songs about smoking pot are fantastic when you are smoking pot during that hour.

But I don't want to pile on unperson just yet, I'm going to wait until the new Ozzy that I bought because of him fails to live up to my expectations (they are pretty low though). Actually between my work discount and a gift card I had, it only ended up costing me two bucks so I think that it should live up to the cost.

Funny thing is, I don't smoke pot but I listen to a lot of music that might indicate otherwise.

me too

it's just wacky to me that this of all threads is where i have to be like who really gives a fuck abt lyrical content

But I don't want to pile on unperson just yet, I'm going to wait until the new Ozzy that I bought because of him fails to live up to my expectations (they are pretty low though). Actually between my work discount and a gift card I had, it only ended up costing me two bucks so I think that it should live up to the cost.

Yeah, that's about right.

how is it possible that the rolling metal thread is the place where multiple dudes are like "i don't smoke weed at all ever," I have woke up in bizarro land

some of you guys haven't really ever actually heard cathedral, lemme just tell you that ok

"i don't smoke weed at all ever,"

lol didn't say this exactly, just not my thing really

not really mine much either, once you're grown you're either full time functional stoner or only once in a blue moon in my experience, but I dunno this is a whole separate topic but given the prevalence of weed in both the making & the hearing of metal, its reach throughout the whole spectrum, I dunno like I can't imagine if I hadn't listened to metal high not wondering "what does it sound like to, y'know, so many of the people who're into it?"

I personally resent the suggestion that I cant appreciate a bands music if i haven't taken illegal drugs.

I don't think thats what aerosmith is really saying there though.

Oh really? You sure about that?

some of you guys haven't really ever actually heard cathedral, lemme just tell you that ok

What else do you think he is saying?

1st time I saw High on Fire Matt Pike's first words to the audience: "Hi, we're High on Fire, we're from Oakland. Y'all high or drunk or stoned or...something? Ok, good."

You can enjoy it plenty, but I mean a lot of doom is made by stoned people for stoned people. That doesn't mean you're "not allowed" or whatever think you're prepared to accuse me of but whether you're able to hear it the way its creators did, if you have zero familiarity at all with that mindset? I would say no, you kind of can't conceive of how it sounded to the people who wrote it, and that doesn't really seem to me a particularly wild thing to say -- seems kind of obvious.

Nevermind pfunk, apparently I was wrong. Guess its time to go trash all my Steely Dan records since I can't possibly conceive of their true intentions, having never snorted coke.

I think aerosmith's making a lot of sense here tbh

in other news, if you listen to music in Spanish but you don't speak any Spanish, you are getting something very different out of it than people who speak Spanish are

xpost

that being said, I'm about to find out what its like to listen to Yakuza while eating crackers with jelly, will report back if I feel like my eating was integral to the experience

"Hour long songs about smoking pot are fantastic when you are smoking pot during that hour."

Dopesmoker is my least favorite Sleep record, but I agree with the above statement 100%.

Also, I will once again say that ALL music is stoner rock. I don't think there's a record that doesn't sound better when you're high.

And btw, I'm in the "grown up/functional" category that J0hn referred to. Doesn't keep me from working on this shit 70+ hours/week.

Nah I was being facetious with my Steely Dan comment, I see what he's getting at.