The Best 50 Powerpop Albums according to RYM

Yeah, see, stuff like Jellyfish and Crowded House is where I start not hearing at all what's so powerpop about it. Seems to me more like....art-pop. Or soft rock. Or indie rock. Or something.

it's called crap

Well, it's at least called adult contemporary (or adult alternative?), maybe. And I say that as somebody who has come to not-hate "Don't Dream It's Over" over the years, btw. But if that counts as powerpop, then why not, I dunno, Heart's or Chicago's or Air Supply's or Phil Collins's '80s ballad hits? (So yeah, I deifnitely need to hear some power in there, somewhere.)

"Orgasm Addict" is just punk to me; it doesn't fit in with my conception of power-pop at all. Ditto "Smells Like Teen Spirit," even though I realize it borrows its key chord progression from "More Than a Feeling," which definitely is power-pop at the edge of...I don't know, something--it's power-pop, but it's more high-tech than most of my favourites. (It's a great song, I'm not taking anything away from it.) I've coined a different word for "Smells Like Teen Spirit": I call it "grunge." Rick Springfield's stuff I don't know at all, but I will say that "Jessie's Girl" in Boogie Nights might be the most self-reflexively great use of a pop song in any film ever.

Crowded House--ugh.

Well, what makes "Orgasm Addict" (or at least, say, "What Do I Get?" or "Why Can't I Touch It?" or "Homicide" by 999 or the first Generation X album or whatever) not just punk and "Teen Spirit" (or Local H's "Bound To The Floor," or maybe Stone Temple Pilots' "Big Bang Baby") not just grunge is how sweet and bouncy their melodies are. I mean, I'd say early Green Day were just as much powerpop as punk, too. And even though I mostly hate it, emo probably has a lot of powerpop in it, too. Songs are allowed to be in two genres at one time.

I'd say lots of teen-pop (by Avril or whoever) overlaps with powerpop by now, too. And even some Tom Petty/Bryan Adams/Springfield-influenced Nashville country (from Brad Paisley, Jack Ingram, Keith Urban, etc.)

Actually, Skye Sweetnam's debut LP from a couple years ago was totally a powerpop album, as much as Exploding Hearts' (which I also like a lot) was. (So's some hair metal: early Poison, for instance.)

Green Day is powerpop to the bone

I love Crowded House but it doesn't belong in this category.

Most of that punk and grunge stuff, I just don't hear it as power-pop. (I guess I could stretch my definition to possibly include something like "Walking Contradiction.") It's more of an intuitive feeling with me, which admittedly does not provide for a very cogent definition. (It's like that old I-know-pornography-when-I-see-it evasion.) But to start admitting anything and everything just by virtue of it having guitars and a melody--and I'll agree that most everything you mention is melodic--widens the net way too much. Recent teen-pop and '80s hair-metal, maybe...somewhat. Most of what I know, I just think it's kind of generic. Country I draw a blank.

I remember talking about this on another thread years ago. The chord progressions in "More Than a Feeling" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" are actually different. The Boston one is all diatonic chords, but the Nirvana one has a bIII and a bVI. The bIII in particular is more of a blues chord.

So, it brings up the whole issue of the extent to which "power pop" is associated with diatonicism to the exclusion, really, of pentatonicism.

xp But you're not saying "generic" precludes it being "powerpop," are you? (I don't see how most teen-pop or most hair-metal {or most skinny-tie 1979 new wave, as you suggested upthread} are more generic than "most" of any other genre -- things are by definition generic to their own genre, after all, some some of every genre is generic -- but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there.) Anyway, there's lots of generic powerpop that I have no use for, sure. But that doesn't mean it's not still powerpop. (Uh, maybe I missed your point. And I'm also hardly saying everything with guitars and a melody is powerpop, either. Depends on the melody. And the guitars! And probably other stuff.)

I know for a fact that the Rubinoos were dangerously preoccupied with that very issue.

The chord progressions in "More Than a Feeling" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" are actually different. T

yeah was gonna bring this up but so tired of pointing this out

You're right, Xhuxk, to be generic by definition locates you within that genre. (Duh.) I guess I meant that I focus on what I love when trying to define a genre, and that personally I don't pay much mind to what I don't.

And I say that as somebody who has come to not-hate "Don't Dream It's Over" over the years, btw. But if that counts as powerpop, then why not, I dunno, Heart's or Chicago's or Air Supply's or Phil Collins's '80s ballad hits?

Because Crowded House - like Paul McCartney before them - made highly sophisticated quality pop. Neil Finn usually uses more different chords in one song than David Foster has done in his entire career.

And it's not about anything having guitars and a melody. The melody has to be McCartneyesque, it has to have more than just the standard MOR corporate pop song.

xp For instance, the Allman Brothers and Led Zeppelin and Yes and U2 and Radiohead and Counting Crows and Alice In Chains and R.E.M. definitely had guitars and melodies; few would argue otherwise. And I'd never claim they were remotely powerpop, I don't think. (Since they didn't have -- what? Guitars and melodies that seem to be in the tradition of Badfinger and the Raspberries and Rubinoos and Knack and Pezband and Blue Ash and "Substitute"? Yeah, something like that.)

is John Waite powerpop? I'd say so.

X-Post: I would say in the tradition of Beatles, Beach Boys and Byrds. Those three are the essence of all things powerpop.

And I know some people like Marshall Crenshaw have been very fixated on Everly Brothers and Buddy Holly too, but I would say that is a sidetrack. Sort of the influences of powerpop's influences.

the Beach Boys don't have anything to do with power pop really (they never had any power lol)

why do you have to ruin every thread

Power doesn't have anything to do with power pop.

I'm sure this won't go over well, but, for me, John and George's best '65/'66 songs are much closer to my ideal of power-pop than Paul's.

Which is why I dislike the term. It should have been called Beatly-pop or something. "Powerpop" was just something Pete Townshend came up with to describe The Who. It fitted The Who, but never fitted what was to be named powerpop.

Alfred, I mentioned the Babys (who were definitely a powerpop band) upthread. I'd say Waite's solo career is more a mixed bag ("Missing You" maybe, "Change" definitely.) Bad English? Probably not. (Though not, uh, because they didn't make "highly sophisticated quality pop." Pretty sure they didn't, though.)

Oh, and poprock is actually a much better term. Except it isn't really rock either.

"Beatly-pop": let's all take a blood oath to never utter that word again.

Alfred, I mentioned the Babys (who were definitely a powerpop band) upthread. I'd say Waite's solo career is more a mixed bag ("Missing You" maybe, "Change" definitely.) Bad English? Probably not. (Though not, uh, because they didn't make "highly sophisticated quality pop." Pretty sure they didn't, though.)

What you are talking about is AOR. Which is an entirely different genre (more corporate, and also more rock oriented)

yes tell us all how corporations sound

Corporate=music that is constructed for the hitlists rather than coming from the heart of the songwriter. Usually written by professional songwriters and performed by acts unable to compose their own songs.

I'm guessing any one of us could dismantle that, but let's step aside and make way for Xhuxk!

that was not a serious request btw

xp

Oh for god's sake. Who cares?

Well, first of all, it's pointless discussing powerpop without making a distinction between powerpop and AOR. Because it may sound the same for people who are not into either. But it's two mutually exlusive genres containing absolutely none of the same acts (except for Cheap Trick who started out as powerpop and later became AOR)

how many times can I sb you

let's find out!

Uh, he didn't even answer the question. (And I'm into both.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWfYLrN5a08

A quick list of some of my favorite power-pop songs, as I understand the term--where I'm coming from, as Stevie Wonder might say:

1. "Girlwish," Fudge (1991)
2. "Not Me," Shoes (1977)
3. "Another Girl, Another Planet," Only Ones (1978)
4. "Mannequin," Wire (1978)
5. "Any Other Way," Posies (1990)
6. "Consider Me Gone," Jellystone Park (1991)
7. "Big Blue Bus," Stupid Cupids (1987)
8. "I'll Be There," Windbreakers (1985)
9. "Shake Some Action," Flamin' Groovies (1976)
10. "Southern Girls," Cheap Trick (1977)
11. "Oh, Grateful," James Dean Driving Experience (1987)
12. "Completely," Seaside (1991)

I've bypassed the '60s, because there's too much thinking involved if I don't.

Btw, realize I'm trying to reason with an nitwit (and in the words of one of these guys, the point is probably moot), but John Waite, Rick Springfield, Bryan Adams, and 38 Special did all regularly compose their own songs.

And--even though there's probably a touch too much (very fine) soloing--a big Spinal Tap shout-out to the most perversely unlikely great power-pop song I know: Wishbone Ash's "Blowin' Free" from '72.

5. "Any Other Way," Posies (1990)

this may be my 5th favorite song period

It's an amazing song. 1990 is the one year out of the last 40 I didn't pay much attention to music--I was at teacher's college--but if I had been, and if I'd somehow stumbled over it (unlikely--didn't catch up to it till five or so years ago), it would have topped my list for the year easy.

This a singles genre...but that said, aside from the Big Star albums, which are kind of in a universe by themselves, the best start-to-finish classic power pop album I can think of is Rockpile's Seconds of Pleasure. Phil Seymour's self-titled would be it were it not for the last two tracks. The '90s and '00s are another can of worms.

The whole premise of a really specific '60s foundation for power pop doesn't settle well with me. I was just looking at the Wikipedia article on power pop. Interestingly, there is no mention of the Byrds whatsoever. I kind of get the idea of forming a genre around Monkees/Beau Brummels/Knickerbockers/Easybeats/Outsiders. I'm just not sure 1) how relatively powerful these bands were, and 2) how relevant this lineage is to the development of power pop in the '70s. It's like these bands are being identified specifically because they were maybe somewhat innocuous and that's seen as a general power pop trait.

The thing is, the Raspberries were a powerful band. I think the term "power pop" is meaningful and see the Raspberries as a bigger genre archetype than Badfinger.

Do some people actually care about the Outsiders, uh, outside of "Time Won't Let Me"? I had no idea. Just finally got rid of the LP with that song on it a few days ago, becuase the rest seemed completely, well, generic -- some okay covers, some forgettable originals, nothing else that much ever grabbed me at all. (Just checked Whitburn; surprised to learn they actually had four Top 40 singles, all in 1966.)

I can definitely see the Monkees as frequently proto-powerpop, though, now that you've mentioned them. (And "Friday On My Mind," too.)

Beau Brummels ("Don't Talk to Strangers" and "When It Comes to Your Love") and the Monkees ("A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You," "Take a Giant Step," and at least a couple others) fit into my definition, for sure. My head's starting to spin...with Beau Brummels we're at the intersection of power-pop and jangly, early psychedelia. "Jangle-pop" might in fact be a better description of at least half of what I listed above, except jangle-pop also leads you to a lot of mopey Smiths-like British stuff I don't care for. (I burned and filed an Outsiders singles compilation recently; outside of "Time Won't Let Me," nothing caught my ear at all.)

I think there's something extra-musical involved in the definition of power pop. Ironic distance? Low self-esteem? There's a beautiful loser aspect to it. Great power pop albums wind up in the cutout bin, where they develop cult reputations. That's why people are on the fence about Cheap Trick, John Waite, 38 Special, etc. Power pop wants to sound like it should have been a hit. Once it actually becomes a hit, it's something else. (Exceptions abound, of course -- "Go All the Way" etc.)

I'd never thought of that before...excellent. Maybe that help explains, in part, my attachment to the Shoes; they were a case study in shoulda-been, with lots of sad, lingering evidence in Goodwill dollar-bins everywhere. (I mean, not that much evidence--no one bought their albums!)