Big & Rich: Album of the Decade?

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if i was skeptical before (and remain a bit so) it's because the *concept* seems to very obviously push certain of chuck's buttons: admixture of "black" and "white" genres that will possibly confound and excite fans of both; unabashedly populist (and popular); etc. which is not to say that the *music* isn't necessarily great, but a lot of critical hosannas (in general, not just referring to chuck or to this album) seem to be a response to what an album *represents* more than how it *sounds*.... i think that explains a lot of the albums on the pazz & jop polls that we now look at and just shrug (arrested development etc.). but the fact that so many people--with different perspectives/tastes/agendas-- have given this album a thumb's up makes me much more willing to give it a chance.

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:05 (nineteen years ago) link

a lot of critical hosannas (in general, not just referring to chuck or to this album) seem to be a response to what an album *represents* more than how it *sounds*

Heh. Interestingly enough, this is often what I was thinking about many (not all) reactions to Justified.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:13 (nineteen years ago) link

C'mon Ned, you doubt ppl's honest reactions to "Cry Me A River"?

djdee2005, Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:32 (nineteen years ago) link

*SIGH*

MANY (NOT ALL)

If needed, I will e-mail an mp3 of that on an endless loop.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:40 (nineteen years ago) link

hahaha heaven.

djdee2005, Thursday, 2 September 2004 03:41 (nineteen years ago) link

i was all ready to believe the hype up through "Holy Water," but the album seems to fall apart a bit after that - "Saved" and "Drinkin' Bout You" are pretty good, but "Real World" and the last two are instantly forgettable, "Save a Horse" still just sounds too bad-gimmicky to me, and "Love Train" is execrable. It's still top 20 of the year for me just cause of greatness like "Wild West Show," "Kick My Ass," and "Six Foot Town" though.

Josh Love (screamapillar), Thursday, 2 September 2004 06:55 (nineteen years ago) link

I played my friend "rollin'" & she said it sounded like "that country song metallica did".

etc, Thursday, 2 September 2004 07:19 (nineteen years ago) link

See my girlfriend's comments upthread; weird, why do GIRLS hear the metallica connection? except i wonder what "country song metallica did" your friend is talking about --"whiskey in the jar," maybe?

people have been writing about how the album sounds, not just what it stands for, ever since the thing came out (all through this thread, and elsewhere). ditto justin's album, so i don't get that complaint at all. but that's just me. + "real world," "save a horse," and "wild west show" are three of the best songs on the album, to my ears. though it's still neat how people gravitate toward different tracks.

chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:29 (nineteen years ago) link

ned: i know what you mean about justin timberlake. i think the album is spotty, although there isn't a song that i really dislike, just a few i'm sort of "eh" about.

i think an album can have enormous merit and *still* be sort of misjudged (not necessarily "overrated") by its critics on account of what it represents in the marketplace. but like i said, this is a skepticism i'm happy to put aside right now. i know many people have been writing about how the record sounds--the reason i'm more open to it than my reaction to the single would normally allow.

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:34 (nineteen years ago) link

And oddly, "Holy Water," which lots of people seem to love, is one my *least* favorite tracks (though I still like it fine); it's kinda draggy, like most of the slower songs except "Wild West Show" (which is completely beautiful; that Morricone/Duane Eddy twang kills me every time). But again, different strokes...

xpost

chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:37 (nineteen years ago) link

god the morricone/eddy twang in 'hey ya' (i've called it that for a while now, why stop now) totally makes it for me too, for some reason (or several actually) this song always reminds me of 'seminole wind' which is only one of my fave songs ever so i'm sure that plays into my loving it too

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, "Seminole Wind" by John Anderson; wow, that TOTALLY makes sense. And that was one of the best country songs of the '90s, easy -- especially the long version with all that okefenokee swamp alligator music at the beginning. (Donna the Buffalo do a really good cover of that song, by the way.) (Weirdly, though, what "Wild West Show" always makes ME think of is "Indian Outlaw" -- though the Big & Rich version is much better than the Tim McGraw version.)

chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:48 (nineteen years ago) link

i hate "holy water" and "real world" is easily the best song on the album

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:51 (nineteen years ago) link

ditto justin's album, so i don't get that complaint at all

This will sidetrack massively if I really get into it, but I'll just say that more than once I had a (completely individual) sensation that if that album didn't exist it would have to be invented, that it can be seen to function as a massive wish fulfillment of (in the VERY VERY broadest of terms) early 21st century teen-pop-into-hip-hop in the highest of profiles. Please note I say 'seem to function,' though, and that Chuck's observation is fully accurate.

As for Big and Rich again, they can't get loud enough for me. I want speed-metal chords as hooks next.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:54 (nineteen years ago) link

It's out here on Monday! I am excited.

jel -- (jel), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link

Frank Kogan told me that "Real World" is his favorite track, too (on by far his favorite album of the year, last time we talked about it) -- because of that insane Red Nex-style cossak-disco squaredance it turns into. (Though maybe I already said that upthread, I forget.)

chuck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link

I think you will like it very much, Jel! It will appeal to the RAWK beast in your soul.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't like B&R but lemme tell ya, I heard Kings of Leon for the first time this morning. I cannot get worked up about B&R anymore, not while that's out there.

Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 2 September 2004 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link

gah i saw KoL live (as an opening act) and they were AWFUL

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 18:11 (nineteen years ago) link

i like it for the faux-reggae opening verses that remind me of the dillard hartford dillard album. (i don't think it's my fave album of they year, but def. top ten)

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 2 September 2004 19:44 (nineteen years ago) link

See my girlfriend's comments upthread; weird, why do GIRLS hear the metallica connection? except i wonder what "country song metallica did" your friend is talking about --"whiskey in the jar," maybe?

I'm betting it's Metallica's cover of Bob Seger's "Turn the Page." Which it doesn't sound like really, but ...
Nevertheless, I'm having trouble getting overly excited about this album as a whole. There are certainly some fine songs, and I understand the thought process behind it, but ... eh. I guess I'll give it some time.

Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 2 September 2004 23:08 (nineteen years ago) link

that's funny you mention them b/c I've been looking for bands that reminded me of DBT
Tried Slobberbone? Not that I'm into them, but there are a lot of DBT fans who are ...

Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 2 September 2004 23:10 (nineteen years ago) link

They sound very Vedder-ish on the first two tracks. The entire first half doesn't spring out as much as I expected it to, it's not as immediate/cartoonish as "Save A Horse (Ride A Cowboy)" and everything that comes after it; even the rapping seems a bit shy and restrained. A lot of it sounded to me like it could be The Wallflowers or Train or whatever, I guess that's where the layers come in (have only heard once, and as such haven't had a chance to explore them yet.) That said the second half is very much the OTT instant appeal extravaganza that I had expected, so I'll accept the first one even if it doesn't turn out to be as great on repeated listening as you guys say it is.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 3 September 2004 00:29 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
I'm really glad I stumbled across this thread! I saw the Save a Horse video on a UK music channel months ago, had the seemingly-standard "WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?" reaction then couldn't remember who sang it.
Mr Eddy, your enthusisasm for this record is both highly infectious and totally spot on! I managed to find a copy yesterday, and right now even 'album of the decade' seems to be damning it with faint praise...

M Carty (mj_c), Friday, 24 September 2004 07:40 (nineteen years ago) link

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chuck, Tuesday, 28 September 2004 14:57 (nineteen years ago) link

! And Bad Brains dudes too? Man. There's a show I want a bootleg of.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:00 (nineteen years ago) link

fascinating. by this time next year, they'll probably be adding ween, the roots and string cheese incident to the mix.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I was just thinking to myself last week that Big and Rich REALLY NEEDED to cover the first example of their kind of music, Parliament's "Little Old Country Boy." This will give them their damn chance for realz. I wanted to move to Tennessee last year but it didn't work out and now I will be kicking myself forever as there is very little chance that this tour will repeat itself in Wisconsin.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 15:08 (nineteen years ago) link

the press release says the Bad Brains guys HAVE been in the funk mob, not that all these people will be at the show.

manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link

So I'm finally getting around to listening to this.

Is genre-crossing all it takes to become the album of the year these days?

And didn't Kid Rock kind of do this already?


I don't get it, Tuesday, 28 September 2004 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't think of another album that came out this year that even comes close to this album for sheer enjoyment. I just listened to it again tonight and if anything I like it even more now. I STILL get chills when I hear Rollin' and Save A Horse. Real honest to goodness CHILLS. That doesn't happen that often to me.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 23:17 (nineteen years ago) link

noice

big chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 29 September 2004 03:00 (nineteen years ago) link

And didn't Kid Rock kind of do this already?

Yes he did. But Kid Rock is getting very hard to defend, because a lot of groups (Big and Rich especially) are doing what Kid Rock tried to do, except a billion times better.

My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Wow, I finally got around to listening to this and I must say it is not my style at all. I almost couldn't bear to finish it.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link

This record is anti-everything my roommate likes, so I would love the album for that alone.

My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 22:00 (nineteen years ago) link

big & rich really aren't all that similar to kid rock. you could make some pretty nice segues between his songs and theirs and back again, but they're a close-harmony vocal group at heart, and he's, well, i'm not sure exactly what he is when you boil him down to his core, but he's not a close-harmony vocal group, i'm pretty damn sure of that.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I am so scared to investigate this record.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Thus far this is the only sense anyone's talked about this record.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, that review did indeed make me wonder.

Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:45 (nineteen years ago) link

This album is why god invented file sharing. I downloaded two of the big singles everyone was talking about and knew right away it wasn't for me. Once upon a time I might have bought the album.

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 7 October 2004 11:53 (nineteen years ago) link

that grauniad review doesn't want NOVELTY, it doesn't want token nods towards other genres, it wants REAL innovation, REAL depth of understanding and considered, measured interpretations that borrow from the authentic CORE of the genre, not its most visible excesses. i mean it's like jeff koons thinks he's really michaelangelo!

m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:06 (nineteen years ago) link

ha ha, that review in TEH guardian made me laugh when it came out. Somone pointed out it can almost be read both as sarcastic condemnation OR as the widest-eyed accolade ever: viz

That's Big Kenny and John Rich, with rappin' sidekick Cowboy Troy, who's black, which of course, is treated as a huge novelty. Billed as "country without prejudice" - in other words, country that recognises that other genres actually exist - this monumentally straightforward record's claims to innovation are like asking a woman to be wildly appreciative that her husband just about manages to cook a fry-up once a month. Horse of a Different Color sounds like Billy Ray Cyrus driving a juggernaut - that's how innovative it is. If you squint really hard you might just be able to convince yourself there's something faintly homoerotic about the whole ghastly enterprise, but that's pushing it. Actually, peek inside the booklet and you will find Kenny and John wearing Wild West-style dresses and, natch, ironic expressions. Like the Bush twins at the MTV awards, this is arch-conservatism in a half-hearted search for cool. Big? Almost certainly and hence, quite probably, rich too. Not, by any means, clever.

FIVE STARS

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:17 (nineteen years ago) link

it's like a zooming-out mandelbrot set of smirks.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:24 (nineteen years ago) link

i thought maybe the five grey stars were all unfilled, ie. nought stars

m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:38 (nineteen years ago) link

sadly the dance mixes don't do big & rich justice. more rednex than what a big & rich dance mix could be. a let-down

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Mitch is right - it was a zero-star rating.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:54 (nineteen years ago) link

My opinion? Big Jim Jehosophat and Fatbelly Jones did this sort of stuff so much better in the '70s.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:00 (nineteen years ago) link

My opinion? That review is pretty funny except that it pretends to be about the record, which it isn't. I can understand not liking the record, maybe, if your prejudices go that way, but that review was clearly written after listening to the first two songs ("Wild West Show" isn't really a very good song to my ears, I've already said that) and a big bile build-up after seeing the Republican Nat'l Convention on the telly. It's so much fun to hate Americans, I do it too all the time! But note the lack of specifics and figure it out for yrselves etc.

Fatbelly Jones. Marcello...well, there's nothing to say here.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Also Peter Watts of Time Out and sometimes of this parish said it was a one-listen novelty, just like Goldie Lookin Chain and Jet.

I sent for a copy of the Big and Rich album and have listened to it.

Having done so, I agree with Mr Peschek's conclusions.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:06 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost - Yes, but Alan's point is that the star rating is in a state of Heisenberg uncertainty until you actually get to the end of the review.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:09 (nineteen years ago) link


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