The Best 50 Powerpop Albums according to RYM

Yep - the 1st 3 Cheap Tricks, the Flamin Groovies Sire Recs releases, 20/20... I cry ballot box stuffing! LOL

Hell, really, they should've included Rick Springfield and 38 Special and Bryan Adams and Babys albums. (But it's not surprising they didn't.)

Agree about Rick Springfield, but not Bryan Adams. He is mainstream heartland rock, not powerpop.

Btw. Rick Springfield is defined as powerpop at RYM: http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/rick_springfield

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ok i just don't even understand what's going on hear wrt poll results

and i really really like Copper Blue

I think Rick Springfield may have left out the power.

hear here

xp Nope. For one thing, from the wimpy looks of that list, they were mostly trying to avoid powerpop with much power in it. Only bands up there that I'd say come closer than Springfield to, say, powerchorded Who-style hard rock would be Cheap Trick, the Groovies (though maybe not that album) and possibly Badfinger. (And his music has actually maybe even gained power as he's gotten older; witness his '00s albums, which have been discussed quite a bit on the Rolling Hard Rock threads.)

"They" meaning Rate Your Music raters, I guess; the list wasn't compiled by a committee, obviously.

Powerpop rarely contains power chords. Power chords = rock whereas powerpop is first and foremost a pop genre. The three big influences on the powerpop genre were Beatles, Beach Boys and Byrds, none of which "rocked" particularly much.

So, well, another genre who should have had another name, as the "power" is just as misleading as the "progressive" in "progressive rock".

I've got to basically agree with this, that "powerpop" is a misnomer. I don't see the Beach Boys as much of an influence, but the Beatles and Byrds are the beginning, definitely--and, to a certain extent, Buddy Holly and the Everlys. It's more of a feeling...which is hard to describe; it's kind of a shimmery, gossamer thing.

I've always heard the Who's "Substitute" as Ground Zero, but then my definition of the genre was shaped by bands that were being called powerpop in 1979 -- the Knack, the Records, Bram Tchaikovsky, the Pop, the Beat, Nick Lowe, 20/20, etc. And of course, like any genre, there's no right answer, and we've discussed the question many times before:

Powerpop: what is it, c or d, etc.

Bands in the "powerpop" chapter of the 1980 new wave guide I just bought for http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=46289 off a seemingly homeless guy set up on the sidewalk of St Marks

And as I probably say on those threads, I'll never understand how, say, Big Star (much less Jellyfish, ick) count but the Raspberries and Sweet and Bay City Rollers don't. Guess it depends when you learned the word.

Not to mention early Tom Petty, Dwight Twilley, all sorts of other folks. (Maybe the Cars, though I can see how they might be too techno.)

Can someone detail the differences between Pop and Powerpop and Rock please.

"Subsitute" makes for a perfect ground zero; I think it appeared at more or less the same time as the Beatles' "Eight Days a Week" (or "I Need You") and the Byrds' "She Don't Care About Time." Personally, I consider Big Star overrated, but when they got it right--"September Gurls," "The India Song," "Thirteen"--they were pretty awesome. I count the Sweet's "Fox on the Run" as first-tier powerpop, and "Rock and Roll Love Letter" as really good but a half-step down; I'm not as big on the Raspberries, but "Go All the Way" and "Overnight Sensation" are good singles. Where Xhuxk and I part company are a lot of the late-'70s bands, most of which just sound generic to me.

And where we really part company, if I'm remembering clemenza's tastes correctly, are a lot of the later (late '80s through '00s) college radio bands, most of which just sound like dead air to me. (Btw, I agree that some of those '79 new wave bands are generic -- not so much the Knack, but definitely say the Beat --but the best of them managed an energy and oomph that made like them regardless -- and that later people like Teenage Fanclub and Matthew Sweet and New Pornographers and Sugar never touched, in songs I heard at least.)

Gotta correct myself on something I was way off on: "Eight Days a Week" was Dec. '64, "Substitute" March '66. So there's quite a gap between the two--15 months in the mid-'60s is like a lifetime. ("She Don't Care About Time" was Oct. '65.)

out of this list? I would've totally voted for Third. There's a lot of great albums on this list, whether or not they belong here...

I'll never understand how, say, Big Star (much less Jellyfish, ick) count but the Raspberries and Sweet and Bay City Rollers don't.

The thing with Sweet and Bay City Rollers may be that they were kind of corporate, i.e. not writing their own material. Plus Sweet are obviously glamrock while Bay City Rollers were just as obviously a boy band.

That said, the material Sweet did with Mack as a producer was often very powerpop-like.

@ brotherlovesdub: I'll try...

Pop: Catchy, hummable, danceable often lighthearted or gooey sentimental fare with hooks that grab ya. Doesn't generally "swing" too much. Frequently kinda lame, really. SHort for "popular."

Rock: That, you know, Loud stuff that tends to emphasize 2 & 4 in 4/4 time.

Powerpop: A subset of both Rock & Pop that is melodic and all that, but avoids straying into the realm of ersatz schmaltzy pop like, say, Englebert Humperdink or Anne Murray. Generally has a strong electric guitar foundation rather than whiny strings or orchestrations. Also, generally used to suggest a 'sound' rather than as short for "Popular" since many of its practitioners tend to lurk a bit more underground. This has been particularly true since groops like Badfinger fell off the charts. Tends to avoid Hallmark sentimentality, get more "real."

So, can I vague that up any more for ya? :-)

I dunno, I hear plenty of sentimentality and syrup in music that people (including me) call powerpop. And tons of pop music on the charts (good and bad) swings more. (In fact, I get the idea that, for some people, not concentrating too much on rhythm is almost a powerpop requirement.)

What I'm more curious about is how people distinguish "powerpop" from "hard pop" or "pop-rock" (if people even use those terms anymore.)

IMO, if the syrupy goo is there you've pretty much sucked out the Power aspect - but there are exceptions to ALL of the above of course ("Girl of My Dreams" by Bram Tchaikovsky for example). And this is not a judgemental thing. Occasionally nothing satisfies quite like a good tearjerker. Heck, I've been known to weep over "Strawberry Wine"!

Thanks for the attempt. Maybe an exercise where you say Song A = Pop, Song B = Rock, Song C = Powerpop would be more illuminating. That way we/I can listen to the 3 songs and make the distinction sonically.

My own definition of a perfect powerpop song would be Fudge's "Girlwish" from 1991. I heard it for the first time about a year or so ago, when I downloaded it from a site called I Wish I Was a Flexidisc. Give it a listen. If you love it as much as I do, our definitions are probably pretty close; if you consider it short on power, even "wimpy"--for me, boys getting all wistful and starry-eyed over girls is a template for power-pop, and if you want to call that wimpy, so be it--then your definition is different than mine. Or to put it another way: "Substitute" and "I Can't Reach You" and "Circles" by the Who are all sublime power-pop; the more they start upping the power-chord quotient, they move closer and closer to bare-chested Daltrey and the early-to-mid-70s Who.

(In fact, I get the idea that, for some people, not concentrating too much on rhythm is almost a powerpop requirement.)

Concentrating a lot on melody and harmony is definitely a powerpop requirement. If that, by your definition, means "not concentrating too much on rhythm", then you are perfectly right.

And btw. I am not able to distinguish much between powerpop and pop/rock. Unless AOR is also counted in the latter category.

A few extremely archetypical powerpop songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3t66Nrqteo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAH1ioLiaHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7tkDZ58DEw

That is, jangly guitars with not too much fuzz/overdrive, a very "classic" melody built upon verse-bridge-chorus with lots of hooks. A bouncy singalong chorus and a lot of vocal harmonies.

I like all of those, btw, and agree that they're all undeniably powerpop. (In fact, "Starry Eyes," which I love, was the first archetype that came to mind for me.) Just don't think they're the only kind of powerpop; for a somewhat tougher variety, maybe listen to Cheap Trick's "Surrender" or the Knack's "My Sharona" or the Sweet's "Blockbuster" or the Bay City Rollers' "Saturday Night" or Urge Overkill's "Sister Havana" or 38 Special's "Caught Up In You." (Haven't listened to the song clemenza recommended yet, though I will try to.)

I always include Urge Overkill's beautiful "Back on Me" (same album) on power-pop CDs I make for friends.

And that's probably the most pressing issue of all: is it powerpop or power-pop?

Rick Springfield's "Love is Alright Tonight" (hell most of Working Class Dog) is a perfect example of "power-pop."

So where do "Orgasm Addict" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" fit in?

I like all of those, btw, and agree that they're all undeniably powerpop. (In fact, "Starry Eyes," which I love, was the first archetype that came to mind for me.) Just don't think they're the only kind of powerpop; for a somewhat tougher variety, maybe listen to Cheap Trick's "Surrender" or the Knack's "My Sharona" or the Sweet's "Blockbuster" or the Bay City Rollers' "Saturday Night" or Urge Overkill's "Sister Havana" or 38 Special's "Caught Up In You." (Haven't listened to the song clemenza recommended yet, though I will try to.)

On the other hand, I would say Jellyfish and Crowded House, and possibly even ELO (lots of powerpop fans absolutely love ELO) represent a less tough variety that is also undeniably powerpop.

Rick Springfield's "Love is Alright Tonight" (hell most of Working Class Dog) is a perfect example of "power-pop."

All of his 80s albums are great powerpop albums. I guess he was wrongfully seen as some kind of teenybopper because of his 70s material.

Yeah, see, stuff like Jellyfish and Crowded House is where I start not hearing at all what's so powerpop about it. Seems to me more like....art-pop. Or soft rock. Or indie rock. Or something.

CH and Split Enz are definitely neither "power-pop" nor powerpop: too many spongy keyboards and sludgy tempos.

Yeah, see, stuff like Jellyfish and Crowded House is where I start not hearing at all what's so powerpop about it. Seems to me more like....art-pop. Or soft rock. Or indie rock. Or something.

it's called crap

Well, it's at least called adult contemporary (or adult alternative?), maybe. And I say that as somebody who has come to not-hate "Don't Dream It's Over" over the years, btw. But if that counts as powerpop, then why not, I dunno, Heart's or Chicago's or Air Supply's or Phil Collins's '80s ballad hits? (So yeah, I deifnitely need to hear some power in there, somewhere.)

"Orgasm Addict" is just punk to me; it doesn't fit in with my conception of power-pop at all. Ditto "Smells Like Teen Spirit," even though I realize it borrows its key chord progression from "More Than a Feeling," which definitely is power-pop at the edge of...I don't know, something--it's power-pop, but it's more high-tech than most of my favourites. (It's a great song, I'm not taking anything away from it.) I've coined a different word for "Smells Like Teen Spirit": I call it "grunge." Rick Springfield's stuff I don't know at all, but I will say that "Jessie's Girl" in Boogie Nights might be the most self-reflexively great use of a pop song in any film ever.

Crowded House--ugh.

Well, what makes "Orgasm Addict" (or at least, say, "What Do I Get?" or "Why Can't I Touch It?" or "Homicide" by 999 or the first Generation X album or whatever) not just punk and "Teen Spirit" (or Local H's "Bound To The Floor," or maybe Stone Temple Pilots' "Big Bang Baby") not just grunge is how sweet and bouncy their melodies are. I mean, I'd say early Green Day were just as much powerpop as punk, too. And even though I mostly hate it, emo probably has a lot of powerpop in it, too. Songs are allowed to be in two genres at one time.

I'd say lots of teen-pop (by Avril or whoever) overlaps with powerpop by now, too. And even some Tom Petty/Bryan Adams/Springfield-influenced Nashville country (from Brad Paisley, Jack Ingram, Keith Urban, etc.)

Actually, Skye Sweetnam's debut LP from a couple years ago was totally a powerpop album, as much as Exploding Hearts' (which I also like a lot) was. (So's some hair metal: early Poison, for instance.)

Green Day is powerpop to the bone

I love Crowded House but it doesn't belong in this category.

Most of that punk and grunge stuff, I just don't hear it as power-pop. (I guess I could stretch my definition to possibly include something like "Walking Contradiction.") It's more of an intuitive feeling with me, which admittedly does not provide for a very cogent definition. (It's like that old I-know-pornography-when-I-see-it evasion.) But to start admitting anything and everything just by virtue of it having guitars and a melody--and I'll agree that most everything you mention is melodic--widens the net way too much. Recent teen-pop and '80s hair-metal, maybe...somewhat. Most of what I know, I just think it's kind of generic. Country I draw a blank.

I'd love to hear that when you finish it

i was the Crocodile Tears submitter... believe i came across it a couple years ago trawling streaming service new zealand 80s playlists looking for jangle obscurities, or maybe clicking through "similar artists" when finding an interesting group thereon. it's definitely an interesting album veering from roy wood / deaf school type oldies gone slightly overegged towards split enz type tamely berzerk new wave prog, but really the only song that sticks with me is the single. i guess it was a pretty fair hit in new zealand, #17 in 1980. and you gotta love a band that makes the two singers one female one male feel equally weighted and natural, it creates a sort of self-contained world of "we can sing from any romantic perspective and comment on it".

jenny morris recorded an inxs b-side cover of jackson in 1985 that is probably her most interesting post-crocodiles recording.

― mig (guess that dreams always end), Friday, January 24, 2025 11:46 PM

"Tears"' profile in NZ was sustained a bit by both Jenny Morris' big solo hits / supermarket bangers ("Body & Soul"/"She Has To Be Loved"/"Break In The Weather") and a fairly dire/slick '92 re-recording, as well as being prominently sampled in the Headless Chickens' Cruise Control (funny how Flying Nun's biggest chart hits were from a more-or-less grebo band).

When you were trawling for NZ jangle obscurities, did you come across Christchurch's The Perfect Garden? Recorded late 80s but not properly released until 2018-ish.

Very late but I also think lack of inclusion of the Smithereens is a crime.
Also Syd Straw's Surprise!

xp no i hadn't heard The Perfect Garden, this is an excellent ep

Cherry Red had a really cheap deal on a 3CD set of early Shoes material 73-78.
Already reduced plus 20% off during January. So came out at about £8.

Haven't really heard the contents but the band self recorded 3 or 4 lps before they got signed to a larger label.

20% off any old product on Cherry Red label with a code that's on the label website. Until end of month.
So I think might be any non new release product specifically on the sub label of the name.

that Shoes box is well worth it for £8. I've got most of it already but there's a few bonus tracks there I don't think I've heard. not sure I've heard their Bomp single tbh although it's just different versions of songs that appear on their other records

Syd Straw's Surprise

Hmm, other than the dBs cover, I don't hear any power-pop on this; country-rock, folk-rock, Americana, some kinds of art rock...