Prince..... the exact point where it all started to go horribly wrong.

I'd never noticed how feh the lyrics of "Positivity" were until this thread because the music doesn't allow the emotional text to be interpreted that easily. It's too weird a song, and the interplay of the voices, some of whom might not even be Prince, smolder and sigh too much. There's nothing banal about what he surrounds the lyrics with, just as with "Sigh o the Times"

I think one reason Lovesexy is so much a part of this thread is that it was followed (officially at any rate) by Batman and Graffitti Bridge, records on which Prince starts straightening the kink from his funk, a kink that had been noticeable since 1999. I see these records as looking for another niche, because he sensed that hip hoppers could take that particular type of kink further than he could (and they might even use his kink to do so, although it is interesting how little Prince was sampled). This could explain the antipathy towards rap on the Black Album. I think by The Gold Experience, or perhaps even "Gett Off" and "Jughead" he may have made his peace there.

The 90s weren't just when Prince started making uneven records on a regular basis (and how!); he'd turned away from something he was moving toward on Lovesexy.

I will say, Lovesexy threw me, and I climbed back on board via black radio in Minneapolis, which was far more likely to play his early '90s stuff than replay his '80s hits. "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" probably got more play on KMOJ in the past decade than "Little Red Corvette." Then again, Prince also gives money (on the DL) to KMOJ. Whether Prince gets much play now, I don't know, 'cause KMOJ got its management taken over and has been sucking in various ways since December.

"He was precocious and brilliant, but lacked focus in his apprehension of new influences," Hahn says, relating the onset of Prince's creative wane, which the author pegs as beginning with 1987's heavily bootlegged Black Album. "After Prince decided to stop learning, the lack of continued stimulus, coupled with the absence of strong personalities like Wendy and Lisa from his band, quickly became apparent in his work." Possessed pinpoints other factors in describing the freefall of Prince's reputation and creativity: an inability to expose himself to new ways of seeing the world, an obsession with owning his master recordings (contrary to record industry practice), and the pursuit of his original black audience through the ill-fitting incorporation of wack rappers like Tony M. into his post-Revolution band, the New Power Generation. "We were his first black band, and our thing was to help him get his black audience back, because he had lost that," admits ex-N.P.G. singer Rosie Gaines.

I'm almost tempted to revise my Batman suggestion to agree with this as Black ALbum never did all that much for me, but Lovesexy's strengths argue that it has to be later point. I'm still thinking about why a lot of 90s Prince leaves me underwhelmed and what it is I like/love about certain songs. I'll postmore when I've figgered tat out.

oh, link to article http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0331/lewis.php(which also reviews Greg Tate's new book on Hendrix)

Very great. I should listen to it again, been a while.

If we look at our Prince history, we note that in 1988, Prince was to release "The Black Album," a funky follow-up to "Sign O' The Times." Then, he ended up doing Ecstasy with Ingrid Chavez, freaked out, saw God, and decided that the album was the wrong move. Check Per Nelson's excellent "Dance Music Sex Romance" for more information.

Then he puts out "Lovesexy." It's a brilliant record, and if you buy the CD you get the entire album as one track. You have to take the album as a whole. It works brilliantly for those who listen... it's the last great Prince album.

For a guy who always looks forward, his next move is perplexing. He decided to do a Purple Rain sequel. Most of the songs on the soundtrack are OLD SONGS re-recorded ("Can't Stop This Feeling I Got" and "We Can Funk" were originally recorded with the Revolution, and "Tick Tick Bang" dates from the 1999-era). Since the album features too many guests (Tevin Campbell, The Time, among others), the record doesn't work on it's own. It's too bad, because the movie SUCKS. Unlike "Parade," which is my favorite Prince album of all time (at least it is this month), you can't ignore the film and listen to a kick-ass album.

At this point, Prince begins to try way too hard to be both on the charts and somewhat relevant. "Diamonds and Pearls" may have sported some great songs, but listening to tracks like "Jughead" 10 years later, you realize that he was competing with MC Hammer. The O)+> album again features some great songs, but there's just too much bad rap and it's a bad "concept album."

From here on out, there are moments of brilliance. I buy every Prince album for those moments, but he's consistantly failed me with each release. His recent experiments with "jazz" (actually lightweight instrumental jams) are promising. It shows that he's more interested in music than sales or hits. But it's all pretty boring.

Looking back, the Revolution (or more specifically, Wendy and Lisa) had a huge influence on him. After they left, he continued to produce some brilliant music, but quickly ran out of ideas or went for the cheap hit. I just want him to release some Revolution tracks from the Vault, without modern overdubs. Then i'll be happy.

As for the acoustic disc, Truth, it just seems sorta gimmicky to me. Like he just wanted to prove that he *could* do this jazzy folk thing if he wanted to (he's always been up front with his infatuation with Joni Mitchell). And the aforementioned trebliness of the mix also doesn't sit well in my ears - it sounds too clear and crystalline, doesn't have any warmth really. I could be wrong, I haven't listened to it in years and really only heard it a few times, but it really didn't appeal to me.

My moment of when Prince lost (even if made good stuff afterwards - Gold Experience) was with Diamond and Pearls when he deliberately wrecked his songs to make them more commercial. Also he stopped having extended singles/bsides which really need to be rereleased (but will never happen) as it is now forgotten history.

-- Naive Teen Idol"

I did forget Batman. I can defend Batman. It's simply a soundtrack, an interesting side project almost. There are some great songs on there ("Vicki Waiting," "Electric Chair," "The Future," etc) and some clunkers ("Batdance," "Trust"). Still, it's not really a Prince album, don't you think? It's simply a soundtrack... the fact that he put so much thought into it shouldn't matter. He did a good job identifying with Bruce Wayne's character, not to mention the Joker. It's a no-brainer... he's always had the duality thing going, being a Gemini. God/Sex, Camille/Spooky Electric, Male/Female, Black Album/Lovesexy, etc.

But my overall point, that he blew it with Grafitti Bridge, still remains. ;)

I've retroactively decided he blew it with 'The Most Beautiful Girl' because a. he initially managed to obscure how horribly irritating it actually was with a good chorus b. I was 12 in '94 and didn't know no better and c. it's dated like a carton of milk released in the same week.

My main problem is the dated production on Batman, it's by far the most trend sounding production which actually might be considered the turning point as he wasn't ignoring trends. Also he left off lots of good songs of Batman (the bsides Sex, 200 Balloons, and Feel U Up as well as outtakes Dance With The Devil, & Rave Un 2 The Joy Fantastic).

Personally, I think the love symbol album was the beginning of the end. Despite a few good tracks, it just doesn't hold up like his earlier material does. And after that the downhill turn was even steeper.