Ladies and gentlemen....the 1990s ILX SINGLES POLL RESULTS

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and 10% should be 2%

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Limiting the number of noms for any one artist is something to consider for future polls.

-- MindInRewind (brune...), November 11th, 2004 1:43 PM. (later)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

who says we accept that?????

Well yeah I didn't mean it is "accepted" but its hardly surprising or shocking, its is expected.

― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:45 (twenty-one years ago)

But no less worthing of revulsion.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Worthing? WTF? Hahaha.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

"...10% of a poll going to two bands (and as I said before ANY two bands, although yes obv I would be less irritated if I love the bands in question) is fucking stupid."

Would you say it is stupid if you truly believed those ten songs are among the best 100 songs of the '90s?

― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

No, then I would say the person who thinks that is stupid.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

29 - 48 are going to be live Pearl Jam albums.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

So to believe, in any circumstance, that 5 of the best songs of a decade were made by the same artist, no matter who that artist is, is stupid?

― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

There is no decade or EVEN year where two artists/bands/whatever released 10% of the best 100 songs released during that time period. Given the massive amount of music released EACH week for basically the past 50+ years, I think it requires an almost willful desire to limit one's taste/listening habits to believe otherwise.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Being eclectic is a virtue to be prized above all other concerns.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd prefer to say diversity is a virtue to be prized above all other concerns, but yeah actually I do think that's basically a true statement, Dan.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

That said I only voted for rave and hip hop tracks in my top 30 haha so I am also a total hypocrite.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

ALEX IN SF'S BALLOT:

MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 2"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 3"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 4"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 5"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 6"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 7"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 8"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 9"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 10"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 11"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 12"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 13"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 14"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 15"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 16"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 17"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 18"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 19"
MOBB DEEP - "Shook Ones Pt 20"
OMNI TRIO - "Renegade Snares"

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

...diversity is a virtue to be prized above all other concerns..."

I agree with this, but if you were to make a list of your favourite songs, scrificing your own taste for the sake of diversity is a huge dishonest mistake.

― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha wait "Verbal Intercourse" doesn't sound EXACTLY like "Shook Ones"!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

You agree with this and yet somehow you think that a list with 10 songs by two acts fairly represents that?!?!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Also Gear! you forgot:

Omni Trio "Renegade Snares (Foul Play Remix)"

and

Omni Trio "Renegade Snares (Foul Play VIP Remix)"

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex, aren't you just complaining about what people like? If someone likes those songs in the proportion discussed, why shouldn't they vote for them? Or do you doubt such people exist?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

1) No.

2) It results in lame stilted lists (like this one for example.)

3) Obviously these people exist (see list.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

So people shouldn't vote for what they like but vote for what would make a good poll instead?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:23 (twenty-one years ago)

YES EXACTLY

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:23 (twenty-one years ago)

(You have to remember that Alex is a dirty dirty Commie.)

(ps plz Alex don't hurt me)

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan, don't make me go Stalin on you!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

But yeah obv I think that should be a consideration (not the only one obv.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

The list fairly represents peoples tastes, I think that should be pretty evident. Like you, I think a more diverse outcome would look better. But I don't think that the fact that this was not the case, makes the outcome less fair.

― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Where did I say the result was unfair? I said it ridiculous and stupid, but yeah democracy spoke and people's tastes suck.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I also think it's odd to say that one persons ballot is somehow 'less correct' than anothers.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Interesting that ppl are so eager to dismiss race although i think cinniblount made a mistake arguing that people are racist for liking Pulp or St. Etienne which is obviously not fair. Some people who voted for those bands also voted for many many black artists. But. The fact that the consensus hits on some VERY similar touchstones suggests that there is something to be said for what people WILL and WON'T engage with, or even more importantly, what they HAVE and HAVEN'T been exposed to.

Think about the fact that there were people here who had never heard "Mind Playing Tricks" - I wouldn't say it is RACISM that they didn't pick that song/ know that song. But they are a product of a society that does not wholly embrace black music, that black music has had to push its way into our consciousness OR we have to seek it out.

I don't blame individuals for not being aware of music that they did not grow up with but surely there is some blame for a society that reinforces a certain musical perspective.

Imagine a parallel ILM wherein the people discussing it were predominantly black and from the black community of New Orleans. Assuming they had the same interest in exploring a diverse range of music as everyone here, do you think that the list would be very similar to this one?

I'm not sure I'm being clear here, but can someone help flesh out my idea here? heh. Or disprove it, whatever I'm open to that too.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"I also think it's odd to say that one persons ballot is somehow 'less correct' than anothers."

Yeah, you're right. Criticism is mean. We should all stop.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

You agree with this and yet somehow you think that a list with 10 songs by two acts fairly represents that?!?!

― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think the fact that The Geto Boys weren't as big in the UK as they were in the US (especially given their relationship to mainstreram music) is a comment on race as much as it is a comment on what form "violence" was allowed to take in popular music.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree, but when it comes down to the sociological level of racism, trying to explain why some people heard things others didn't, not only do things become incredibly complicated and murky, but a ballot of mostly black artists is as much a product of a racist society as that choosing 'whiter than white' indie.

(x-post to djdee)

We're not mean. Just you. Poopyhead.

(x-post to alex)

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:35 (twenty-one years ago)

FAIRLY = ACCURATELY in that case, ya dork.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:35 (twenty-one years ago)

OK all I'm trying to say is, diversity in poll results look nicer, but the lack of it does not necessarily make them ridiculus and stupid. And don't say you didn't say that!

― daavid (daavid), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Kevin I'm not saying we should have an all-black list either! Just saying that race IS obviously an issue (among other social issues) in how a poll like this turns out. Consensus does not identify individual issues of race but it does show a group trend with regards to how race is treated and which kinds of music will be accepted and which wont, and what black music (mostly) white people are aware of and which they arent - an issue of exposure which is also in many ways an issue of the ways our societies fail when it comes to racial issues! Were was "Come on (Ride the train)" and "Da Dip" and assorted other musical moments?

To dan: can you expound on that? I'm not quite sure what you'd mean, i'd be interested to know why some black american music is accepted in the UK and some isn't ("accepted" = "popular")

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Basically I'm attacking the reaction that people are having because race was brought up, just because race wasn't a decisive factor on one level doesn't mean that it didn't have an affect at all!!!

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I said that. And I think 10% taken up by two bands makes it automatically pretty ridiculous and stupid.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes. My point wasn't about an all black or all white list, (I wasn't claiming 'reverse racism' or anything) just that if we put aside ideas of intentional racism, then all lists of all types are equally products of a racist society because the people making them are. It's an obvious point, sorry. Race certainly isn't irellevant in music, but in this poll, without any evidence someone is actively racist it's a silly thing to bring up.
(x-post)

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

crybaby ;o)

x-post dammit

― Porkpie (porkpie), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm surprised some people haven't taken their ball from ILX and gone home.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I know it's a lame thing to say, but for fuck's sake, stop taking it so seriously, it's only music for crying out loud

― Porkpie (porkpie), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I think some of them have - it's been kind of quiet recently.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

It's definitely a more respectable way of responding to the discovery that people don't share your sense of "rules".

― miccio (miccio), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I still disagree. You're being dogmatic. Criticize St. Etienne or Pulp or whatever, not the fact that they took 10% of the poll!

― daavid (daavid), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I meant 'categoric'. Sorry, English isn't my first language

― daavid (daavid), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"It's definitely a more respectable way of responding to the discovery that people don't share your sense of "rules"."

Somehow I don't see myself taking advice on respectability from Anthony Miccio anytime soon.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Kevin - I think its perfectly fine to complain about the fact that so many Brits haven't heard a lot of great American (black) music do to societal issues (both race-related and not)! (and had the brits NOT been the ones to have 2 artists representing 10% of the list, I think they could claim the reverse).

My point is that it may be obvious "we are all a product of society, what we're exposed to, and how we learn to engage with 'other' music" but I think its OK to complain about that fact when it is confirmed by a list like this!

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"I still disagree. You're being dogmatic. Criticize St. Etienne or Pulp or whatever, not the fact that they took 10% of the poll!"

I'm baffled why I should do that. I don't care about Pulp or St Etienne except that they tolk 10% of the poll.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 12 November 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

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