A Paler Shade of White---Sasha Frere-Jones Podcast and New Yorker article Criticizing Indie Rock for Failing to Incorporate African-American Influences

one more thing:

I I remember the prominent general music critic Henry Pleasants made this very complaint about "loss of black influences" when he first heard the Velvet Underground. What a surprise that bands that follow in their footsteps should not break away from the trend!

― Cunga, Tuesday, October 16, 2007 5:20 PM (10 months ago) Bookmark Permalink

AAAAAAAAAARGH! Does anyone else here listen to White Light/White Heat and not hear a great dub record?

(of course, it's totally possible I might not be sure what dub is...)

Man, would I be like really out of line and gauche to ask SFJ to offer up some thoughts on what prompted his own band's pretty tepid and bloodless (but not altogether uninteresting) music? I mean this could be really helpful in terms of moving towards an answer to his own initial question. I mean, SFJ was there.
-- Mr. Diamond (diamond), Sunday, April 20, 2003

More importantly, Indie music is not void of African influences. It in fact takes the roots of the african sound, and cuts out the middle man. You could say it has no African American influences, but once again Rock and Roll was formed upon African America music.

All "rock" music is more or less influenced by black music, but you could say that indie has some white influences too while the white influence on contemporary R&B is very close to zero.

http://static.taume.com/image/justins-timberlake-futuresex-lovesounds.jpg

now stfu

worldofjustin.com

is this your site big hoos?

in any event someone plz photoshop a picture of geir's head onto that disco ball

aw that ain't nice

So in exactly which way has Justin Timberlake influenced current R&B. It seems more to me like it's the other way round.

Black influence in music can be waaay overrated. Plus, nobody is forced to use anything or to acknowledge any cultural factors that don't mean anything to them. Actually, if anything some kinds of black music should be denounced rather than used, but to each his own.

lol

Vison: Don't forget that ALL pop music is influenced by black music in some form or another. It surely belongs there in the mix. Actually to such an extent that all "rock" related music is "black" in a way. Which makes it meaningless to ask for blackness. I mean, as for the indie bands that are being accused of not being "black" enough: They do have a rhythm section. That in itself is a very obvious "black" element.

Geirbot.jpg

And to take the bait: since when were rhythym sections a designator of race?

I just used the "Suggest Ban" button.

that mr. diamond post is great

whoops! in regards to my wl/wh dub post, 'not hear'='hear'

Hi Geir, the influence does exist, but we don't have to buy it wholesale, it happened as a complex process, and it does not imply any obligations or debts. The way some people put it, it sounds as if black musicians are supposed to get 40 acres and a mule as reparation, and that of course puts the whole debate under a politicized, bitter perspective.

I dislike these "Elvis simply took black rhythms and styles blah blah blah" faulty generalizations. That's oversimplifying a complex and politically charged equation. I'm also puzzled that black influence is often equated simply with "rhythm", i.e, with some tribal pusating undercurrent to make people shake, rattle and roll. When Johnny Marr does that counterpoint thing in "This Charming Man", for instance, that's an african influence as well to a certain extent, but again, it's complex, because there's also a strong european contrapuntal tradition and so on.

Plus, I encourage people to express their dislikes a little more openly, and this is a subterranean discomfort that must be let out in the open: many people who like stuff like train,Garth Brooks or martial industrial bands loathe black music of any kind, particularly contemporary styles. So let's not rush anyone into being force-fed anything and respect all kinds of perceptions and worldviews.

BTW, I use black because 1)"african-american" it's a PC cop out which I reject and 2) to include other important traditions such as african-brazilian, afrocuban etc. So, 'till things are brighter, I'm the man uses the word "black".

lol

I didn't miss this place.

The way some people put it, it sounds as if black musicians are supposed to get 40 acres and a mule as reparation, and that of course puts the whole debate under a politicized, bitter perspective.

Dude...

Hi Geir, the influence does exist, but we don't have to buy it wholesale

I would say about 50 per cent of each. The Beatles got the mix between "black" and "white" elements just about right from around 1965 onwards.

(Otherwise, I'd much rather give them 40 acres and a mule - imperialism is a factor that shouldn't be ignored. But in music it may)

...

jesus

http://www.allglittergraphics.com/miss_you/glitter_graphics/miss_you_graphics_12.gif

This time I hit "Confirm".

hahaha

oh hey, ilm is back

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j244/egyptianlover661/itunes5.jpg

http://img11.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/3/f/c/3/5/3fc353a0c2df7974bf61aeaa7a124670_full.jpg

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/rupert_christiansen/blog/2009/02/24/has_rock_music_got_a_cultural_diversity_problem

Nice comment from Jimmy Tarbuck there.

I think that's Peter Sissons

Oh hold on, he was at school with Jimmy Tarbuck too!

It may well be failed London Mayoral candidate Steven Norris.

most black music concerts almost always have a much larger spectrum of people from diff races than any rock show ive been to, even ones where the bands have black/non white members (bloc party, tvotr, cornershop etc etc).

from http://www.thedaily.com/about

For six years, Sasha Frere-Jones has been a staff writer and pop-music critic for The New Yorker, where he continues to write. He is expanding his 2007 essay "A Paler Shade of White" into a book for Farrar, Straus & Giroux. [...]

this is the first time i've heard that news

god i forgot about this clusterfuck

Ha, this is the thread where Geir told me to shut the fuck up!

Oh brilliance.

Really, one of my proudest ILM moments.

were u talking greasy about genesis?

Iirc, Ethan had been quoting things from a white supremacist message board and then Geir posted something that looked like a quote from a white supremacist message board and then I asked Geir if it was a quote from a white supremacist message board and then he told me to shut the fuck up.

Iirc, Ethan had been quoting things from a white supremacist message board

haha aw man...the good ol' daze :)

you keep up with ethan? i hope that dude is good, miss him on the board still

Not really, he occasionally pops up on fb, but that's it. Seems like he's doing alright tho.

I am totally psyched for this to be a book, honestly no way it can disappoint

lol good attitude