Killing Joke - Classic Or Dud, Search And Destroy

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"We can honour the fire without pretending like it's hotter than it actually is."

Editor place acronym for LAUGHING OUT LOUD here.

Paula G., Friday, 10 January 2003 15:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

In the many moons since this initial debate, Dr.C has long since gone on to distinguish himself as a man of knowledge and taste, thus his lack of appreciation for Killing Joke is hereby overlooked, and all hexes, curses, fatwas and prices on his head have been lifted.

Paula G., meanwhile, has done nothing of the sort, and continues to spout whistle-headed nonsense (not least accusing the Joke of being Goths), so PISS OFF!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

they are techno-goths, as all agree

mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/jaz/jaz35.jpg

Uncle Jaz (vassifer), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

Thanks Alex - is it safe for me to leave the house now? The REAL Dr. C will now appear at future FAPS, instead of that drunken imposter I've been sending in my place.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

I have come here just to post something because I feel a compulsion to post on the Iggy vs. the Corrs thread and I know that I mustn't

ooooooh stop me

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 11 January 2003 04:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like "Stay One Jump Ahead". Bassline is FUNKEE!

donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 11 January 2003 06:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

Seriously, I do like the song. I don't know why.

donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 11 January 2003 06:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's probably the best song on the album (really not saying much), but the "extended mix" (featuring a "rap") was enough to make me question the real merit of continuing on with life.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 11 January 2003 07:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

Alex - your last post was for me the most hilarious conclusion to this monster thread. Much appreciated.

paulc, Monday, 13 January 2003 21:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

No charge.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 January 2003 21:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

You know, after all of this, would it be foolish to admit that I for one am actually not very familar with Killing Joke? Is this what they call dishonoring the fire? Or am I simply ignorant of the fire?n

I just got Psychopharmacology though, Alex. I love it.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 13 January 2003 22:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

Glad you like Firewater, who -- I feel -- are criminally underheralded (they shit from a great, splattery height on other NYC bands like The Walkmen and the like).

Killing Joke wise, I'm not going to get all winded about it. Seek out the first album......

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc300/c309/c309332s0t8.jpg

....and if that doesn't grab ya, don't bother pursuing it further.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 January 2003 22:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

If Stay One Jump Ahead Had Been done by another band I'd probably like it.

If I'd only heard the version _without_ he rap I'd probably have liked it.

I've heard the rap. Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

And what Alex said about the first album, even though I prefer the second one myself.

mei (mei), Monday, 13 January 2003 22:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Breakin' News, of sorts:

KILLING JOKE ACTUALLY MENTIONED IN THE N.M.E!!!!!

http://www.nme.com/news/103951.htm

Whoohoo!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 January 2003 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

Neat how that article made no mention of the previous strife between them; had that already been long put behind them or something? (You would think that there would be more bad blood, esp. considering that picture upthread of Jaz stomping on Nirvana paraphernalia. His smug look in that pic, by the way, is enough to make me want to slug him.)

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 16 January 2003 19:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

Grohl is purportedly playing on the forthcoming Killing Joke album. Grohl was also -- it should be rememberd -- the sixth or seventh drummer Nirvana had.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 January 2003 21:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

one month passes...
Closer to classic than to dud. The 1st 3 records (s/t, What's This For...?, and Revelations) rate classic or damn close. The rest rate decent-to-good, with Fire Dances being my favorite from the post-Revelations Joke. The early stuff was heavy on the tribal/edgy/noisy approach, with later release tending a bit more toward dancey & notably less ferocious. IMHO as always........

John Bullabaugh, Saturday, 8 March 2003 16:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

OMG OMG first-ever Alex in NYC post!

Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 8 March 2003 16:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Re-submitted for your disapproval:

Tom chirped: "And is it just me or are they not anywhere near as heavy-sounding as they're made out to be." I dare say that without
Killing Joke, most of your precious "heavy sounding" bands wouldn't even exist. Killing Joke have indulged in a myriad of different
musical styles and sounds well beyond the monochromatic "heavy," yet when they choose to go that route, there is no one mightier.
To judge Killing Joke by one or two tracks is an excercise in blind-sighted stupidity. Do your homework before submitting an
opinion! Moreover, if you're put off by the conceptual/lyrical content of Killing Joke, why not toddle home and slap on a Pixies or
Cheap Trick album and celebrate the meaningless and banal. At least Killing Joke have something to say. You may not like it, agree
with it...or even understand it....but at least there something of substance there. Killing Joke credit their audience with higher
standards and a modicum of intelligence. Try getting that from Korn.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 8 March 2003 22:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's a bit sweeping in its hyperbole, but I still stand by most of it -- although taking swats at the otherwise completely respectable Cheap Trick (to say nothing of the Pixies) was admittedly way offsides. I was talking more about lyrical content, but it just came out a bit misinformed and blowhardy. Ah well....I was younger and angrier then.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 8 March 2003 22:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like them, but to consider them as a source point for hardcore music today is fairly rediculous.

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 18:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

No it isn't (says Bryan doing his best John Cleese impression). Killing Joke is very inspirational to me. The guitar part from "Frenzy" is one of the best ever to practice to.

Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 14 March 2003 19:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

I mean they had lots of predecessors, what about PIL, Gang Of Four, Cabaret Voltair, Joy Division and even New Order.
i find it extremly hard to beleave that Jaz Dosen't even Like New Order, what about their synth rock/pop tracks? they weren't the first.

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

shur they were inspirational! but i don't see them as the most inspirational Post Punk band.

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

There were lots of Post punk bands that were far more inspirational for the "heavy sound" today than KJ, doesn't anyone see that?

note: i agree that Big Black owe A LOT to KJ.

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

I didn't think I was trolling...

Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 14 March 2003 19:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

trolling? sorry, having hard time understanding your post. explain.

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

what does "trolling" mean?

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Baiting you (I think). I think KJ's roll as an influence on "heaviness" is maybe more an attitude thing, though Paul Ferguson was the mightiest drummer out of any of the bands you mention.

Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 14 March 2003 19:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

I mean they had lots of predecessors, what about PIL, Gang Of Four, Cabaret Voltair, Joy Division and even New Order.

These bands weren't predecessors of Killing Joke, they were peers.

i find it extremly hard to beleave that Jaz Dosen't even Like New Order, what about their synth rock/pop tracks? they weren't the first.

Whoever said the Joke don't like New Order? Jaz has gone on record a few times saying Joy Division were one of the few of their fellow bands he actually liked and respected. Moreover, Peter Hook actually filled in on bass detail for Killing Joke for a very brief spell.


shur they were inspirational!

Awfully big of you.

... but i don't see them as the most inspirational Post Punk band.

Who said they were? My point, however, is that they don't get the recognition they rightfully deserve.

There were lots of Post punk bands that were far more inspirational for the "heavy sound" today than KJ, doesn't anyone see that?

Post-Punk in itself wasn't exactly a wellspring of 'heavy,' though. The Joke paired the fresher, spartan approach of what was turning into "post-punk" and paired it with a heavier sound that owed more to the more conventional Punk Rock and Metal before it. I defy you to name a post-punk band who were heavier than Killing Joke. Gang of Four? No. Joy Division? Not quite. Public Image Ltd.? No.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

The closest approximation to Killing Joke in heaviness at the time, I'd wager, would be the Birthday Party, and even they didn't exude as weighty a sound.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Awfully big of you."
are you patronising me or something?

"I defy you to name a post-punk band who were heavier than Killing Joke"
i woun't argue with you on who's heavier, but just trieng to slagg of someone with a different opinion then you is revoulting.

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 20:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

and yeah, i think Birthday Party Are heavier, so what?

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 20:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Whoa there! Somebody needs to switch to the decaf PCP!

Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 14 March 2003 20:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

"but just trieng to slagg of someone with a different opinion then you is revoulting" i ment "becouse of a different opinion".

hahaha yeah, sorry for getting carried away there.

webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 21:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

Keep your pants on, man. I'm just so used to people needlessly spouting misinformed crap about Killing Joke that I tend to take a rather feral stance on the matter. Apologies if I came across as (more of) a bastard (than intended).

And I'd still disagree with you about the Birthday Party being "heavier" (which is in absolutely no way to disparage the Birthday Party). I'm merely speaking of these two bands' respective sounds. The Birthday Party's rather brooding demeanor may rival Killing Joke's, but their literal sonic output doesn't match the sheer weight and brute force of the Joke's.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 14 March 2003 22:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Phwoar! 200 posts!

http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/geordie/geordie16.JPG

Geordie K. Walker (vassifer), Friday, 14 March 2003 22:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

They're still rubbish.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Saturday, 15 March 2003 10:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

And you're still wrong.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 15 March 2003 10:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hi again alex, i'v found it strange too but i read here that he did say he likes JD but doesn't like NO.

webb, Saturday, 15 March 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Maybe he resents the rather less weighty lyrical direction they took off in following Ian's demise?

In any event, here's a shot of Jaz with the Foo Fighters onstage recently in Auckland. HE LIVES!

http://www.foofighters.com/blackbox/pictures/2003_01_16_auckland/images/FF_2003_AUCKLAND_GALATOS0066.jpg

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 15 March 2003 22:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

Grohl is purportedly playing on the forthcoming Killing Joke album.

Ah, yes, Dave "Put Me In Your Band Please!!!" Grohl. What the hell? Does he go thru cash MC Hammer-style or something?

Ally (mlescaut), Saturday, 15 March 2003 22:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Cool link, Webb, thanks for that. I can understand where Jaz might not think New Order were that great....especially considering their origins as Joy Division. Bernard Sumner's lyrics aren't exactly as thought-provoking as Curtis', nor does New Order's music exude the atmosphere of distinctive otherness that Joy Division's did.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 16 March 2003 00:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

yeah, thats "Requiem" they're doing. i can see him not liking the lightness of NO but the origins of the pop/rock guitar sound with the disco beats that appears on songs like "Night Time","Love Like Blood" are largly New Orders rather then Joy Divisions. but KJ tracks are heavier. thats why i mentioned it.

webb, Sunday, 16 March 2003 10:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm with Jaz (Julian, hah!) on the Joy Division/New Order thing.

What is there to like about New Order? Apart from their name, obviously.

mei (mei), Sunday, 16 March 2003 11:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jaz is actually Jeremy, not Julian.

Personally, I fuckin' love New Order, but y'know....whatever.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 16 March 2003 21:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

Even "World In Motion"???

Ally (mlescaut), Sunday, 16 March 2003 21:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Even "World In Motion"???

The wife's favorite song of theirs, actually.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ok, that can't possibly be true. That's dedication.

Ally (mlescaut), Sunday, 16 March 2003 23:12 (twenty-one years ago) link


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