"Down In The Tube Station At Midnight" by The Jam - What Does It Mean?

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mr. willet, what if the line is parsed thusly?

" Smiling, beguiling
I put in the money and pull out a plum"....

it is actually the curry afficionado himself who is doing both the smiling and the beguiling.
in fact, if "plum" does indeed refer to testicles, it's a fairly heavy-handed attempt at beguiling.
read this way, perhaps the attackers are simply local rent boys who rise to the bait, request confirmation of sufficent funds beforehand, and are then driven to violence by his meandering, overly detailed answer, as postulated by yourself in your post of 3rd September, 2004.

m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 21:21 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, I was wondering about this angle myself. Is he plying for some trade before he gets home to his wife. Maybe there's some coded use of the word 'plum' there. I don't know, maybe some rhyming slang: eg, Tom's thumb - plum....?

the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 21:32 (twenty years ago) link

Who plies a thumb?

Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 22:36 (twenty years ago) link

OK, so the "queen" which he "pulls out" is in fact his repressed gay self, ordinarily subsumed by the simulacrum of hetero domesticity which he describes in such pathetic detail (a cry for help, surely).

In which case - is the rapidly cooling "take-away curry" literally a "take-away curry", or code, palare, for some special sexual feature or predilection, recognised only by a select few?

And if so, how much would it have cost in 1978?

Neil Willett (Neil Willett), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 05:38 (twenty years ago) link

Maybe "take-away curry" was a reference to a male homosexual prostitute of either Chinese / Indian extraction; who was unable to offer premises for the purpose of sexual activities; in the wannabe-Cockney parlance of the Surrey suburbs in 1978?

This would make perfect sense because, of course, anyone who made a habit of wandering about down in a tube station at midnight accompanied by an asian rent boy; and with one of his bollocks hanging out of his trousers; back in the unenlightened days of 1978; was bound to get his head kicked in before too long.

Does anyone happen to know whether £4.50 might have been the going rate for asian rent boys in the Woking area in 1978?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 09:22 (twenty years ago) link

it is actually the curry afficionado himself who is doing both the smiling and the beguiling.
in fact, if "plum" does indeed refer to testicles, it's a fairly heavy-handed attempt at beguiling.
read this way, perhaps the attackers are simply local rent boys who rise to the bait, request confirmation of sufficent funds beforehand, and are then driven to violence by his meandering, overly detailed answer

i think finally we have an exegesis that addresses the true complexities of the song. we understand more deeply weller's rendering of those insomnia prone, feverish late 70s days, when as morley put it "we were all pale hysterical ghosts of who we are now"; that bygone era swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, where ignorant armies clash(ed) by night.

dave amos, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 09:26 (twenty years ago) link

Maybe "take-away curry" was a reference to a male homosexual prostitute of either Chinese / Indian extraction; who was unable to offer premises for the purpose of sexual activities; in the wannabe-Cockney parlance of the Surrey suburbs in 1978?

Not a strange thought. But Weller referring to this person as a 'Curry' is clearly racist - then why berate his attackers for smelling of 'right-wing meetings'?
Unless he only called his rent-boy a 'curry' to their faces, to come over as "one of them" (hoping to avoid the kicking).

It does have quite some implications.
When the thugs shout "Hey boy", they may well have been addressing the prostitute, and not the narrator. If he hadn't opened his big mouth, they might have completely left him alone - it's the prostitute's money they were after.
Of course, it also means the song gets a lot darker, as "the curry's gone cold" probably means they killed his companion.

Vasquesz, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 09:36 (twenty years ago) link

"But Weller referring to this person as a 'Curry' is clearly racist - then why berate his attackers for smelling of 'right-wing meetings'?"

As has already been observed, he actually commented that they had attended too many right wing meetings - the implication clearly being that attendance at such meetings (like the using the occasional racist slur) was OK as far as Mr. Weller was concerned, provided that it was in moderation.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 09:43 (twenty years ago) link

The smell of brown leather
It blended in with the weather
It filled my eyes, ears, nose and mouth
It blocked all my senses
Couldn't see, hear, speak any longer
And I'm down in the tube station at midnight

"Paul Weller - My Rimming Shame"

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 09:46 (twenty years ago) link

this post has made me respect weller a whole lot more.

splooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 09:49 (twenty years ago) link

Hmmmm.

Does anyone actually know what the "D" and the "C" in "D.C. Lee" stand for?

It couldn't possibly be "David" and "Christopher" or "Derek" and "Colin", could it?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 09:53 (twenty years ago) link

this post has made me respect weller a whole lot more.

Really? Running around with male prostitutes at all hours, while his wife is, as we now know, not just "lining up the cutlery", but making their supper as well [he isn't bringing any].

A new question: do you think that 'the deed' had already been done at the time of the attack? "I've a 'little' money" he says, so he has probably already paid up.

Vasquesz, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:01 (twenty years ago) link

"Really? Running around with male prostitutes at all hours, while his wife is, as we now know, not just "lining up the cutlery", but making their supper as well [he isn't bringing any]."

what a great lyric.

splooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:04 (twenty years ago) link

It doesn't rhyme - he said anachronistically

Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:06 (twenty years ago) link

that is a bit of a problem.

splooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:07 (twenty years ago) link

but he had to sacrifice something to get all this - "Running around with male prostitutes at all hours, while his wife is, as we now know, not just "lining up the cutlery", but making their supper as well [he isn't bringing any]" - into the song.

splooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:08 (twenty years ago) link

The chorus still works if you sing it quite fast 'though:

"Down a back alley with an asian rent boy at midnight
Whoa Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh"

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:11 (twenty years ago) link

And then the "Whoa Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh" becomes orgasmic in a gruff Weller-like manner - the actual moment of climax captured in the echoed "Oi!" just before the last verse.

Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:14 (twenty years ago) link

Unless of course it's not an "Oi!" so much as an "Oy!" and the protagonist of the song is actually Jewish - possibly a Rabbi, hence his shame at midnight trysts with Asian rent boys

Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:16 (twenty years ago) link

In view of these other revelations, I'm now wondering whether it's possible that we've all misheard the line ".... and pull out the Queen" and that this should actually be ".... and pull off a queen"?

It would certainly explain why the queen in question was "smiling, beguiling".

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:17 (twenty years ago) link

Oh, I thought we agreed that the change he fumbles for is a change within himself, and that the queen is one of his personalities.

Vasquesz, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:20 (twenty years ago) link

'the smell of brown leather' could also refer to an old fashioned medicine ball or football of some sort. 'it filled my eyes, ears, nose and mouth' - has he accidently taken a goal kick full in the face? Is this all a subterranean kickabout gone horribly wrong?

dave amos, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:23 (twenty years ago) link

I am at a loss as to why this thread got slagged off on Popbitch yesterday...

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:26 (twenty years ago) link

a stinging blow to the face by an old leather football in addition to having his plums trapped in a chocolate vending machine? a night of disaster for weller, but there are few of us who haven't faced such agonies on london transport after a few beers and a fumble with a rent boy.

dave amos, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:28 (twenty years ago) link

Oh, and I've also found a possible reason why a newspaper would print a story of someone being run over.
Here. Look at the year this story first surfaced.

It'd be just the thing one of these tabloids might print, unaware that it's an urban legend.
It also explains why Weller has to take the tube in the first place: he wasn't able to complete his driving test.

Vasquesz, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:30 (twenty years ago) link

"Oh, I thought we agreed that the change he fumbles for is a change within himself, and that the queen is one of his personalities."

I'm staring to move towards the belief that when "he fumbles for change" (within himself) he's actually wrestling with his own conscience because he knows that he shouldn't be lurking about in subterranean passageways, seeking out opportunities to provide hand-relief to passing homosexuals, when his wife is at home "polishing the glasses and pulling out the cork" and generally fulfilling her role as a dutiful wife, in blissful ignorance of his sordid hidden activites and proclivities.

However he ultimately loses this battle and gives in to his baser instincts.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:32 (twenty years ago) link

...and him being a Rabbi adds to his sense of shame

Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:36 (twenty years ago) link

the thing about his wife "polishing the glasses and pulling out the cork" could mean shes a pre-op transexual.

splooge (thesplooge), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:37 (twenty years ago) link

too many right wing meetings

too many right wing meetings ?

An 'acceptable' number being one. Where you go 'fuck that bollox' and never go again.

(fwiw, I have not.)

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:40 (twenty years ago) link

But that would mean you'd start smelling of them from the second one onwards!

Vasquesz, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:45 (twenty years ago) link

Fascism stinks

Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 10:47 (twenty years ago) link

This is set in 1978 remember: "right-wing meetings" could easily have been at Sham 69 gigs, Specials gigs, Madness gigs, or even to some extent Jam gigs....

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 11:11 (twenty years ago) link

Or Jimmy Tarbuck gigs, Cilla Black gigs, Ken Dodd gigs

Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 11:12 (twenty years ago) link

Or Bernard Manning gigs, Jim Davidson gigs....

No, wait, sorry, those weren't right wing meetings, they were right wing rallies.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 11:19 (twenty years ago) link

Meanwhile, of course, Skrewdriver were still just another very ordinary, very average, little punk band, with no particular known political affiliations or other special identifying features of any sort.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 11:24 (twenty years ago) link

.. with Mark Radcliffe as their drummer, fakt fanz

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 11:37 (twenty years ago) link

So in other words "no special identifying features of any sort", like I said.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 12:13 (twenty years ago) link

Funny how Strange Fruit have never got round to re-issuing that Skrewdriver John Peel session from Summer 1977, innit? (I taped it. It was dire.)

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 12:37 (twenty years ago) link

Presumably that's for the same reasons that Roger Armstrong has always refused to either re-release or license any of the pre-nazi material that they recorded for Chiswick - they may not have been a nazi band when the material was recorded, but the current hateful incarnation of Skrewdriver could only benefit from anything that might help to raise the band's profile.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 13:10 (twenty years ago) link

'fumbling for change' = tube nutter

dave q, Wednesday, 8 September 2004 13:47 (twenty years ago) link

But that would be "mumbling incoherently and haranguing innocent passers-by for change", surely?

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 13:50 (twenty years ago) link

'fumbling for change' = tube nutter

Exactly.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 13:53 (twenty years ago) link

The phrase "partially naked" warrants a closer examination. For who in their right minds would describe a set of steps as "partially naked"?

(Unless they were of the same prim Victorian mindset that resulted in piano legs being covered up with little velvet curtains, that is. "My God... those steps... they're practically NUDE.")

I put it to you that what Weller actually wrote was:

"I'm partially naked, except for toffee wrappers and this morning's papers. etc."

This fits the "tube nutter" theory admirably. Drunk, shirtless, covered in litter, one bollock hanging out of his trousers, rent boy on his arm, rambling on about his transexual "wife"... well, you can see why he might have attracted some unwelcome attention.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 14:16 (twenty years ago) link

Wait a second - it isn't Mr Jones that's partially naked?

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 14:18 (twenty years ago) link

"Partially naked/Except for toffee wrapers and this morning's paper/Mr. Jones got run down"

NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 14:19 (twenty years ago) link

Lyrical analysis at long last has reached an appropriate level, one that doesn't make me think of Fricke and Hilburn. To all, salut.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 14:25 (twenty years ago) link

I was actually thinking something all similar lines myself. After all, does he not say that "the glazed, dirty steps.... reflect my thoughts:...."?

So he's at very least imagining what it would be like to wander 'round the cities subterranean transport system "partially naked, except for toffee wrapers and this morning's paper....".

In reality 'though I don't think he's prepared to risk the shame and public humiliation attendant on his actually being caught wandering 'round the tube station completely starkers, and is forced to settle for surreptitiously pulling out one "plum", attempting to disguise the action of so doing by pretending to be getting his money out of his posket and purchasing either a ticket or a bar of chocolate from a vending machine (it is unclear which).

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 14:26 (twenty years ago) link

And another thing: how on earth do these newspaper headlines contrive to "tell of tomorrow"? After all, it's not "Mr. Jones will be run down", is it?

These are strangely prescient newspapers. My money's on The Fortean Times.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 14:33 (twenty years ago) link

Or maybe he is Mr. Jones, and the strangely prescient newspapers are actually predicting his own demise?

(For just after he loses consciousness, his attackers push his body over the platform edge, where he remains until savagely mowed down by the first train of the morning.)

I can't believe it has taken so long to deduce this simple, yet crucial, fact.

mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 14:38 (twenty years ago) link

It's obviously a song about queer bashing. Plum is short for 'plum duff' which is Cockney rhyming slang for puff.

He's obviously tried it on with some guy, but it's a setup and his mates are going to beat the shit out of him. In a panic he makes some story up about having a wife, who's getting ready for the curry, but being in a panic the story is confused and illogical and doesn't save him from the inevitable beating.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 8 September 2004 14:41 (twenty years ago) link


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