Jay Z/ Nas and other hiphop throwdowns...resurrected. Part 4

haha thanx jb.

okay one last try -- if its okay to say dre's album is great but not judged by hip-hop standards, then howcome missy needs to be judged by syllable-cramming undie-flow standards?

oh and blounts the only sport i follow are chess and figure skating.

sterl otm re: figure skating

"Young Hov's a snake charmer, move your body like a snake mama, make me wanna put the snake on you..." - Jay-Z

Anybody heard the remix with Jay-Z to that Panjabi MC song? Beware of the Boys? That's my cut right now...

Anyway, it's Hillis "Ice Cold" 3000, ya favorite Thundercat! Got numerous topics to drop knowledge on...

It looks like Qool and Trife can call each other and talk about how wack Outkast and how the other 9,003,987,234 who dig Outkast are fools, and how you two actually realize the truth............ I'm lying. Whoa, copyright laws! I mean.......... I'm not telling the truth. Qoolout, your judgement of Kast seems to be solely based off their clothing in the videos and the two songs you've heard on the radio. You have said you usually dig it when rappers have a point, and generally dislike Southern music because they have no point and they rap about nothing. Of all Southern acts, Outkast speaks about the most relevant shit. And I mean on a Nas and/or Common level. "Growing Old" "Liberation" "Slum Beautiful" "Babylon" "Jazzy Belle" "D.E.E.P." "Git Up, Git Out" "Ova Da Wudz" "Mainstream" all have empowering messages and relevant lyrics. Of course, since you don't like Outkast, you probably haven't ever sampled these tracks, which is totally understandable. Now, maybe you just don't like Outkast at all, which I have no poblem with. It just seems like it's not actually based on their albums/music but more on some pictures in The Source from their Aquemini or Stankonia stage. And that's not an attack. I mean, if you ain't like the first 3 or 4 songs you heard by them, why would you go listening to all the rest of their stuff? And psychologically, you would probably go finding more reasons to dislike them, like we would all normally do. Now, Trife, I got your back 100% about DJ Paul. Personally, I like his/Three 6 beats. I'm a fan of Mystic Styles! I don't think he just presses buttons or uses a beat machine, but I do think he uses a program that actually have the instruments and drums presampled. Now he probably picks the melody and the baseline and snare, but of course he doesn't play each individual instrument. It's all computerized, so while I think that takes some talent, let's not mistake him for Timbo or Dre. But Lil Flip? How can you talk all this noise about Kast, then post The Way We Ball??? Now, like Sterling said, I don't mind the fake words and I actually like the song, but don't sit here and try to convince anybody Lil Flip has more than MINIMAL lyrical skills AND then say "its not as if stupid shit like 'outkast are real music with real instruments, etcetera, etcetera, are uncommon, so on and so forth..." I mean, if you ever look at the production credits you see credit for the bass guitar, piano, and other instruments. Not on all songs, but the majority. And Andre can actually play the guitar and other instruments, too. I mean, you can diss Kast, but don't try to play up Lil Flip at the same time. He's funny and I like a lot of his verses, but NOT because they are lyrically impressive. They're amusing. For example, on the David Banner "Like A Pimp" collabo he spits, "We make em swallow the nut, so follow the truck, Lil Flip and David Banner we got all of the bucks, and all of sluts..." LAMO! I was rollin, but let's not get crazy and start trying to compare the wordplay to Jigga or Biggie or even Bun B!

Qoolout, I forgot to also ask you why you weren't feeling Reasonable Doubt. It's the same as me not feelin Illmatic or Ready to Die, but I thought you'd feel that album, especially as a fan of Jay! You confuse me sometimes, playa... lol I mean, I guess we all have albums we just dislike even though everybody else might like em, so maybe you just don't like it. But what about classics like Dead Presidents or Can I Live? Those definitely have tight topics. And I dig the flow and beats, so I'm surprised you don't like that. Or what about the BIG song, Brooklyn's Finest? I also like Feelin It and Can't Knock the Hustle but they are kinda jiggy. And Ain't No Nigga is straight. But Can I Live is MUPHUKIN FLAMES, NICCA!

When I first heard Memphis Bleek, I thought he sucked. I still think he sucks. I liked him on Is That Your Chick and the Hey Papi remix, but that was only because I suspect Jay ghostwrote his verses or highly influenced them. I mean, on Coming of Age on Reasonable Doubt, him and Jay go back and forth on some SUPER GAY SHIT. That whole, "Hey let's ride around a while/I like your style/naw I like YOUR style/man I'll ride with you for free" is some RuPaul mess for real.

I ain't diss Busta. I think he's a tight rap act. I think Busta has come out with some classics, too, like "Everything Remains Raw" and "Woo Haa" and there are a lot of songs I like with Busta and by Busta. But as an MC? Nah, not really. I mean Busta has some skills, but he's not versatile. Like, that verse about Ja wasn't bad, but I ain't really feel the mean Busta. Like he said, he need to go back to his normal self and have fun.

Now, you've taken the Randy debate a bit further. I think you're a little too general in comparing YAC to TDs. I mean, there are different circumstances to both. I mean, a screen can get you great YAC, but all that is is a pass play turned into a run. Or if you catch a slant across the middle and happen to gain big yardage, is that really talented? I mean, concentrating on a deep TD ball when all the defender has to do is get a couple fingers on it to mess up everything can be just as hard as breaking tackles or having the vision to see how to get down the field after the catch. Or how do you say making a catch and then breakin tackles for a 40 yd gain is better than catching a TD pass goin out of bounds and managing to keep both feet in? I don't say either is better, but how does one say what is better? I don't know. Or how is getting wide open in the end zone for a TD better than catching a 5 yd pass on 3rd and 20 and somehow managing to get the first down? I don't know. To me, YAC may be better when you're trying to get down the field in the last 2 min, but if it's like on the 10 and we got only one play to score, I'd rather have a sure handed receiver who'll get a TD. It's all circumstantial.

Now your best player remark is intriguing as well. I don't necessarily think he is the best player, just the most imposing. He may not even be the league MVP (I personally say McNair or McNabb), but he definitely changes a game plan more than any other player. Now, me, I don't think you can have a best player in football. Unlike basketball or baseball or generally any other sport, you have different sets of players dedicated to defense and offense. And both are equally important. Forget all this nonsense about defense wins championships. TEAMS win championships. If defense won championships, Tampa would have 5 Super Bowls. And Baltimore would have 5, too. It takes a balance somewhere on both sides of the ball. That's why last year Kansas City sucked with their great offense and Carolina sucked with their great defense. Now add a defense to KC, a ground game to the Panthers and they're both undefeated! So after all that rambling, I find it hard to crown a best player. I don't think you could give it to a QB or RB - even though they are more likely to be an MVP. I mean, you gotta control the line of scrimmage with the O Line, your QB has to make good decisions, your RB has to see the holes, your WRs gotta get open AND catch the ball AND possibly get many YACs. Plus your team must close in the red zone. Then you gotta put out a defense with linebackers that can seek the ball, D linemen that can control the line of scrimmage, DBs that can run support as well as blanket receivers. And they gotta all get to the ball. And special teams can be crucial (ask Baltimore about Dante Hall and Tampa about all them blocked kicks). You gotta have leaders who may not be the best players. Football is the ultimate team sport, and every depends on somebody way too much for somebody to be labeled the best in football. Best at a specific position, sure, and maybe even on offense and defense. But on football? Nah...

And what do you think of TO's side explosion? And post game comments? I personally think TO has a right to be upset and the sideline explosion wasn't as bad as some people try to make it. But I do think he should have kept the comments about no heart to himself. Especially when he directed them at everyone but himself. He probably should have said he was disappointed and that he feels that the team will use this week to get better and all the united front cliches. Of course, then he could have went nuts within the 49er organization. But he does try harder and play with the most emotion. And you never hear about him on crack or rapin teenagers, so off the field he's cool. His on the field antics may ruffle purists, but I like him. SF would be crazy to trade him or let him sign elsewhere, but hey, they gotta do what they gotta do.

All right, I'm through educatin folk.

I'm out like Laverne and Shirley Coles. Peace!

"That ain't platinum, that's a silvery chain..." - Lil Flip

Hey, I am literally laughin my ass off right now. Honestly, I looked at somethin previously posted and started laughin and I was about to start typin but I had to stop cause I had tears in my eyes! I just recovered from about two minutes of laughter from somethin H*WOOD said...

"Freestyle King my ass!"

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

Hey, the reason it's so funny is that I can imagine the look on your face when you said that. After all your rantin about Flip, you come out of nowhere with "Freestyle King my ass!" HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!! I'm still rollin (on the floor laughin)! Make no mistake about it, I am definitely laughin with you! LOL

H*WOOD, you might even find it more amusing to know that Flip has beef with some other lame ass no name nigga about who is really the Freestyle King! But I forgot some things, plus saw a new battle come out of nowhere! Ciniblount, where did all this beef come from? Sterling, Ned, Gabbo?

I forgot to mention that Moss has had like 8 QBs and he makes them all look good. Jeff George, Randall Cunningham, Gus Frerotte, Daunte Culpepper, that other white guy from last year. Moss makes any QB look good, so the theory that he needs a certain QB seems invalid. Eric Moulds is straight. He's probably a little under Harrison and T.O. but he's definitely got skills. I bet Peerless Price can attest to that! And as far as the Redskins go, your argument for the Redskins is atrocious. The only reason they have the best record right now is because they've played one more game than everyone else in the division! And like I said, they're 0-1 in the NFC East. That's right, a big huge donut in the win column! And since when do we get hype about teams who beat 0-4 teams (Jets) and teams without their star (Falcons)? Weak bastards... Sterling, I think Dre sucks lyrically, too, plus I don't dig the first Chronic. But he has skills with production and his ghost writers are superb. And Missy can actually sing. At least, I think she has a good singing voice.

Somebody please define "hip hop" to me, because comments that Missy and Andre 3000 haven't done hip hop, or quality hip hop baffle me. Is hip hop a genre of music? Is it different from gansta rap, or rap in general? Who qualifies as hip hop? Who doesn't? Why? Who can define hip hop and be considered legitimate? Why? Does hip hop have to be accepted on certain intellectual levels? Is hip hop simply the anti-mainstream? Can a mainstream song be hip hop? Is 2Pac hip hop, gangsta rap, or both? Are there sub levels of hip hop? I ask because I think we all define it differently based on personal opinons and not any universal criteria. I find it hard to accept that Outkast is not hip hop. I think they would be insulted. And I think some of hip hop's heavyweights like 2Pac, Jay-Z, NWA, Snoop, Busta, and numerous others would be left out of some definitions. And that's just what it seems to me. I just think if you considered some of your definitions, then I don't see how 2Pac can be a hip hop artist by it. And if you think 2Pac isn't hip hop, then you're an idiot.

I'm out like hip hop. Peace!

hillis, i think the "andre = not hip hop" line is something close to "no beats, no rhymes (at least , few beats or rhymes that are trying to work the way beats and rhymes do in hip hop) = no hip hop". i don't know that anyone here (tho i'm definitely seeing things on this thread that suggest otherwise) has any particularly protective notions of hiphop, or is looking to define it against mainstream rap (you know, the one without the 38 elements of TRUE Hip Hop including breakdancing and spelunking and carving mandolins out of tree trunks or whatever).

(well okay, obviously part of that isn't true - trife at least is more protective of his idea of hiphop than just about anyone ever, but in pretty much the opposite way that i think you were suggesting.)

me, jess, sterl, and trife don't have any beef really. we all luv each other but get a little pissy sometimes. ain't no thing.
genre names tend to be just a way about thinking about a piece of music at best or a trap for would-be gatekeepers to deem 'this isn't real hip-hop/rock/jazz/country/whatever' at worst. that said it isn't too radical (which isn't to say it would be correct) to suggest that 'hip-hop' implies rapping and that while missy's might be perfect pop records they might be lacking as hip-hop records, see "gossip folks" which just improves drastically when ludacris pops in to the point where you wish the record was 'ludacris feat. missy' instead of vice versa (see also that beastie boys with q-tip or pretty much every dre record with snoop/ice cube/eminem ever). the andre record has so little rapping on it that if it weren't for his background I don't know how many people would call it a hip-hop album - I mean prince's early nineties albums didn't get called hip-hop and they had about as much rapping on them. I've liked outkast from 'player's ball' thru stankonia (wasn't as crazy about 'the whole world' or the scooby doo song), but the new one still sounds really really disappointing to me after nearly a month. the big boi isn't bad but it didn't impress me or make me wanna do anything (dance, laugh, anything) - there's at least five other hip-hop albums outta georgia alone that'll be better than it this year. I'm happy andre's stretching his wings and finding himself or whatever but at least 80% of that record I've heard done by others better and earlier elsewhere and if I wanna listen to that I'll listen to them. that record's like what would happen if warren sapp decided to play a whole game at TE and only at TE - yeah, it's interesting and amusing and maybe even effective for a couple of snaps but to do it for the whole game (or for a whole album) means you've forgotten what works and what you're good at. congrats on wanting to stretch and be an artist and all that but don't expect me to listen to it.
as for moss vs. t.o. - puhleeze, I love t.o., that thing in dallas was classic, plus motherfucker is cut, but moss has been the best receiver in the league every year he's been in the league cept for last year when marvin harrison and owens were incredible and moss suffered from culpepper flaking out (and even then moss was in the top three). I got moss up top, with t.o. and harrison behind them (though to be honest can you imagine how good owens or moss would be with manning throwing to them?), with moulds behind them, and hines ward behind him (UGA represent!)(how UT gonna almost lose to the gamecocks? I wish casey claussen could stay their QB forever).
as for owen's temper tantrum - that's what wide receivers do (cept for rice, rice is pretty much the only good WR that makes any effort at blocking either, jerry rice is a saint), look at david boston, look at peerless price. keyshawn wrote a book about it. if the niners somehow let him get away they're insane.
I'm out like jeff garcia's back!

First of all, I never said Outkast wasn't hip-hop. Personally, I don't like them as solo rappers, a duo, or as a crew. I mentioned this because, almost everybody that I know loves them. Hillis, I wasn't basing my dislike for the music on the way they dress even if I did mention it. You are right about me hearing mainly the bs they play on the radio, but in college I had the misfounture of residing next to a die hard Outkast fan. Cuz played it all the time, the radio joints and the non radio joints and I didn't like them, it, and now I don't even like cuz. In conclusion to this, it's like you said, if I don't like the radio cuts I probably would never sample the entire cd (at least not with an open mind). As for football, of course touchdowns beat out any other stat all day long. TD's win games, I know. But to me, it just takes more skill(i)s to catch and run. With a TD catch, you can already be in the end zone; as to with a catch on the 20 you have to cacth it and then take it to the end zone. I'm not knocking TD grabs, but anybody who played or even watched enough football knows that cacthing it in the end zone is not as hard as catching it and then taking it toward or to the end zone, right? I can't really define hip hop but I know it's based on not just music and rap, but on the way we/they talk and yes even dress. That's why I dissed those so called clothes that cuz from Kast wears. But hey, maybe that bamma dressing is a part of hip hop, I mean look at Busa Bus. I'm not feeling him or Missy because of the actual words that are in the raps that they spit. It sounds like they just sat down and wrote the songs in like ten mintues and then it gets all kinds of radio play. That's why I hate his and her "raps." Seemingly, they took NO time in the "writing" part, and as a writer myself, that is what irks me the most. As for me not liking RD, it may be because I started liking Jay late. I don't know if his voice changed up, his lyrics , flow or what, but I can't listen to too much before Hard Knock life. I guess that's just me. Oh yeah, I agree that Randy makes QB's look good, but you can't deny that it takes some skill to get the ball to him (even if it's just a lob). For example, I doubt if you could throw the joint 60 yards with 300 pound fools coming at you, while rolling out of the pocket. And the Skins are at the top. I don't need to read your spin on why they are there. The fact of the matter is they are there, cuz. And we did not beat a 0-4 Jet team. We beat a 0-0 Jet team. At the time them bammas hadn't loss any. We gave them the first, all the rest of them L's is a resualt of what happened opening day. Well, that last sentence is a strech of course, but as you will discover one day (hopefully) you never forget your first (whoa). Oh yeah, I don't like Dr. Dre' as a rapper either. More on that later. I'll also later tell why T.O's blow up was out of line and who I felt was the best player in football (for at least about two years).

"Some how this rap game reminds me of a crack game"--Nas circa 94

Hut one, Hut two, Hut three, Hike!....

What up peeps? As a die-hard 49ers fan, I do kinda understand why my man T.O. was going off the way he was (5 receptions for 55 yards?). Niners SHOULD have threw the ball to him more, as Vikings did for Moss, but T.O should not have blown up on his teammates and coaches. Now, as much as I can't believe I'm saying this, T.O stepped over the line (I DO ADMIRE HIS PASSION FOR THE GAME). All I'm saying is that if coaches keep letting T.O. get away with his antics, the other players WONT have any respect for the coaches. I just don't want T.O to give the orginization reasons to get him traded, so he does need to just check himself just a bit. Rice was a class act (and still my favorite childhood football player).He never berated his teammates (atleast not in public, in front of the millions..............and millions of the fans screamin their name...NINERS! NINERS! NINERS!, NINERS!....oh my bad....just one of those Rock moments). Rice is not doing bad at all for a 40 year old. Rice all I want to say is...when u retire,.......please retire your jersey as a niner. When u get a ring, you really got Sanfran a ring. Thank u for the memories.

Miami Canes are still Number 1 in my book until a team really beats them (They got robbed in championships last year with a pass interference call that was more fully blown than a man with AIDS).Oklahoma is a "paper" number one team right now until someone beats them or the Canes.

Boxing, right now has more paper champs than an arts & crafts class

Can't wait for NBA season. Lebron/Carmelo is gonna be the next Magic/Bird rivalry. I hope Kobe won't be wearng a different number, but just like everyone else, innocent till proven guilty. T'Wolves (my fav team) got a squad this year to help my boy KG. Do ya remember Spree as a 2 guard in Goldenstate? Nigga what?. Cassell, Szerbiak (Never get his name right) and Michael Olawakandi and Earv Johnson (two big bodies that can atleast neutralize Shaq (That's twelve fouls between them to hold Shaq to fewer points a game). Long live the wolves. We might actually get past the first round this year. Anything less than a championship this year is a failure (That includes beating the Lakers).

Oh yeah, Hip-Hop.

Peeps in Farmington, Ct (where 50's new mansion is) aren't very fond of having 50 as their new neighbor. Farmington (a wannabe wealthy Greenwich, Ct) has this so-called high standard and they dont really like having trouble coming into their corny ass town. My boy who's a state cop was telling me that they got the city and state police administratives talking to 50's reps about the situation. I guess they're just warning them that 50 won't go unnoticed.............

Gotta get the special edition Scarface on DVD (I heard it's bangin and it looks just like a new movie).

Can't believe this but I heard that the Band album is hot!!!!(Bad Boy this and Bad Boy that!! Take that Take that!)

What up Qoolout?!

Hillis what up? I really am interested in hearing your opinion of the Band.

What's up wit all these dudes wearing pink?! Cam f'd the game up for real.

Gotta go. See ya when I see ya. One

"And I'm flossin every chance that I get/Walking around with your advance on my neck/ I'm demanding respect"--Banks freestyle

Damn messed up. XXL is the shit, but they will lose a fan if they dont show this nigga Game in the Show and Prove section. This west coast rapper with an east coast type flow got some serious skills and even outshined Fab in one of the Clue mixtape freestyles (I'll turn your Antoine Walker jersey into a throwback Robert Parrish)......WOW!!! (That that Take that.)I mean even Chingy was in that section (i mean dude aint bad but c'mon).

I'm out like Kobe's basketball future (Just playin Laker fans. We all know he ain't do it)

it's the muh muh muh muh... muh muh muh muh MACK!

SHIZZIT! Everyone's back... except Back! Let me catch up with all this shit and post sumthing later.

Shoutout Ill Hill, Qool, Dolo, and Hollywood.

Its the return of the MACK baby!

Peace

"I'm bout to dip and see my sister up in - nah, can't tell you were I put my extra player card..." - Cool Breeze

Man, Qoolout, I don't want to press the issue, but I'm still not sure if you dislike Can I Live or Dead Presidents. I mean, I guess you did say that pre-Hard Knock Life was hard for you to stomach, so one could infer that this means that you do not like Can I Live or Dead Presidents. I guess I'm lookin for closure, because I still find it hard to believe that you of all people don't like Can I Live! That beat is superb and his flow isn't as high and fast as it is on the other songs, and it is about somethin. I'm tellin you, give it a re-listen and see if you ain't feelin it.

"...in college I had the misfounture of residing next to a die hard Outkast fan. Cuz played it all the time, the radio joints and the non radio joints and I didn't like them, it, and now I don't even like cuz..." - Qoolout

LOL!

Ok, you didn't say that Outkast isn't it hip-hop; however, you said you can't see what Andre 3000 has done for hip hop. If you admit that just about everybody you know likes them, how can you not see it? I may not personally like Ready to Die or Illmatic or the Infamous, but I can still see what they've done for hip hop. And I think your bringing their clothes in to judging them as hip hop is ridiculous! If you found out that Pac or the Kiss of Death wore the same clothes as Andre, you'd stop finding their music ill just like Will was? Hardly! They'd still be hip-hop... just with clothes you ain't like. I mean, I don't like the Dip set (Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set, Dip set) pink nonsense but I can't judge Camron buy that shirt in the Dip Set Anthem - or can I? Anyway, I just think hip hop should be based solely on the style of music. And even though Busta and Missy probably do writ their "raps" in 10 minutes, I doubt that has anything to do with their appeal. Their "acts" - i.e. their videos are either real tight or real funny. For example, Busta's "Pass the Corvoisseur" video was tight, especially with that scene from Harlem Nights. And Missy's videos are generally tight, from The Rain to Get Ur Freak On to One Minute Man to Gossip Folks. So even though they destroy the lyrical essence of hip hop, they do capture the style and commercial appeal of hip hop.

As far as Outkast's new album not being hip hop, I think that's far from the truth. Big Boi's CD is of the normal rap/hip hop genre, and as out there as Andre is, I think his roots/style is still based in hip hop. Even though the rap is minimal, there is still rapping and his topics still reside in the hip hop genre. True, the style is unorthodox and he is exploring himself as an artist, but still as a HIP HOP artist. Just like BIG on Playa Hata. Even though it's him singing and being silly, he's still exploring a side of himself based in hip hop. So even though it's not rapping per se, it's still hip hop.

Macka, you have had more returns than Michael Jordan. But Jordan at least stuck around a few years. You pop up, say what up, and dip for a good minute? What is the proverbial dealy, yo?

Joe P to the Dolo, I assume that Robert Parish throwback/Antoine Walker jersey line means that he'll shoot him and put a hole in his chest, making the "8" look like a "0" - Parish's number. Right? Even still, that line ain't THAT cold, is it? lol And Miami #1 until someone beats them? Please! What up with this Qoolout (ill)logic(al BS)? Miami ain't dominated nobody all year, and hasn't played worthy of their ranking yet PLUS Gore is gone! Not saying that OSU or OU are better, but don't play like Miami is proving itself to be the best team in the nation. Eh, H*WOOD? Miami is a pretender this year (well pretty much everybody is) and FSU or UT or VTech will prove it.

"Freestyle King my ass!"

I haven't heard Bad Boy Da Band yet, but I heard them on a radio station doing somethin in the radio station studio - so I'm not sure it was an official song. But what I heard was wack. The radio DJs were all on Puffy's nuts about em, too, but I was not impressed at all. I put Da Band right up there with Sheek's album. I must hear it before I buy it.

All right, I'm dismissing class.

I'm out like the Redskins will be in Philly with a ferocious L. Peace!

"How we goin out to eat? I thought you ain't swallow..." - Joe Budden

The only thing that makes me feel 1/4 of the way bettr about the Vols losing and the Tight Titans HANDING New England an easy victory is that the Redskins lost - to another NFC East team! You know, the division they run? Oops, my bad... the division they USED TO RUN? Now DallASS is on top of the division and that's a guaranteed L for the Redskins. The Redskins are second, technically, with ferocious Ls to the two teams they're supposedly ahead of. Wack ass Redskins.

I'm out like the Vols from the top ten (DAMMIT!). Peace!

The only thing that made me feel 2% better like the milk about the Skins taking an L, was the fact that I FORCED myself to watch two new Outkast videos this weekend, and what I thought to be true was confirmed. First of all, let me state that I know I am fighting a no win battle, because everybody but me loves O-Kast. With that said let me state my case. Let's start with the easier one. Some joint called "Hey Ya" I think. Maybe that ain't the name but it's something like that. That song is not a hip hop song. Cuz does not rap. Nowhere in there does he spit one verse. If you ask me, it sounds more like an R&B joint. But that ain't even the point; the point is that the song is terrible. I can't even figure out what the topic suppose be and I know you shouldn't judge a artist strickly off of one track, but if I were to do that I'd be forced to say "cuz sucks!" Next I saw the other joint by the other Outkast member, and I regret that I can't remember the name of it. But what I do recall is that I didn't like that one either. Come on, even Hillis has to admit that even if these guys are good rappers, they don't showcase that talent with the mentioned singles. And I challenge Hillis to show me and the rest of the Inet fam when and where I said Outkast wasn't hip-hop. I never said that. Since I hate the music they rap/sing I can see how you made this mistake but I never said they were or are not hip-hop. To answer your questions, I don't remember the two Jay tracks you asked about. I listened to the RD cd and overall I didn't like it; maybe there are 1 or 2 tracks I'd like and if I get my hands on that cd again, I will make it a point to listen to the ones you suggeted. Also, if Kiss or Pac dressed like Outkast or Busta, no I wouldn't just start disliking their songs but if they rapped like Kast or Bus then I would. And are you saying clothing is not a part of hip-hop? I'm not saying rank their music by what they wear, but Roc-a-wear, Sean John and all the other clothing lines started by rappers ARE indeed a part of hip-hop. Oh yeah, the "Pass the Corvoisseur" song you mentioned proves my point, or even songs like "Make it Clap." To me, it seems like Butsa and them came up with what they figured was a tight hook (but it really wasn't) and then they just made the song around that; and it's nothing wrong with that if you put together something that makes sense, however what they produced was "Too much hair on your choca? Shave it off." Now maybe people like you guys enjoy that type of nonsense, but I happen to dislike, nay, HATE it. Shout out to 3:16 and J Dolo for shouting out Qool. Sorry, I still ain't talk about the former best player in the NFL or TO, but next time I will. Well, I'll try.

ps Yeah Hill, my boys lost and our STORM on top was short like short people, but we'll be back, Jack.

"Pay your fuckin beeper bill, bitch!" - Big Boi

Your light rain shower in the middle is still going on, son. And who you calling Jack??? Who you think you is, muphukin Ron O'Neal??? lol Dude, the Redskins haven't beaten anybody good! They got lucky against the Pats and choked against the Eagles. And who cares about the 0-4 Jets and Vickless Falcons. You're 0-2 in your division with a guaranteed L comin from DallASS!

I'll accept your challenge to go find where you said that Outkast wasn't hip-hop, if YOU accept MY challenge of finding where I said that you did! If you go back, you should see that I said...

"Ok, you didn't say that Outkast isn't it hip-hop; however, you said you can't see what Andre 3000 has done for hip hop." - H3K on 10/5/03

My only point was that just because you don't personally like a group doesn't mean you can ignore their accomplishments. At least, that's not a legitamate reason.

I told you and everybody in this thread that this album was not the album you should listen to if you're trying to discover Outkast. You have to know their progression from album to album to understand where Andre 3000 and Big Boi are going with Speakerboxxx/Love Below. I can honestly say that I enjoy "Hey Ya" as a video and a song. But that's because I know Andre 3000 and I know that'll he'll come with some off the wall stuff, but you'll enjoy it if you give it a chance. Which I doubt you did. First off, the video is lovely. It's set in the 60s and I find it hilarious. It took some creative thinking on his part to do that and he should be congratulated. That song may not fall under your stereotype of hip-hop simply because he doesn't rap, but I see it as a talented hip-hop artist being innovative and taking hip hop further. Lauryn Hill sings on her Miseducation album, but I would consider it a hip hop classic, rather than R&B. And Biggie's "Player Hater" is definitely a HIP-HOP classic. The other Outkast song is "The Way You Move" and if you don't like that song, I don't know what to tell you. The beat is tight, the rapping is tight, the hook is tight... if you don't like that song you just don't like Outkast and you might as well stop forcing yourself to try and see why everyone else does. Of course, you do refer to them as "clowns" whose songs are "BS" but if everyone likes them, wouldn't that make YOU a "clown" whose opinion is "BS???" Just a though...

Clothes have nothing to do with what makes hip hop. Rocawear and Sean John are clothes fashioned out of hip hop, true, but they're not much different from Hilfiger, Raulph Lauren, Nautica, etc. They don't make hip hop because the clothes worn by Run DMC in the 80s resemble nothing Jada and Jay wear, but they are all hip hop styles that changed with the times. And since you even admit that you'd like Pac and Jada if they wore the same clothes as Andre 3000, then you admit that the clothing is irrelvant. Of course, your point that you wouldn't like Pac or Jada if they RAPPED like Outkast, while amusing, was a redundant understatement. Kind of like the term "redundant understatement..."

I'll tell you now that you can't make a case for the NFL's best player, because there's no such player. At least not one with a reasonable argument. There's too many elements that go into winning football and no one player can be part of more than 50% of those elements. I'm warnin you, young, don't bring that argument up in here, up in here...

And while we're on football, what's up with Rush Limbaugh's bogus comments on McNabb? Of all the black QBs he picked, he chooses McNabb? Please! I agree that the Eagles had most of their success due to their defense, which is why they won with Detmer and Feely. But McNabb is a raw quarterback who can make plays with his arm and leg. I think his assessment (which if you didn't know, was that McNabb isn't really that good, but the media wants a black quarterback to succeed so they give McNabb credit for the Eagles' success when it's really only the defense) was legitimate, but there was no need to bring up McNabb's race. The media's desire to see a black quarterback succeed is some nonsense. About as much nonsense that the Redskins are the class of the NFC East. Those gays.

I'm out like Rush Limbaugh. Peace!

"Girl, you need to shake it off!" - P. Diddy

And about Busta... When you mentioned that Pass the C was about nonsense, I laughed and totally agreed with you. That song's lyrical value is trash times 3 million. If them ain't the two non rappinest, same ole hook singinist niggas in rap, I don't know who is. But doesn't Diddy write checks, not rhymes? Point being, them niggas lyrically suck, but that hook was tight and the song and video are hilarious. See, when you hear wack lyrics, you get disgusted. When I hear them, I laugh. I guess that's why me and other folks can enjoy Busta or Missy or 90% of DA SOUTH. Not everybody tries with their raps, which is why they can write them in 10 minutes. A lot of rappers/entertainers are going for tight beats and nice videos. And I can dig that as long as I am entertained or amused. That Pass the C video is hilarious. Monique as Della Reese in Harlem Nights had me rollin. I'm 90% sure you've seen Harlem Nights and find it funny when Eddie Murphy and Della Reese were fightin ("Oh you wanna hit people with garbage cans...") and that part in the video was tight. So in short, the son's lyrical value is doo doo, but IMHO the video was good and the beat is straight.

What's folks take on the Clipse? I hated the Grindin beat, but I kind of feel some of their stuff after that. Hell, Malice can almost pass as a poor man's Jadakiss on a lot of they stuff.

"Freestyle King my ass!" LOL!

I'm out like of bounds regarding Pat Ramsey's 2 pt. conversion pass to Lavern and Shirley Coleslaw. Peace!

Peep this, Jack. Football is a game of inches and luck is a huge part of it, if you believe in luck. But every game has some aspect of how the ball bounced or how the wind was blowing during a given second. Yes the Skins got "lucky" on some plays, but don't say it as if that means thus they have no skills. Every football team is either lucky or unlucky on evrey Sunday they step out there or a number of plays. Just like a few years ago when the Titans went to the S Bowl and didn't get in the end zone by a simple inch. If one of the other plays on that drive would have gained an inch more than it did, them lucky bastards might have won, but they were unlucky that day. Yes, Pat Ramsey missed an easy target on Sunday. Cuz, ain't even played in 16 NFL games yet, he will make those kinds of mistakes. Honsetly, I didn't want him to start for us; I wanted a vet, but he has proved himself to me. So he'll make some bad plays because in my eyes he is almost a rookie, but in time those kinds of mistakes under presure will be gone. It's just like when you missed the shot for Ether and took an ugly L. You probably made that shot hundreds of times before, but some bammas crack under the presure, as you know firsthand. As for Rush Limbaugh's statement about McNabb, it just shows who Rush is. Cuz is a racist or close to it. If anybody else would have said it, maybe I could give them the benifit of the doubt, but I know this man's history. That statment about McNabb was nothing compared to what he has said in the past. And I agree with Hill that Rush should have just kept race out of it. But that's not who he is. I even heard, but have not confirmed yet, they he once said "Blacks are only 12% of the population, who cares what they think?" Also, I just read this book that talks about when he had a TV show. He said "The white House not only has a cat, but they have a dog too." And then they put a picture of Chelsy Clinton on the screen. ESPN should never have even hired him. Moving on, I explained why I think clothing is a part of hip-hop, if you disagree Hillis, that your right. Hip-hop to me is not just music; it's the way we talk, dress, etc. It's a culture, not just singing and rapping. I think videos and movies are a part of hip-hop, or can be called hip-hop. Speaking of videos, TO ME, it seems like you (Hill) give a song a free pass if the video makes you laugh. Yeah, I can laugh at Cam in pink in a video and them saying Dip Set X 100, but I'm not gonna turn around and say, "Oh it had me laughing, therefore it's a good song." And if Outkast's lastest single is so great, why can't I judge it w/out hearing the other cds they've made? On one hand you say I need to listen to their earlier works, and if I wanted to see their growth, I agree with you; but on the other hand you tell me that "The way you Move" is just a tight song hands down, which it AIN'T. I already stated that I'm against the norm with not liking them, but even Outkast fans have said that that song is not good. Look, maybe we just like different music, actually, there is no "maybe" about it. If "Pass the C" AS A SONG can entertain you then that's on you. I dont like it. Just like I like girls with long hair, maybe you like em with short hair. I like basketball players who have moves like, AI, Kobe and Jordan, maybe you like less flashy players, with less skill who just dunk (WHOA). Nobodys right or wrong, we just have different taste. And no, I'm not a clown or a "BS" speaker just because I'm not an Outkast fan, just somebody with different taste. Clown. Yes, Harlem Nights did have me rolling; it came on two nights ago as a matter of fact and I was laughing. Puff and Busta's video was funny the first few times, but afterwards, the terrible lyrics just overshadowed the small humor. Lauryn Hill to me is hip hop but she has rap songs on her cd and R&B songs on there. I'm not going to just say since there are hip-hop songs on there , then EVERY song on there is hip-hop. ANd she did a video that looked like it was set in the 60's too, what's your point? And I don't recall typing "I can't see what Andre 3000 has done for hip hop" but I must admit it sounds just like something I would say. But since I can't find it, would you please show me? I really did want to finally get to TO and the former best player, that's right I'ma bring it. I gotta get back to work, maybe next time.

"Head down, pussy poppin on a handstand..." - Mystikal

Qoolout, again, I accept your challenge:

"Lastly, S Clover, if Dre from Outkast does have something to do with hip-hop I'm missin' it, but hip-hop embraces him for some reason." - QS on 12/30/03

I may have mixed up the words but I kept the gist of what you were saying. Now, I wanna know what Outkast fans you know that said "The Way You Move" wasn't tight! What, one Kast fan didn't like it so you embellished it to be "fans?" Cause all the fans I know - i.e. at least 10 - like it a lot. And I know more than 10 people in general like it. The song is good - maybe YOU don't like it, or 2 other people you know, but the song is tight. Second, your skill of making things seem a certain way don't work on me cause I see what you're doing. You can explain why you think clothes are a part of hip hop all you want; you're missing my point (or pretending to in order to change the subject). My point was only that Andre 3000's clothes have no bearing on why he is or isn't hip hop or if his music is or isn't tight. Now, you can ramble on and on about Sean John and FUBU and whatever til the proverbial cows come home. But your smokescreen is futile. My point was clothes don't determine if a rapper is tight - i.e. you'd like Pac or Jada in Andre 3000's clothes. In fact, you'd probably go out and buy some then! Or probably not...

Dude, I ain't tryin to hear your contradictory self talk about my judgement of music. Supposedly a song has to have a point to entertain you but you're a huge Jadakiss fan - Mr. Absolutely No Point himself. Well, actually, he has one point. D-Block is so tough thanks to Jada's ill flow and deftness with a gun. Now, I'm a Jadakiss fan because his metaphors and wordplay are ill, but let's not say he has a point. And then you liked Puffy and Scarface? Them niggas got no lyrical skills and no points! And you said "Pass the C" ain't good so therefore it isn't? Negro, please! Be honest and you know the majority of hip hop fans enjoyed the song and the video. I don't give a song a "free pass" if the video makes me laugh. I give it a free pass if I enjoy the production and Pass the C was one of the Neptunes' better beats. All I'm sayin is if you judge the song purely on lyrics then it's wack, but I don't think Puffy and Busta sat down and said, "These lyrics are tight" when they made the song. They probably said, "Let's bank off our star power and this tight Neptunes beat." And they did. Just because YOU expect a song to have ill lyrics EVERY TIME doesn't mean that the rest of hip hop fans have to rely on that narrow minded view! We can enjoy a beat, we can enjoy jokes, we can enjoy other things. And how is it that you can expand hip hop to find a way to diss Outkast, but throw that same expansion out for "Hey Ya?" If hip hop isn't just singing and rapping, why does the fact that Andre doesn't rap relevant? Well, it's not! Don't be bringing clothes and all this oter nonsense that doesn't have anything to do with music into a debate, but then convenienty forget it when that same nonsense works against you. "Hey Ya" is a hip hop song because it's a hip hop artist who made the song in the general style of hip hop. We'll have to agree to disagree about Lauryn's album. My judgement of music stays consistent with what I have previously said (i.e. a fan of production), while you supposedly need relevant points or tight lyrics or blah, blah, but don't like Kast, like Scarface, don't like Reasonable Doubt, like Puffy, like Jadakiss, don't like Ready to Die... Ahem. Where's the consistency?

In the future, bamma, if you're gonna try and bring up past events against me, make sure that you try not to do so solely based on memory because your memory is obviously not that good. I didn't miss the shot for Ether. I made it, but the dude on my team called a TO right before I hit it and we ain't have none; thus a technical preceded our ferocious L. Now, you on the other hand, have bowed out of tournaments with Team 3 and them other cats you lost with last summer fair and square. Ahem...

And another thing, you're right I don't care about flash. I like players like Shaq and Jordan because they dominate(d) when they want(ed) to and impose(d) their will at will. I like T-Mac because he carries a sorry team and constantly beats double teams. I don't care how. I like AI, not because he has a vicious cross or a nice J, but because he's 150 lbs, takes a beating when he scores 25 points against bigger, stronger giants and still gets back and plays ferocious D. I like versatile players like KG, Dirk, or Sheed because they have outside skills and a tough inside presence. You just like guards.

If you're not a clown with a BS opinion, just someone with different taste, then Outkast aren't clowns making BS - which you have referred to them as. They just have different taste.

Stop with this "best NFL player" nonsense.

Luda's new album came out. Well, I like it. Am I the only one? Probably not. Am I th only one in this thread? Probably.

Is this board dying again?

I'm out like all them folks that was just here a couple days ago. Peace!

Bamma please. I never said cuz can't dress therefore, he can't rap. I said cuz can't dress. In addition to not being able to dress, or able to dress well, cuz can't rap. See, I'm not saying his dressing is messing up his flow; I'm saying he can't do either one...period. And since we are on the "don't gimme that" stuff, then don't gimme that about you mixed up the words. I knew I didn't say he wasn't hip-hop, because every hip hop head I know (except moi) likes Kast. And just because youngin is a so called "rapper" that doesn't make "Hey Ya" hip hop. That just doesn't make sense. So if you heard an intsrumental and then you heard Luther sing to that same track, and then you discovered that Pac made the track, is it therefore hip-hop? Hold up, forget that point because I already know how you'll twist it. Let's just say Pac went to Spain and he recorded and performed in an Opera... he played the fat lady at the end... who sings. Is that hip-hop? You can't pigeon hold a person just because of what they made before or because they mainly rap. By that STUPID logic all of Will Smith's movies would be filed under "comedy." And are you saying that every track on The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill is hip-hop? Even thought she sings on a lot of them? And I never said I didn't like anything about RD or Ready to Die. As a whole album, no they aren't my favs. Of couse I love Juicy and a few others. What's inconsistent about that? I never said a song had to have tight lyrics for me to like it, so it seems like you are the one with memory problems. I said it has to have a point. Not a great point, not a moral to the story. I just have to be able to say "Okay, this song is about X, Y and Z." Now, with back of the bus, I can't do that. Yes tight lyrics help, but that's not my sole factor in judging music. And Puff's first CD was FLAMES. There were plently of songs with points, what are you talking about? And I liked Scarface back in the day when he made song like, Jesse James, Mind Playing Tricks On Me, I'm Dead, I feel ya. Go review your history, Face used to get deep on a brother. Jada does form time to time, I'll grant you that most of the time Kiss is just flowing, but name me one song (post Bad Boy) they he kicked that wasn't about anything. Like Pass the C. And most people I know DID dislike that garbo song. And if two fans don't like "The way you Move" then, hey two means FANS, with an S. And for the last time, Hip-Hop ain't just music. It's slang, dances and aw whole lot of other stuff.

Lastly, When Deion was with ATL and maybe for the year when San Fran won it all, he IN MY EYES, was the best player. He shut down his side onf the field as a back. He returned Punts and kickoffs ( I think his yardage record in ATL still stands) and cuz played wideout, and was better than any of the other wideouts. And If you recall, whenever the falcons got a pick, WHENEVER, they would pitch it around until they got the ball to him. On offense you knew he was getting it and they still could not stop it, kinda like Randy. Dag I gotta go

"Yeah, bitch, I got my Now and Later gators on, I'm bout to show you how my pimp hand is way strong..." - Snoop Dogg

See, that quote was not picked at random. I'm bout to show folks that my debate skills are way strong. Minus the Now and Later gators...

For the life of me, I can't figure out why you keep implying that I said that you said Outkast wasn't hip hop (he said she said we sad they said). What do you mean you knew you didn't say it?! I told you that you didn't say it! TWICE!!! Did you not gather that I was agreeing with you? Is this some slick Qoolout debate trick? I thought I was clear about the issue, but honestly, I think it IS some slick Qoolout debate trick.

"I can't really define hip hop but I know it's based on not just music and rap, but on the way we/they talk and yes even dress. That's why I dissed those so called clothes that cuz from Kast wears. But hey, maybe that bamma dressing is a part of hip hop..." - QS on 10/1/03

Now, I don't have the luxury of actually discussing what you meant or may have meant from that statement in real time so I could only try and find the meaning based on the context clues. Based on those
clues, it seemed TO ME that you were implying that clothes could be a deciding factor on whether or not one is hip hop. I disagree. Now, it seems like maybe you were dissing their clothes and that was it. But like I said, the context clues point to something different. And if you're HONEST with yourself, you can reread that paragraph and realize that 9 out of 10 people would make the same connection, especially with how you have been dissing Outkast in general.

Again, it looks like we agree on something. Will Smith has done a lot of comedy, but not all movies he has been in are comedies. And if Pac went to Spain and did an opera, it wouldn't be hip hop. Now, if Beyonce did it, it would be a hip hopera... LMAO!!! Anyway, I said nothing REMOTELY close to that STUPID logic. All I said was that "Hey Ya" is a hip hop song. I said that it was a hip hop artist who did a song in the general style of hip hop. I compare Hey Ya to Biggie's Playa Hater. Big sings the whole time, but that is a classic HIP HOP song because he is not to be taken seriously for his singing, the subject is not to be taken in the context of R&B, and it was a hip hop artist bringing something new to hip hop. And TO ME, that's all "Hey Ya" is. A hip hop artist expanding on hip hop and doing a hip hop song. You said hip hop is more than "rapping and singing," but you try and dissmiss Hey Ya as not a hip hop song because "cuz doesn't even rap." So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not when it comes to Outkast, because you don't like them. That seems to be the direction of your argument if you ask me. I agree that hip hop isn't just music. It is slang, dances, and a whole lot of other stuff. I disagree with anyone who says clothes determine a hip hop artist or that certain clothes aren't hip hop just because he/she doesn't like said clothes.

Most people I know did like Pass the C, but that's irrelevant. I'd bet that the # of people who like is bigger than the # who disliked it, simply based on the airplay and billboard success.

I still think your best player argument is wrong, but at least you picked Deion. Deion definitely was a shut down corner with mad return skills, who could play wideout. But Deion was a good athlete so he could probably function as a 3rd option.However, Deion wasn't the only one who could do that. Plus Rice was in his prime (which is the one receiver he couldn't shut down), and so was Rod Woodson. Woodson was also as dangerous a return man as Deion. Deion was probably the better corner, but overall player? I don't know. Barry Sanders was also in his prime and he probably could have returned punts or kickoffs better. And even in mentioning all those players, I don't believe a strong enough argument can be made for Deion simply because in football there are too many different positions and skills to determine what makes who better. Deion was one of few who had the chance to play both ways, but most players in the league played both ways in their career, even if it was as far back as high school. I'd bet that Sanders could have been a good corner or Woodson could have been a good back, but in football there's no real need for someone to play both ways. Warren Sapp could probably play tight end, or offensive line, maybe even fullback. I hardly think Sapp is the best player in the league. Jevon Kearse or Derrick Brooks have the skills to do more than just play on defense. Brooks and Kearse could probably switch or even play in the secondary with their speed and strength. I don't think they're any better or worse than Sapp, just different. Unlike basketball, football has too many different positions and skill needs to say one skill is better than the other. Of course, since you're blinded by flash and Deion did play for the most overpaid, underachieving team that happened to be the Redskins, I see why that would fool you.

My memory is fine. Again, check yours.

"...look at Busa Bus. I'm not feeling him or Missy because of the actual words that are in the raps that they spit. It sounds like they just sat down and wrote the songs in like ten mintues and then it gets all kinds of radio play. That's why I hate his and her "raps." Seemingly, they took NO time in the "writing" part, and as a writer myself, that is what irks me the most." - QS on 10/1/03

So again, one can conclude from this statement, as well as your disdain for Outkast, that you DON'T just put an emphasis on simply the point. Of course, if that's not what you meant, you should work on explainin yourself better, Lucy!

I respect Scarface but his lyrical prowress is iffy. Go review YOUR history. And Jada rarely gets deep. And his songs do have a point. It's just the same exact point. D-Block this, ill flow that, I gotta gat, gun, glock, tec, mac, 9 milli, nina, hammer, biscuit, pistol, etc.

"I knew I didn't say he wasn't hip-hop..." lol Who are you trying to convince? Me? Or yourself?

I'm out like Lucille Ball. Peace!

You know I keep the fire closely/
Cause a clip will have you ass on one leg like the Heisman Trophy// --Ransom

I'm all that, & then some/
Short dark & Handsome/
Bust a nut inside your eye, to show you where I Come(CUM) from// --Phife (A Tribe Called Quest)

To be Hip-Hop, or not to be Hip-Hop... That is the question? Let me try to bring at least some clarity to this topic. Hip-Hop in its self is a spawned creation from R&B and other forms. It's no coincidence that even today with acts like Ja Rule, Lauren Hill, or Snoop. That barrier is jumped back and forth, from song to song. We could figure out some way to mesh music together, such as the examples Qool gave. Pretty much what I am saying, its really pointless to argue over categorization, cause one person will see it as Hip-Hop, another would see it as R&B. Besides that point, Hip-Hop isn't really a defining creation of its self. There is not a tried & true Hip-Hop sound. Think about it? You got all these damn categories now, Gangster, Hardcore, Acid (Yes Acid), R&B/Hip-Hop, Alt. Rap, Gospel Rap etc. Try to guess one of the first commercially successful rap songs?? Can't figure it out? It's a song called Rapture by Blonde, who was a well known 70/80's Pop group. The point is the barriers are unlimited, no matter which way you turn it. Hip-Hop embodies all music forms, there is no true Hip-Hop sound. Cypress Hill - Rock, Insane Clown Posse - Acid Rock, Lauren Hill - R&B/Hip-Hop, Eyedea - Alt. Rap, Atmosphere - Emotion Rap... I could go on for days, and I haven't even scratch the surface yet.

Moving on, to this sports thing. I agree with Hillis saying Miami is not the true #1, I don't think anyone would disagree with you. Not even myself being a Hurricane fan. With Gore out, and my boys FSU this week. It's not looking good at all. If they lose at FSU on Saturday, they not only get a L (Which kills a chance at the national championship). But they got Tennessee, I think November 8th. If they receive 2 L's this season that's gonna probably knock them out of the BCS Bowls, which means that top dollar money won't be going to the ACC next year. Nevertheless the season is shaping out to look like FSU vs. Oklahoma a rematch of the 2001 Orange Bowl, in the Sugar Bowl this year. I got my shotgun ready, loaded with my illegal hollow tip point, Rhino cop killer bullets ready to be fired at random on the Oklahoma Sooner football team as they enter the Louisiana Superdome... **Cough**But you didn't hear that from me**Cough** lol, just kidding.

Qool, you asked why ESPN hired Rush. Jimmy Johnson said it best... Controversy. They wanted him to say outrageous stuff such as that. You look at these news shows now. They mostly consist of these right wing conservative dick suckers to the republican party. and, since when has the republican party cared for black people, or better yet minorities for that matter. You don't have to answer that, cause we can all see what they are trying to do with Affirmative action. But anyways, back to Rush. I mean look at that whole set up, and it proves my point they was begging for attention. One White guy spiting opinions to two black guys??? LOL. That's about as colorful as this message board webpage... Black & White.

I'll get to that Clipse discussion later Hill.

Fast Shouts out to J-Dolomite, Macka, Qool, Hill, and all the newbies...What UP!

Hillis, I noticed you use a tactic which I'll simply refere to as lying. Let's get right to my examples. First of all, your debate skills aren't WAY strong. Secod, I never said that clothes are the deciding factor on how a brother spits. I see how you keep trying to twist up a statement I said a few days ago, but countless times since then I've stated that clothes are hip hop YES, but they do not determine the quality of a given rap. I understand you want to GIVE me that argument, but since your debate skills are way weak, I refuse to accept that position. I never said cuz can't flow because of his style of clothing. No matter what you post, you'll never be able to post me saying that, mainly because I never said it. If you think I implied it, well, I'm telling you that was not my intent; you misunderstood. Maybe I could have been clearer on the matter so I accept my fault too, but you misunderstood. And how do you know what 9 out of 10 people would say? As far as I know, you took no poll or survey. And you DID say something close to my Pac example about Spain. You said (not in these words) that "Hey Ya" was hip-hop simply because cuz from Outkast is hip-hop. And I believed and still do believe that YOU are pigeon holding him, but certainly we can agree to disagree on this small matter. To you it is hip-hop and to me it ain't. And what about it is hip-hop anyway, other than a "rapper” performs it and rappers are in the video? If I heard it on the radio and ain't know who it was, how would you or I know that it was hip-hop? You are telling me that you disagree with a certain person if they say "XYZ" about hip-hop, and I do too, but you say it as if I said these statements. Please don't try to take "clues" or find the hidden meaning in my post because you clearly are finding things within my sentences that I never said. Like since I don't like Kast “Hey Ya” ain't hip-hop. I never said that; I said both of those factors separately but not together, and when you put them together, it has a different meaning. Again, I'll go back to the poll you didn't take (as far as I know) about your 9 out of 10 people. You can't tell me that there are more people who liked "Pass the C" then those who ain't like it because of radio play (you took know poll). If I did go by that, I would tell you that MOST of the radio stations in the world don't even play hip-hop. Thus, by your logic and by the truth, most people in the world never even heard “Pass the C”; and I say lucky them! Now back to you twisting up words and finding hidden meanings THAT AREN'T REALLY THERE. I said Deion was the best player back then. I never said with the Skins. But you said I was blinded by the flash of Deion and that I picked him as the best because he played for my hometown. I know he wasn't that great once we got him, which is why I didn’t mention that. And I didn't pick him solely because he played both sides of the ball, but because he was great at it. Yeah anybody CAN play both ways, but he was dangerous at wideout and as a returner. Sapp ain't dangerous at TE. And Kordell played wideout and QB, but was never really that dangerous at WR but Deion was...in his prime of course. He was a threat at every position he played in the NFL. Lastly, I missed your entire point about my Missy statement. Yes, I hate her raps because she seems like she only took ten minutes to write them, and on top of that there is no point, and I don’t like how it sounds. So what? You are telling me Jada gets deep rarely, but why? I said so myself. If a person has a point in their song then I'll give them a chance. Don't try to hate on J A dub because I don't like Kast. Even if he does have the same point, are you forgetting that he still has a point, Jack? H-Wood, how do you feel about Bill O'Reily?

"Swallow the hallow, make em digest the 50 calibur, your future's not looking so good, tomorrow's not on your calender..." - Ludacris

Oh so you wanna call people liars, huh? You done accused me of stealin before, but the only thing I'm stealin today is yo face... in relation to debate...

First of all, what debate skills have you exhibited? Other than rambling on about things I didn't even say, you've done nothing but... well... ramble on about things I didn't even say! Are you stuck on stupid? I never said you said Outkast wasn't hip hop. I cannot stress that enough and I don't know why you keep defending yourself about that. I never said you judged Outkast off of their clothes. I cannot stress that enough. I said that it seems like you judged them off the two songs you may have heard on the radio and their clothing, because you mentioned their clothing when you said you didn't like them. Key word being "seems." If you don't know what it means, then I suggest you grab a dictionary. I have never accused you of anything or come out and said "You said XYZ." You can defend yourself about all these statements you may think I have said, but unlike me, you have not gone back and quoted me ONCE! If I said all this blah, blah, blah, go find it and re post it. Prove yourself!Otherwise, realize that your debate skills, or lack thereof, have left you grabbing at absolutely nothing!

Second, the two strongest "points" are arguably against the WEAKEST topics! You gonna question whether or not I did a hypothetical poll?! Are you serious?! I'm gonna concede that this is stupid to go back and forth about, but I will humor you. How do you know I didn't take a poll? How do you know that I didn't get 100 random people to review the thread and that 90 of them agreed with my assessment of your statement? The other "point" was that you defended not picking Deion because he played for the Skinnies. Nigga, I knew that! I was joking! So you're right, there's no way Deion being in DC influenced you... bamma.

Third, let's go back to your wack ass argument. Or jibberish. You ramble on and say "Again, I'll go back to the poll you didn't take (as far as I know) about your 9 out of 10 people. You can't tell me that there are more people who liked "Pass the C" then those who ain't like it because of radio play (you took know poll). If I did go by that, I would tell you that MOST of the radio stations in the world don't even play hip-hop. Thus, by your logic and by the truth, most people in the world never even heard “Pass the C”; and I say lucky them!" - QS on 10/9/03... I'm gonna be real honest; while I was amused, I have no idea where you were going with that. I don't see how it enhances or hurts your argument, and I also fail to see how it is relevant to anything we have said. If they haven't heard it, how can that point/fact hurt me and help you or vice versa? Please. Explain.

Fourth, I did not say you believe Hey Ya is not hip hop because you don't like Outkast. Honestly, All I pointed out is that you said hip hop is more than singing and rapping. You did say that. I won't post it yet, but you did say that. You also said that Hey Ya is not a hip hop song because "cuz does not rap." You said that. I put it in quotes because I am quoting you and you did say that. So all I'm asking is WHY you feel justified in making the two contradictory statements? If you don't feel Hey Ya is hip hop then that's fine. But "cuz does not rap" is not going to be a valid response when you just said "hip hop is more than just singing and rapping." And Qoolout, you will never find anything I posted that is even remotely close to me saying that Hey Ya is hip hop simply because it was done by a hip hop artist. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever find that... ok?

Finally, I am also telling you that you are absolutely wrong when you say that Missy and Busta's songs have no point. "Pass the C" has no point. "Work It" has no point. But you are just plain wrong if you say Missy and Busta never have a point. You're still wrong if you say they rarely have a point. They may not be deep points, but their points aren't any less vague and cliched than J to the Mwa, Kiss of Death, D-Block, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I am not hating on Jadakiss. I couldn't care less if Jadakiss never had a point again in another song. As long as he keeps spittin them ill (just like Will was) metaphors and using exceptional wordplay, I'll remain a fan.

Now, I'm not gonna say that your Deion argument was eack, but I still disagree. I'll admit I was impressed that you thought of Primetime because I couldn't think of anyone you could have made a good case for other than maybe Vick or even Derrick Brooks. Hell, a valid case could be made for ya boy Champ Bailey. I also disagree that you said Sapp ain't dangerous at TE. Hopefully you "meant" that Sapp isn't a serious pass catching threat. I'm not saying that's what you meant so don't start rambling about what you didn't say about Sapp. All I'm saying is that Sapp is dangerous at TE in blocking situations and possibly 4-6 yd pass routes. His strength, tenacity, and aligity plus his knowledge from the defensive side would probably make him one of the best, if not the best, blocking tight end in football. So Sapp culd be dangerous at TE if used correctly. I mean, I ain't tryin to watch slow ass Sapp run no 20 minute 10 yard out. I will watch him score and laugh while he bounces like Beyonce. Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, oh, no, no... lol

In all this razzle dazzle, why aren't we discussin the Kobe case? Do y'all think he did it? Or is he is innocent? Is it right we still don't officially know her name. Will he get convicted? Will th Lakers do the damn thing? We shall see...

I'm out like that girl's name from the Kobe case still isn't. Peace!

See, Hill, in your last post you said (and I quote bamma) "I (Hillis) said that it seems like you judged them off the two songs you may have heard on the radio and their clothing, because you mentioned their clothing when you said you didn't like them." Now maybe it did seem that way, I don't know, but you also said "Based on those clues, it seemed TO ME that you were implying that clothes could be a deciding factor on whether or not one is hip hop." 1st of all there are your quotes, you asked for them and you got em, happy? Second of all, there it is in black and white, it SEEMED to you that I used clothing when I said I didn't like their flow. What I am trying to convey is you were wrong! Yes, to you it seemed like I did "such and such." But you were wrong. It SEEMED like Jennifer Harris, liked me in fifth grade and wanted to "go with me" but I was wrong, as were you, Jack. And you did accuse me of something. You accused me of being inconsistent. See you said "I have never accused you of anything..." however you DID accuse me of something. I could understand if you DIDN'T accuse me of being inconsistent, but you actually did. And the nail in the coffin is on Oct. 1, 2003 you rambled about Missy and your beloved Andre' 3000. It was clear that this post was a response to my post. In that post you said "I find it hard to accept that Outkast is not hip hop." So if you are honest with yourself you'll go admit that that was directed at me (me that's who). So I came back with I never said Outkast wasn't hip-hop. Then you came back with "Ok, you didn't say that Outkast isn't hip-hop." So right there, it seemed like we were on the same page and it SEEMED like you knew why I sat at the PC and typed "I never said OK wasn't hip-hop." But lately, you have been acting like you have no idea why I was defending myself about that. Now do you see; now do you get it? These clowns. Oh yeah, you also accused me of having a memory that wasn't good. When in actuality I remembered all of Pac's lines in Juice and I remembered all of my lines for the Black History play, and I HAD THE MOST LINES, bamma. And you said "I just like guards." I guess you didn't know that I was a fan of Rodman when he played (not just because he could shut down Shaq; that's right, he got all up in his head and had that bamma shook). Also, I don't know that you didn't take a poll. Maybe you did, but when I spoke on this alleged poll, I stated that to my knowledge you didn't take a poll, but that I didn't know and maybe you did. And if you did get 100 random people to view this thread, why don't you go get them again and tell them idiots to actually post since they took the time to read and be polled? As far as "Pass the C" I understand you were loss and I respect that; allow me to explain. You said that because of airplay and billboard success you'd bet that the # of people who liked (Pass the C)
was bigger than the # who disliked it. Since most stations don't play hip-hop we can assume that most people don't like hip-hop. You think they play hip-hop in Iraq, Egypt and Japan? Only a small amount of stations in the world actually air hip-hop. If they liked it in Japan, trust it would be playing in Japan. So even if every hip-hop lover liked it, we would still be out numbered by the rest of the world...because most of the world doesn't listen to hip-hop. Thus it hurts your point that more people liked it. For the record, I know plenty of people who dislike Busta and hate Puff. So it's not hard for them to say "Pass the C" sucks, which it does. You speak on it as if that was one of the best songs ever. Moving on, on Oct. 8, 2003 you posted the following: "You said hip hop is more than "rapping and singing," but you try and dismiss Hey Ya as not a hip hop song because "cuz doesn't even rap." So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not when it comes to Outkast, because you don't like them."
But in your last post you had the audacity to type, "Fourth, I did not say you believe Hey Ya is not hip hop because you don't like Outkast." But you did. Didn't you? Am I reading it wrong? And I don't feel that I was being contradictory. In fact, you misquoted me. Do you work at the New York Times? I didn't say Hey Ya is not a hip- hop song because cuz does not rap. I said that the song was not hip-hop and then in another totally completely DIFFERENT sentence I said Cuz does not rap. I see I'm not the only person having memory problems. I asked you nicely, I even used the word "please." I said don't put my statements together. Hillis, when you put two statements together you run the risk of changing the authors intent. I was saying that song ain't hip-hop...furthermore, cuz doesn't even rap. And yes I said hip-hop is more than rapping and singing but I was not saying something had to contain EVERY SINGLE aspect of hip (i e singing, rapping, dancing, slang, clothing, etc.) to be deemed hip-hop. Why do you insist on twisting up my words? Please do not do this. As for Missy and Busta, I'm sticking by what I said. Them bammas might have points but not often. If they do sometimes, then I stand corrected, but I can't believe that they have points more times than not. With songs like Make it Clap, Baby Give it to me and I'll give it to you, Work it, I can't Stand the Rain and Pass the C, I can't believe it. Remember Missy's part in Ladies night? That sums up her style to me. Maybe you are going by albums which is fair, but I know their radio play songs are pretty pointless. And Jada's points are way more understandable than them clowns. And about your Puff writing checks line...Jada once spat in a Bad Boy diss, I don't care how many checks you wrote/ I just wanna know how you gonna dance when your neck get broke, LOL. Thanks for the props on my Deion argument; you surprised me (what did you mean with "eack?"). And I was thinking about Champ B (he's the best on the team), but they hardly ever put him anywhere other than CB, so I knew you would probably tear him up. To me Sapp is not a real threat at TE. I feel what you said about him, but to be a TE you have to be able to catch which he probably could do, but you need a little more speed then he has. I mean he could do it, but it's a difference in being able to do it and being dangerous. It's like comparing Brain Mitch to Steve McNair. Both can run and both can throw, but B Mitch is not a threat. So I agree he can do it, but disagree that he is a serious worry to the defense. Oh yeah, I bet he won't be lining up as TE against LaVar or running thru our warm-up drills. Moving on, yes an actual newspaper printed the girl's name and showed her picture (in the Kobe case). To say the least, this was wrong. Back in the day, the alleged victim's ID would have been protected like the secret service protects George B. There are close to zero standards in journalism today. The pressed judge in the case should have never let cameras be in the court room. I guess cuz was trying to make sure he got a book deal out of it. I wonder how he would feel if his daughter cried rape and somebody wanted to let cameras in the courtroom. I won't say if he did it or not, because I don't know and the truth is we will never ever know. No matter what happens in court we will never know if Kobe took it or if she gave it. A lot of peeps make the mistake of thinking we will know the truth when we hear "guilty" or "not guilty," but we won't. We never will.

I had to start a new paragraph for this section. Save the best for last. Hillis, do you remember when you typed "Qoolout, you will never find anything I posted that is even remotely close to me saying that Hey Ya is hip hop simply because it was done by a hip hop artist. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever find that... ok?"? I was shocked, stunned and surprised. I was like, maybe I am seriously having memory problems because I could have sworn you said something at least remotely close to that. So I was all set to say my bad and admit that you were correct, when I scrolled up to Oct 8, 2003 once again. Dag, you were talking some nonsense on that day. On that day you posted "Hey Ya" is a hip hop song because it's a hip hop artist who made the song in the general style of hip hop. Okay, I'm not even gonna call you a lair for that. I'ma go ahead and say you made a mistake. Surly you either didn't mean to type this or you had forgotten you typed it. But the sad truth is YOU typed it. I guess never came sooner than you realized. I am literally jumping up and down like a six year old on Christmas Eve awaiting your reply to this disdainful news. I mean if you would have never said this nonsense then you'd have a point, but for some reason you did. You really did say it. Checkmate. I'm out like your creditability.

"Fuck it, act stupid and jump in the damn pool..." - Busta Rhymes

Look at this bamma callin checkmate when my king is safely guarded by my rook and my bishop while my queen is wrecking shop on his pawns and knights! I bet he thinks football games are over in the 3rd quarter... bamma.

I'll give you your props. You almost had me. Almost. You came closer than Best or Rob or any poor sap who had the nerve to challenge me in a debate of facts and not opinion. But you still fail miserably. This is what I said:

"You said hip hop is more than "rapping and singing," but you try and dismiss Hey Ya as not a hip hop song because "cuz doesn't even rap." So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not when it comes to Outkast, because you don't like them. That seems to be the direction of your argument if you ask me." - H3K on 10/8/03

Hold up! It looks like you forgot to post the sentence following it! I said that seems to be your argument! Key word being "seems!" You tried real hard and thought I wouldn't notice, but dude, I'm just too nice with my debate skills. So again, I did NOT accuse you of anything. I just told you how it looked to me. Honestly, I DO think that the only reason you say Hey Ya isn't hip hop is because you don't like Outkast. Now, if I'm wrong about what it seems like, fine. But I'm not saying that I have found irrefutable evidence to any effect so you are wrong. Absolutely wrong. Again. Honestly, I DO think that the only reason you say Hey Ya isn't hip hop is because you don't like Outkast. And if you say that's not true, I won't believe you. So now, I AM accusing you of only saying Hey Ya isn't hip hop simply because you don't like Outkast. The accusation is now official. Based on your posts, I can't see how it's any other way! I may be wrong, but I don't believe I am. Any explanation you give, I won't believe, simply based on your other posts. But next time you post something of mine, make sure you don't try and be slick and leave out a crucial part to help your vicious lies. Vicious, vicious lies...

I'm bout to break numerous copyright laws here, but FUCK OUTTA HERE with this HORRIBLE ass recant of why you said Hey Ya ain't hip hop!!! What in the hell??? Dude, that was plain pathetic! So let me get this straight. You saying Hey Ya ain't hip hop followed directly by cuz does not rap and cuz does not spit one verse are not all directly connected??? LMAO! Ok, fine. I'll accept it. So you say Hey Ya ain't hip hop, and that's it? No reason? No points? No facts? All you could muster up was "Hey Ya is not hip hop?" LMAO! That's even worse! This is another reason why I am now officially accusing you of saying Hey Ya ain't hip hop because you don't like Kast! What makes you think that you can get away with calling a song not hip hop and have absolutely no valid reason for doing so? You're joking, right?! I know you're trying to save yourself for DOUBLE TALKIN about Kast, but that was a weak move! So can you explain why Hey Ya isn't hip hop to you? Because just sayin Hey Ya ain't hip hop isn't gonna cut it! Maybe in the Foolout School for Wack Ass Debate Tactics that garbage flies with an A+, but in real debate you have to have something to back up your statements - no matter how INCORRECT they are... lol I guess in the Foolout School for Incoherent Babble one could say, "I don't like Asians. Asians killed my parents." and then later say, "Oh, the fact that they killed my parents is not why I don't like Asians!" LMAO! As a journalism/english/clown major you're supposed to know better than to write in a manner that is vague and ambiguous! If I took another one of my famous polls, I bet at first glance 10 out of 10 people would make the same conclusion about your two "different" sentences! lol

The people in my polls don't post because they're too busy laughing at your terrible debate skills... lol

Again, your strongest "point" comes on the weakest topic. You're claiming that most of the world doesn't like hip hop, so therefore most of the world doesn't like Pass the C. Fine. I thought it was obvious that I was talking within the scope of hip hop fans, but I guess you either missed that, or in some terrible attempt at saving face are trying to discredit the popularity of Pass the C. Fine. So by your STUPID logic, the majority of the world doesn't listen to Jadakiss, so we can assume they don't like Jadakiss, so therefore it can be used to say he is a wack rapper, even though the majority of HIP HOP fans feel Jadakiss. And for for the record, your current explanation doesn't follow along with your original statement. Your original statement was that the majority of the world hasn't heard Pass the C. Your recent statement is that the majority of the world doesn't hear hip hop, so they must not like it, so they must not like Pass the C (again, STUPID logic). Whether or not they do or do not play hip hop in Iraq, Egypt, Japan, etc. if they haven't heard the song, your point is invalid. If they haven't heard it, how can you say they don't like it??? You can ASSume all you want that they don't like hip hop, but your "point" doesn't help your case. In fact, it's stupid! Remember the classic "Green Eggs and Ham?" Homeboy said he didn't like green eggs and ham, but had actually never tried them. But when he did try them, he liked them. Or ever see Pulp Fiction? Samuel L said, "A sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know cause I'd never eat the filthy muthafucka." So until they've actually heard Pass the C, you cannot say they don't like it.

Ok, Qoolout, I know you like to flatter yourself, but you need to realize that you were NOT the only one who dissed Outkast. Someone else dissed them, too. Did you ever think I was looking for someone else's opinion other than yours? Maybe you only read my posts, and if so, then I'm flattered. But please don't think that your posts are the only one I read and respond to. When I was asking about hip hop, I was responding to you, Trife, H*WOOD, Sterling Clover, and really, just about a rap topic in general. And yeah, I responded to you when you said that you never said Outkast wasn't hip hop. I agree and still agree that you never said that. I then proceeeded to talk about a totally different statement of yours. I apologize if you felt the need to defend yourself on not saying Outkast isn't hip hop, but it was unnecessary because I NEVER tried to make that point against you specifically.

You're still wrong about Missy and Busta. Posting 5 songs when they've made 4 or 5 albums each is not gonna cut it like your wack ass Hey Ya isn't hip hop statement. "Eack" is a cross between weak and wack - without the "w"... And yeah, you can like Rodman, but I made that guard statement cause you made that little statement about me only likin folks with no skill that can only dunk. You ain't slick, negro...

Regarding the Kobe case, of course we would feel different if that were our daughter/sister/mother or anyone in our family. But what if Kobe was our brother/father/son? How is it fair that this girl can anonymously drag Kobe's name through the mud, and we still don't know if he's guilty? I'm not saying she's lying, but if you're in Kobe's family, you probably believe him, so you probably don't think it's fair that she can remain anonymous since she is over 18. I tend to agree. If you're going to make a claim against someone that could ruin his/her career, marriage, and put him/her in jail for life, you shouldn't be able to hide because you're the alleged victim. Now, I also agree that if it's supposed to be kept anonymous that a paper that prints her name should be banned or whatever it is they do to newspapers for violating journalistic integrity. Of course, it is kind of funny that you feel that way when you have violated all types of journalistic integrity in your debate against me... lol

I'll save the best for last, too. I don't know why you're anticipating my reply like a 6 year old on Christmas Eve! You should be running like a 6 year old from the Boogie Man. Like I said, and still say, I never said anything REMOTELY close to Hey Ya is hip hop simply because it's by a hip hop artist. I said, and still say, Hey Ya is hip hop because it was done by a hip hop artist in the general style of hip hop. And I went on to explain this by comparing it to Biggie's Playa Hater. You keep conveniently ignoring this comparison, probably because you know I'm right. Just like I agreed that if Pac sang in the opera, it wouldn't be hip hop simply because Pac is a hip hop artist, it would be an opera. But if Pac did a song about ridin on Bad Boy and he sang the whole time and his singing was bad, but the beat was a hip hop beat and you knew Pac was having fun and not taking his singing serious, THEN that song would be hip hop. I'll tell you now that being a hip hop artist does not presuppose (is that word too big?) that a song by that artist is hip hop, BUT it can be part of a reason why it is hip hop. Key phrase: "can be part." As in, not the entire reason, but part. Part! (is that word too big?) Usually, if Jay-Z, Nas, 2Pac, BIG, Snoop, Eminem, Outkast, Ludacris, Scarface, Jadakiss, etc. come out with a song, it's usually hip hop. Usually! If Shania Twain and Faith Hill do songs, they're usually country. Usually! So if Shania came out with a song that followed along with the criteria that determine a country song, the fact that she is a country singer would serve to strengthen the argument that the song is country. Outkast being hip hop artists STRENGTHENS my argument that Hey Ya is hip hop. STRENGTHENS! It is NOT the whole argument or the base of my argument as I CLEARLY conveyed by my statement!

There's a song By Eazy-E and Dr. Dre called "Automobile." It is a hip hop classic. In this song, neither Dre nor Eazy rap. They do not spit one verse. They sing over a countryish beat. Still, it is by two hip hop artists made in the general style of hip hop. I doubt any country singer would ever claim the song in their genre. If you've never heard the song, then you may not be able to debate over the point. I challenge you to download it and listen to it, and then come up with an argument that it's not a hip hop song.

Now, you got your wish and I bet it's the proverbial bitter pill to swallow. You tried, but failed. Now, come back with some more nonsense so I can embarass you further... like Tampa Bay embarassed the Redskinnies. Bamma. Out like my credability... Negro, please!

I'm out like the Bucs over Wash(ed up)ington. Peace!

These bammas. I didn't forget to post any sentence. I posted what I needed to post and that's that. You claimed I dismissed Hey Ya because I don't like Outkast. Then in the following sentence you tell me what it seems. I guess you don't understand that in the first sentence you told me what I did. If you wanted to say it seems like I dismissed them than you should have said so. But you didn't. You can't insert "seems" in the pervious sentence just because you had it in the next, nor can you tell me that I didn't listen to Hey Ya with an open mind. I did, I just didn't like it. Honestly, I think you'd take a slug for them bammas, lol. Ever since I said I wasn't feeling them you've been trying (without success) to explain why I'm a clown and so on just because I'm not feelin them. Talking about they'd be insulted. Well, let them non dressin' dudes be insulted. The point is, I don't like Hey Ya because I listened to it and ain't like it; not because Outkast made it. Seriously, how can you even attempt to argue why I personally don't like it when I'm the only person in the whole wide world who would know first hand? Come on Hill, if you want to maintain any credit or respect you have to admit that I would know better than you and you are totally out of line to say or think otherwise. Moving on, I just told you one post ago that just because something SEEMS a certain way, that doesn't mean that I can't call it wrong. It seemed like I hated on the song because I hate Outkast, when I really just didn't like the song. You were wrong about how it seemed. The word "seem" doesn't give you a license to just pull stuff out of your rectum and then post it as fact and then be surprised when I tell you how I really feel. You were wrong. Admit it. Moving on, your paragraph about Asians was 99% pointless. As I stated before, please don't connect my statements. As a former English major (not Journalism dummy, that was the concentration. And while I'm on it, wish me luck; I'm in the process of trying to get into Howard for Grad School). I know that if you want to bring two points together you can use a semicolon (I just gave you an example). Scroll up, I didn't use one there. You can use a comma; scroll up, I didn't use one of those either. You can use "and" and plenty of other punctuation marks and conjunctions. However, I didn't use any of these. Why you ask? Because they were two different statements. I know how to spell the word "because" but I didn't want it right there. Do you get it yet? The song was not hip-hop to me. Then to further my point I was telling you that he doesn't even rap. You got no case here. Which is why I assume you started talking about Asians, made up polls, and Foolout School. Well, I certainly can't say you wasted your time as a wannabe lawyer. You utilized the law tactics quite well. I especially liked the one where you have no case, thus you start to talk about Foolout School, made up polls and Asians. What is it you call it? Is it a smokescreen? Well, for your smokescreen to actually work, it should be less obvious. Until then, don't quit your day (Internet) job...whatever that is. As for your other smokescreen, that one was a little better, in fact, maybe the one about "Pass the C" wasn't a smokescreen at all. I really don't know. But I do know my points were the same, both times I talked about it. I will admit that on the last time I gave a bit more detail, but that was only because you (YOU that's who) asked me to explain and I was being a good (I-Net) friend by granting your request. But once again, hatred for Jada doesn't really hurt my feelings. I'm not saying you said this, but just in case you didn't know...because it SEEMS like you think otherwise. If most of the world doesn't like him what does that have to do with the price of milk on Mars? My point about Iraq was/is it hurts you because you said more people like it then dislike it. Don't try to come at me with some "I was talking about hip-hop fans" nonsense. Naw cuz. If you can't admit when I got you, that's just plain sad. And I can say I don't like rat without ever trying it. So are you saying that you Hillis can't really say you don't like urine because you never gulped it? Well, if so I respect that, but ME Qoolout, can say I don't like urine. Moving on, you were addressing me cuz. Are you saying that you were speaking on my Missy and Busta and Outkast statements as plain as day, but then when you said, I find it hard to accept that they aren't hip-hop, you all of a sudden moved on to Trife or S Clover? I find that very hard to believe but if you say so, I guess I gotta just let you say it. Moving on, I feel you on why you said I only like guards, but recognize that you are still wrong. Okay? And that Dennis shut down your boy, kinda like your getting shut down, and I said Missy and Bus might have songs with points on their CDs. I said based on their radio songs and the 4 or 5 I named will cut it because they don't have points. Why would I say they don't have points and then turn around and name songs where they do speak about points? Moving on, I never looked at the Kobe case from the point you did. That is very interesting, but I still think the alleged victim should be protected. I feel that Kobe should have been protected too. Maybe we (the public) should have been kept in the dark about the case until it actually went to court, I don't know what the solution is. But I know if cameras weren't in the court to start with, him and the alleged victim would be a little better off then they are today. And don't say I violated all types of journalistic integrity without backing it up with facts, bamma. Once again, I feel you are gonna make a fine (crooked) lawyer one day, but don't bring that dishonesty to the board until you pass the bar. Moving on, as far as you saving the best for last, to me and to the fake people that I polled, you lied. 100 out of a 100 said you were a lying liar. How can you say you never said anything remotely to "Hey Ya" is hip-hop because a hip-hop artist did it, but then post the sentence where you said it. I don't know what to call this other than a LIE. Come on man, I went to church this morning, why you gotta be bringing all the falsehoods on a Sunday? Is that word too truthful for you? What was your "too big word insult" supposed to do? Take away from the fact that you said I'd never ever find a certain statement? How did you feel when I reminded you that you did indeed say such a statement and posted said statement? It ain't know lawyer or judge in the world that could argue "Hill ain't make that statement." Not Johnnie Cochran, not Ben Matlock, not Perry Mason and not even the lovely Clair Huxable. You said it, I found it, so you continue to deny it? Did it hurt when I found it? Were you mad, surrprised, disappointed, what? I really want to know. If you don't want share it with the board, email me and we can discuss it there. You might as well take your ball and go home. Don't be a baby about it and attack my journalistic skills, my vocabulary and my FIRE-FIED FACTS. And bamma I know about "Automobile;" I was just telling my real girl that my fake girl Beyonce' has a song on her cd that sounds like that. I guess you don't understand that I'm not falling for your trap. You are trying to get me to argue against "Playa Hater" Lyarun Hill, "Automobile" and every other rap where the rapper sings. 1st of all, my beef is with Hey Ya; it ain't hip-hop to me, but clearly you think it is. I accept that. But I won't accept an arguement you're trying to give me. And how do you know he wasn't being serious when he SUNG Hey Ya, you keep slippin that in there as if it were fact. So is Wyclef serious when he sings? Bamma take your argument back to the drawing board. You ain't never tell me how anybody would know that "Hey Ya" is hip-hop if they heard it on the radio and didn't know it was Outkast. I'm out like the truth is in your argument, Jack.

"Got me lookin so crazy right now..." - Qoolout/Beyonce

Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, oh-no no... That one big ass lump of garbo just keeps gettin more ridiculous than the previous. Let me break things down for you.

A) If you wanted "Hey Ya is not a hip hop song" and "Cuz does not rap" to be considered separate, why didn't you include "furthermore" the first time? Or "plus" or "and?" Like I said, you should know better than to write in a vague and ambiguous manner. Your big ass lump paragraph is already a journalistic no no, so how can you sit there and act like it's easy to tell when you decide you want to switch points or go in another direction? Are you sure you got your degree in English? I hope you didn't write your papers with that dumb ass format. Every sentence is not always independent of the following or preceding sentence. Sentences (that's plural) can be used TOGETHER to make up an argument. Otherwise, an argument would be one long run-on sentence, which you should know is a grammatical no no. Check your argument for Deion being the best player in the NFL in his prime. You used about 5 sentences for your argument. Are you seriously saying that every sentence in that paragraph is independent and that they don't actually all tie together? NEGRO PLEASE! "You're a joke!"

B) You're still on that idiotic Iraq, Japan, Egypt mess? Negro, that argument doesn't make sense. If they haven't heard the song, how do you know they don't like it?! I can't believe you're trying to defend that stupidity! And that urine analogy doesn't follow what you're saying about Pass the C. "I would never gulp urine" and "I don't like urine" are two different statements. Urine may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'll never know because I ain't gulpin it. But if you say, "I don't like urine" it means that you HAVE gulped it, and can make a valid assessment. So no, you can't say you don't like urine until you've gulped it. Just like green eggs and ham. You missed the point of that story, huh? Homeboy didn't say, "I do not want green eggs and ham." He said he didn't LIKE them. But he ate them and he DID like them. Homeboy was wrong! Just like you! Wrong, wrong, wrong.

C) If you make a statement that Busta and Missy's songs have no point, all I need to do is mention one song to disprove your statement. I don't care if you go out and post more songs. Gossip Folks by Missy has a point. Pussycat by Missy has a point. I Know What You Want by Busta has a point. Everything Remains Raw by Busta has a point. And I'm not trying to hurt you by "dissing" Jadakiss (did you really post that? lol). I'm just using Jadakiss examples because I know you like him and maybe if you look at the situation through Jadakiss, maybe you'll see the error of your ways. For example, Jadakiss has no point on the Made U Look (remix). Can I use that one verse and say Jadakiss never has a point? No. And you wouldn't let me. So just cause you find a couple of songs where Missy/Busta have no point doesn't make you right. You're just wrong. I'm sorry, but you are!

D) You're still a joke! Again, I'll post what I said. "Hey Ya is a hip hop song because it is done by a hip hop artist in the general style of hip hop." It's one sentence that is connected and you fail to see "in the general style of hip hop." I'll type it again because you seemed to have missed it the 5 other times it was posted. "Hey Ya is a hip hop song because it was done by a hip hop artist in the genral style of hip hop." Again, I want to remind you of the "in the general style of hip hop" part because you keep missing it for some odd reason (cough cough smokescreen cough cough lousy debate skills cough cough)... So again, I didn't say anything remotely close to Hey Ya is hip hop simply because it was done by a hip hop artist. Again, I challenge you to find where I said anything close to that.

E) Since you just came from church, let me drop a little religious knowledge on you. People who have followed your "seperatist sentence" logic have continually misinterpreted the Bible and tried to justify their beliefs, even when they were in direct conflict with other parts of the Bible. There are parts of the Bible which tell "slaves to honor and love their masters" which was used as proof to keep Blacks in slavery. Despite the fact that Jesus and all of the New Testament (as well as the beloved Constitution) would point otherwise, they used that one scripture as "proof."

"You said hip hop is more than "rapping and singing," but you try and dismiss Hey Ya as not a hip hop song because "cuz doesn't even rap." So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not when it comes to Outkast, because you don't like them. That seems to be the direction of your argument if you ask me." - H3K on 10/8/03

Those sentences are connected and if you're not bright enough to realize that then I refuse to debate on this topic anymore. Just because you think sentences are always separate doesn't mean it's a grammatical law. Because it is most certainly not! And if you still need further proof, I used "that" in the last sentence, which is a demonstrative pronoun clearly referring to the previous sentence. Bamma.

F) I don't want you to argue against "Automobile" or "Player Hater." I want you to argue against "Hey Ya" which you STILL have not done! Not once yet have you given any reason to why you think Hey Ya isn't hip hop (actually, you did but you're now trying to take it back cause you got caught DOUBLE TALKIN). As far as someone who doesn't know Outkast knowing Hey Ya is hip hop, they might not know! They may sense it through the beat or through Andre's style, but maybe not. Just like if someone didn't know Big or Eazy they might not know Player Hater or Automobile are hip hop and not R&B or country, respectively. But once they heard Outkast, BIG, or Eazy, then they would understand. Now, you go. Why isn't Hey Ya hip hop?

G) I also just thought of another reason your logic is moronic. You say, "Since most stations don't play hip-hop we can assume that most people don't like hip-hop." That's not true at all! Just because 97.3 or WASH might play country does not mean most/all/some/none of the listeners or DJs don't like hip hop. That just means they dedicated the station to country or people who are listening to it want to hear country! You mean to say that all the stations that don't play hip hop must automatically not like it?! HA! Again you are wrong and that's a stupid statement. Most TV stations do not air any form of athletic competition. So by your idiotic logic, that must mean the majority of the world does not enjoy some form of athletic competition! LMAO! You're a joke!

H) Quit flatterin yourself. Face it, you weren't the only one to diss Outkast. Don't feel bad I wasn't directly referring the statement to you. In fact, how bout I take a page from your book of smokescreens and say it was an independent statement that had NOTHING to do with anything anybody said about Outkast? I just happened to mention it at random... lol Nah, I won't get into that tangled web you weave... Go back and look. You weren't the only one who said it, so it wasn't directed specifically to you. Why would I need to be subtle? When have I EVER been subtle? Nigga, if I wanted to accuse you of saying Outkast isn't hip hop, I would have done it! And you know this, so quit actin like I was beatin around the bush with you. Bamma.

I) Last, just because you now say "Cuz does not rap" and "That song (Hey Ya) ain't a hip hop song" weren't related doesn't mean it's true. If I kill somebody, leave my prints on the murder weapon, do it in front of 5 witnesses, have a clear motive, and continuously lie about my alibi, just because I go in the court and plead not guilty doesn't mean I didn't kill dude or will be found innocent. Yeah, nigga, you know better than anybody what you meant. And you know you connected the two. You can lie about it now to save face all you want, "but you and I know what's goin on." You say "That song is not a hip hop song. Cuz does not rap. Nowhere in there does he spit one verse. If you ask me, it sounds more like an R&B joint." Cuz does not rap is surrounded by hip hop and R&B, but according to you, it's not all connected. (Yeah flippin right, lol). So if all that was unconnected, why in the world did you mention cuz does not rap? What was your point? Cuz does not rap, so what? Beyonce doesn't rap. Beyonce doesn't spit one verse. And? So? But you meant, furthermore he does not rap, huh? Why? Why did you mention that? Anybody who heard the song knows he doesn't rap, so you reiterating it is pointless! Anybody who hasn't heard it wouldn't say that mattered before they actually listened to it, so what were you trying to accomplish? You just decided to mention that cuz does not spit one verse, just to type it? LMAO! Get the FUCK OUTTA HERE! You clown...

Man, I'm tired of doin you like LaVar did McCardell, and the Bucs did Wash(ed up)ington! Can't you think of some valid argument without all the nonsense? lol

I'm out like Stephen Davis to a good team. Peace!

"If u aint thuggin or thumpin then go the hell home/The only clip on your hip holds a cellphone"--Lloyd Banks....

"I know I'm not the richest but I'm richer than ya'll/i'm like a young Wilt Chamberlain, all I do is fuck bitches and ball/"--Banks again.....

The Hurricanes are still undefeated...

"2-Pac is the illest" (Sorry Big)

It does NOT look good for Kobe right now....

My pimp hand IS TOO STRONG......

Roy Jones will beat tarver...

Finally Holyfield got his A-S-S whooped like no one has since Holyfield vs Bowe III

I'm picking Joppy to upset Hopkins (Because I dont like Hopkins)

Big ups to King James

What up fam? Will get back to ya later........

J-Dolo, I agree that Pac was the best. LOL Hillis, you had me laughing when you said how can I act like it's easy to tell when I switch points and when you quoted me with Beyonce'. Young, you can't indent on here. Well, at least I haven't been able to. When you start a new paragraph you supposed to indent, and since I couldn't I just went ahead and put it together. However, I usually type "Next" or Moving on" to let guys like you know, that I am MOVING ON to the next point. MOVING ON, I didn't need to put "furthermore" or "plus" or "and." I used the most basic thing there is. A PERIOD. That tells you right there that I am moving on to a new sentence. Surely you know this because I see you have utilized this period thing many times in your own post. So you say it was ambiguous? Yeah it was, but I have since cleared it up. Don't you understand? As the author I have the right to clear up the ambiguity. Once again you are trying to give me an argument. I STILL don't accept it. No means no cuz, dag. Now you are trying to get me to say something about my sentences concerning my Deion point of view. Yes, they were independent... if you look at them independently! But in my lump they all come together to state my case. Just like when I said, that song ain't hip-hop. Then I followed up with another NEW, DIFFERENT, SUPPORTING and yes INDEPENDENT sentence. Separate those sentences are like a finger, but you can bring them together (like a fist) and strike a mighty blow...as I did. NEXT, bamma I don't like urine. I don't need to tatse it, gulp it, nor sip it to know that. Yes, I guess it could taste like pumpkin pie, but does that mean that then I'd like it? Negative. I don't like urine ( and since it doesn't have whatever you make a pie with in it I know it doesn't taste like a pumkin pie). I said maybe YOU HILLIS can't say if you do or don't like urine. Again, I respect that, but I can say it about myself. So let's be clear here, "I do not like urine." You are undecided. If bammas in Egypt wanted hip-hop to be played there, then it would be played there. It ain't no law against it. I don't like songs about worshiping the devil. Do you? You probably don't. Have you ever heard a song about worshiping the devil? I have not, but I don't need to hear one to declare my dislike for it. Again I say checkmate! Moving on, I already said that Busta and Missy MIGHT have points. So you either overlooked that or you forgot it. But I also said that most of their RADIO songs are pointless. So all that nonsense you are talking is...nonsense. One more time, "most of their radio songs have no point." Get it? Got it? Good. And "Made You Look" does have a point. I saw Nas on MTV talking about himself, Jada and the bamma Luda doing the remix. Nas was asked what is the song about, and he answered the question. I guess you can take another shot at my memory here because I don't recall word for word what he said, but I do know for a fact he said, "I was just coming off the beef with Jay and everybody was watching me to see what I was going to do next. I had the industries attention so we dropped "Made you Look" because I had everybody lookin'." So bamma there was a point, you just missed it. If I can, I'll find the transcript of this interview and let you read it for yourself. Moving on, I still can't believe that you are gonna deny that you said something REMOTELY close to "Hey Ya" is hip-hop because a hip-hop artist did it. It ain't no getting out of this. Maybe if you wouldn't have used the word "remotely," you could put some kind of spin on it. But I got you right there. If it ain't exact at least it's remote. You said it and I showed you, Jack. End of story. Repeat it all you want. Next, you kind of lost me with your point about the bible, but Jesus would tell Blacks to love their slave master too. You think he wouldn't? But there are plenty of contradictory verses in the Good Book, maybe you can try another. And I didn't just come from church. That was yesterday; I stayed for Sunday School too, and I hardly ever stay for Sunday School. That was the 1st time in years. Moving on, you can refuse to debate with me all you want. That sounds like a good idea if you are gonna continue to say A) You didn't accuse me of anything B) You said nothing remotely close to Hey Ya is hip-hop because a hip-hop artist did it and C) You never said I dismissed Hey Ya because I don't like Outkast. Yes, your "that" is talking about the sentence for which it follows, but as I already told you, your "seems" is for that particular sentence, bamma. You can't say the seems applies to every sentence. If you wanted "seems" in there then you should have put it in there. There is no law or rule against how many times you can use "seems." Yes, I'm sure I have an English degree and I am also sure you can use "seems" all day long if you want. Apparently, you didn't want to use it that much. If you did want to use it more, I presume you would have used it more. I never said your sentences weren't connected, if I did my bad, but you still said "So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not with Outkast because you don't like them." And that was FALSE. Just like Green Eggs and Ham was false, fiction, fake. And if you don't want me to argue against "Automobile" and "Player Hater," why do you keep talking about it? Yes, maybe I would be double talking if I said what you said I said. But tell me where I double talked. If all of what you said were true that would be double talking. But as you know, you are a lair. Those are not my opinions on "Player Hater" or "Automobile," those are your opinions FOR ME. However, I reject them. "Hey Ya" ain't hip-hop because it doesn't sound like a hip-hop song to me. He is serious if you ask me. BIG and Easy didn't make a video for their songs; he did! He is singing in an R&B style to me. Thus, I think R&B when I hear it. And not R&B and Rap, just R&B. Plenty of raps can be R&B songs if you switch up the flow, pitch, etc. His flow, to me in that particular song, is not hip-hop. Furthermore, he don't even spit! FUTHERMORE! Automobile, to put it cleanly, is about sex for the most part. I never heard a country song talking about getting some dome. Have you? If so tell me about it because I would like to hear it. Player Hater, I can't really remember off hand so forgive me if I make a mistake, but I think that's about murking bammas and making gansta types of moves. When I hear a song talking about oral sex and "get out of my car if you ain't trying to give it up," I presume its a hip-hop song. IT MIGHT NOT BE, but that's the 1st assumption for me. In addition, if I hear a song talk about murdering youngins and hustling and being and making gangsta moves, I think it's probably a hip-hop song; IT MIGHT NOT BE, but that's the 1st assumption. And no, a song does not have to contain these aspects for it to be called hip-hop. With Hey Ya, dude was singing. About what I don't know. I'll tell you what, the next time it comes on, I won't turn it. I'll listen. Maybe he's talking about the same things I've said here. So tell me, if a person heard it and didn't know it was Outkast and didn't get any clues from the beats, would they be wrong to call it R&B. Oh yeah, one more thing about this: how do you know he wasn't serious? Besides peeps like Weird Al, who makes songs AND videos when they aren't serious? Your "G" paragraph was some real real nonsense. First of all, I never said anything about the DJs not liking hip-hop. Again you have attempted to get into my head and make some stupid conclusion. Please stop. Please. Yes, I believe that most people don't like hip-hop, that's me. You think most people do? Well, you can think that, but I think otherwise. And HERE in the USA if I want to hear hip-hop and I'm listening to a country station I can turn it (to hip-hop). But you can't do that everywhere in the world, dummy. I can do it here because there is a fan base here. Sorry, I'm still stuck on you thinking most people in the world like hip-hip. LOL, so young, so naive. Most stations don't air athletic competition, but I can turn to one that does. That's the difference. HA. Moving on, I know you weren't beating around the bush with me. It was for me. In that particular paragraph, you were addressing things I said about Outcast, Missy and Busta bamma, I know who it was directed to (me, that's who). Why would I be flattering myself to think that, when A) it's the truth? And B) you keep posting all of these long replies to me? Or is that to S Clover and Trife since they come here too? I know its for anybody to read, but bamma it was directed to me! Moving on, in your "I" paragraph, I don't know if you were actually mistaking or if you were just talking some famous Hillis nonsense. First of all, if I kill somebody and a witness saw it, and I left my prints on the weapon, lied about my alibi and have a motive to murk him, I could still be found not guilty. It could have been self defense. That bamma may have been trying to murk me because I hated on Outkast and he ain't like it. So he could come at me trying to kill me, but since I don't go for that bull, he'd catch it and, therefore I'd be not guilty. HA; checkmate again, bamma! And I really doubt if I said the sentences were unconnected. I may have and if so, my bad. Of course they were used to help make my point that the song wasn't hip-hop, that's why they were close together. But that does not mean that I was saying, "That song ain't hip-hop BECAUSE he doesn't even rap. You tried to put them together like that, but you forgot or even ignored the fact that I had a period at the end of the sentence. In fact, that's what help it be a sentence, THE PERIOD! And if somebody didn't hear it yes, I would say, he doesn't rap. Dummy, that is surprising since he is a hip-hop artist, so I would have a huge reason for saying or typing it. Even you SEEMED surprised that he "sung on the whole CD" or felt something like that...something remotely close to that. And as we noth said, I know better than anybody how QOOLOUT feels. I'm out like a lying liar who tells lies and then gets caught, but repeats the lies as if they were the truth.

Lastly, I can't believe I like the first 2 verses on Holidae Inn; I'm ashamed to admit it but I do. Now that's a funny song. What does he mean when he says the valet looks like he's in the game and is winning? Okay now I'm out like a lying liar who tells lies and then gets caught, but repeats the lies as if they were the truth.

"Peter Piper picked potent shit out the pocket/While Peter Pan poked the fairy's eye out the socket/I got an ev-il mind thats due to where I came from/Along with fifty million stories of where my pain's from/Walkin round the block with my the gloc in my hand/It's for protection, cuz somebody shot at my mans/With these evil thoughts that control my mind/And a mindset that send chill down people's spine/"................ Whoa!!That's TOO DARK!!! I can't be writing like that!! People might think I'm crazy. What up peeps?! I was listening to my 50 cent album instrumentals and the track to "Many Men" so I just went with the flow,that beat is sick! Yo Q, when we gonna start battles again!!!! What up Hillis?! I was looking at the old posts (from "throwdown part deux") and we all said some crazy shit!! I wanna get this thread bumpin like b4, so if anyone wanna throwdown on some battles let a nigga know. I'll be in touch. Peace!!

I hope the Yankees lose so these bandwagon Yankee fans can start crying.

Barkley is the best PF and NOT Malone (Hope this dont start an arguement)

Made Men (Benzino) and Murda Inc came 2gether to do a song called G-Unit Killas

UConn will win Final Four this year

Canes WILL win the national championships

Remember those Hillis vs Q vs Dolo vs 3:16 vs Best vs Squirrel Police vs wizzard vs Bob vs Rob battles?

A lot of rappers making references to "Juice" characters

Lebron James CAN be a successful point if forced to carry the burden.

"Michael Jackson's album was called 'Bad' cuz he didnt have room on the cover to call it 'pathetic'"----Prince circa '89

"Michael Jordan is God disguised as Michael Jordan"--Bird circa 88

"Iverson doesn't respect the veterans that been here before him"---Jordan circa 96

"On the court, I don't respect ANYONE"---Iverson circa 96

Peace out. One

"That's you in that big body benz, ha?" - Juvenile

Hypothetical situation here; if I ever wanted to murk someone for any reason, even one as silly as not realizing a bunch of hitmakers when he sees em, that person would be murked six feet under and pushin up daisies while sleepin with the fishes... lol

Qoolout, I think we're beating a dead horse on a few issues. First of all, I think we both agree that "Hey Ya is hip hop because it is done by a hip hop artist" and "Hey Ya is hip hop because it is done by a hip hop artist in the general style of hip hop" are two different statements. However, you feel they are remotely close; I don't. We're not gonna budge on our opinions, so let's move on. Second, you say that "Hey Ya ain't hip hop" and "Cuz does not rap" aren't related, but I don't believe you. Fine. We can move on. Following on those same lines, I say that my question about hip hop was not direted at you. You don't believe me. We won't budge on that and since they're opinion based, it's moot to argue that.

Still, there are a couple of my points backed up by facts that you still keep trying to put all these irrelevant twists on to sway them in your favor, but you're still wrong!

A) I don't care how many idiotic analogies you come up with; your logic about most people not liking Pass the C even though they've never heard it is ridiculous! If you're honest with yourself - HONEST, Qool - you'd know full well if you asked someone who'd NEVER heard Pass the C if they liked it, they would respond "What's Pass the C?" Then, if you told them it was a hip hop song, true, they might go "Well, I might not like it since it's hip hop" but they would probably concede that since they haven't ever heard it, they don't know. You like Jadakiss, right? Therefore, by your logic, you MUST like EVERY Jadakiss song! Maybe you do, but I doubt that it's simply because you like Jadakiss in general. It's probably because you heard all of Jada's cuts. Piss here, piss there, change the channel to sports, blah, blah, blah, whatever! You're wrong! You cannot sit here and assume someone doesn't like a song they've never heard! And you, Qoolout, maybe can assume YOU don't like urine without ever tasting it. But you cannot assume it for another person! And maybe you can assume about people not liking hip hop in general. But you absolutely cannot assume anything about one particular song! You're still wrong and you'll continue to be wrong no matter how many stupid ass twists you think of!

B) You missed the point about the court case. Maybe you did it in cold blood. Maybe you did it in self defense. The point is, just going, "Your honor, I know better than anyone whether it was self defense or not" is not a valid point. It doesn't strengthen your case. It's just a statement that the judge will look at you and go "Prove it!"

C) I can't believe you have so much trouble grasping basic grammatical setups! You were an English major! A clown, yes, but an English major, too. Or so you claim. Anyway, how in the world do you not understand the function of the pronoun "that?" The pronoun "that" cannot stand alone! If I came in here and said, "Qool, that's what I'm talkin about!" you'd either have to already know what "that" represents; otherwise you would ask me "What are you talkin about?" Remember, these examples only work if you are HONEST with yourself. "That" had to represent something. Now, the sentence went "That seems to be the direction of your argument if you ask me." So, again, remember "that" refers to something else. I have explained to you what "that" refers to. "That" clearly refers to "So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not when it comes to Outkast, because you don't like them." If I'm losing you because you're slow, the next time I post, I'll break it down again for you. For the 4th time. But let's say you're still with me. "That" refers to "So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not when it comes to Outkast, because you don't like them." So, in essence - and remember I am backed by basic grammatical principles - I said "So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not when it comes to Outkast, because you don't like them seems to be the direction of your argument if you ask me." Remember, Qool, you have to be HONEST - which you haven't been doing.

So, I'll give you all that other stuff about "remotely" and "cuz does not rap." But we can argue til Jesus comes back about you being absolutely WRONG about assuming someone doesn't like Pass the C and that "That seems to be the direction of your argument" is CLEARLY referring to "So hip hop is more than rapping and singing, but not when it comes to Outkast, because you don't like them." Unlike you, I am backing my argument up with FACTS, and you just come up with totally irrelevant analogies. So just because your debate skills are way strong like mine doesn't mean you have to act like you muphukin Ron O'Neal. Bamma.

3-3, huh? Prepare to go 7-9! You'll be plottin on a runnin game next year, bamma.

I'm out like a lying liar who doesn't have debate skills way strong like Hillis. Peace!

"They love it when I gets to crippin, and spittin this mag-ic-ic-nificent pimpin..." - Snoop Dogg

Despite that fact that it's only me and Qool and J-Dolo "erynownden" with a post, I figure I might try to extend some topics to other posters - who aren't postin - so they can get in this, too. Does anybody care about this baseball series stuff? Me, I can't stand when it's baseball season because no football or basketball is on, but the playoffs kinda be interesting. I'm somewhat of a Cubs fan, but definitely not die hard. I mean, I cheer for em, but when they don't win, I ain't pissed for days like I am when the Vols, Titans, or Lakers lose. That Martinez stuff was funny when he slammed that old ass man into the turf... I just want to say that I think Luda's ew album is 5 mics. My pleas will fall on deaf ears for sure, but "Hoes In My Room" with Snoop is funny as hell. Also, "Diamond in the Back," "Southern Fried Intro," and "Hard Times" are superb. Now there are some songs on there called "We Got," "Screwed Up," "Stand Up" and "P Poppin" which I love, but I must admit, they are EXTREMELY southern (Screwed Up has Freestyle King H*WOOD's ass himself, Lil Flip). However, I'm diggin this more than his previous albums, which I also loved. So at least check out Hoes In My Room with Snoop off of Kazaa or somethin.

Barkley was the PF off all PFs. At 6-6 he was more dominant than a bunch of these 6-10, 6-11 bozos. In his prime he played about 7-1. He's definitely better than Malone, who is no slouch, but Barkley was better... G-Unit Killa? Benzino, please! You suck! Stop this madness!

I'm out like Benzin-ho. Peace!

J-Dolo, I'm not trying to spit again just yet, but maybe Hillis or H-wood will go at it with you.
One thing that you said happened to be intelligent Hill. We ain't gonna budge on our points so I guess we should move on to something new. But for the record, I just can't seriously believe that you believe that those said statements aren't even REMOTELY close...because they are; the first 13 words are the same. And I didn't say the sentences were completely unrelated; I just said they don't go together in one single sentence, but like you suggested, let's move on. I admit that my example of peeps not liking Pass the C was farfetched, however I know it's possible. It's as simple as saying "I don't like rap music." I would guess you know at least a few people that don't like rap. So someone could say "If 'Pass the C' is hip-hop, I'm not going to like it because I don't like hip-hop." You know that's possible and pretty likely. So they could have never heard it before and still know they won't like it. Yeah, I can't really say more people hate it than like it (but I believe this), however by that same way of thinking, you can't say vise versa about it, despite billboard and units shipped. Moving on, I disagree that I missed the point in the "court case story." "Your honor, I know better than anyone whether it was self defense or not" could work, if you ask ME. Could that statement alone work? Most likely not, but I wouldn't even take the stand; if five people saw it, I can just let them tell the judge. Actually, I doubt it would make it to court, but point taken. You're (a hoax) saying "I know what happened better than anyone else" won't work in court, you need more. For the record, in court, I agree with you. Still, that doesn't take away from the fact that I do know better. Right? Moving on, bamma, I've been nothing but honest. I know what "that" meant. I had no dispute with "that." My beef was with where you tried to transfer your "seems." But even if I were to grant the lair (you) your "seems" argument, you were still incorrect. This is what you refuse to accept. I mean you are working towards becoming a lawyer someday. Well, you claim you are, but I don't really know. Anyway, as a lawyer it would behoove you to understand that sometimes you will be wrong. Accept this like a man, not like the clown you are. Look, just because it "seemed" like that was my point of view, or whatever you called it, doesn't mean I can't call you on being wrong. It seemed a certain way to you. Look up "seem" yourself. This implies that YOU thought that's how it was; that was the impression according to you; nevertheless, that's not how it REALLY was. Consequently, you were wrong. That was my primary point. You can argue all day long, all you want but I never felt that way about Outkast's Hey Ya. You guessed I did, but you were off; you were wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it SEEMS like you think, something can't be wrong if you said "SEEMS" about it, but it can be. Now if you don't understand this because you are a MORON, go ask someone else to explain it to you. I predicted the Skins would go 10-6; thus, you ain't saying nothing. And you left out the S at the beginning of the word when you were talking about your hitmakers. But if a fool even had a dream he put the Q double (LOL) six feet deep he'd wake up, log on and APOLOGIZE via email like the BBD hit, Jack. Finally, my analogies are GREAT BAMMA. I pride myself on them funny, yet true comparisons. And I don't like urine and that's no assumption. And when it comes to debating, you don't wanna do nothing but master (minus the DE, since you have no D) (whoa).

I broke down and got Sheek's solo thing. Question. I'm not thru the whole cd yet, but I heard my boy Jada on two of them so far. How come he blows away Sheek on his own track? I'm not being biased. I'll get the name of it and post it if need be. So the question is, does it hurt an artist to be outdone so badly by his guest, or do people just ignore it and focus in on how tight the verse is? Jae Hood has a nice spit on there too.

I do like baseball and I can go to the game and watch it. But I don't enjoy it that much on TV. I root for B-More since the District doesn't have a team... YET. But it is way more fun to play it. In fact, I played it with my job and we went all the way to the championship. The TA Dodgers (I had nothing to do with that name). We lost, so we went home with second place, but this was my rookie year, (with them). Next year...all the way baby. I'm not trying to get in it again with you Hill (or bring it to you again) but I can't stand that bamma Luda. At least I'm not alone with this though, like with Outkast. As for those PF's J-Dolo mentioned, they both were pretty good in their prime, but until you get a ring you ain't done. Most people throw Dan M outta Miami in my face, or Jim Kelly or even my favorite player R dot Miller when I speak on not getting a ring. And all of them peeps are great examples of great players who never won it all. But I think the major goal is to win a championship. Which is why the TA Dodgers will do just that in 04!

I'm up for a battle J-Dolo, I might get my ass kicked but what the hell. I haven't steped in the ring in a while. By the way don’t take any of my disses seriously J-Dolo, it’s nothing personal at all. But there is nothing really to battle off of so I had to make up shit. It’s nothing to take seriously.

I'm creating this poetic, method, rhetoric that stays connected/
destroying your hectic, pathetic, prosthetic, beheaded lines that need a medic/
I could end it but forget it, I'm going for extra credit//

I shoot slugs & kill thugs, you rather snuggle & hug thugs/
I’ll blast you open and use your fur as my seat rug//

You won’t your shit to be hard hitting? Try digging up Ty Cobb/*
I’ll still burn and stab your lines like shish kabobs//

Stop with the Bullish, you don't want trouble/
you fucking with a real nigga, not a stunt double/
cause running against bullets will make ya blood fumble//

I can't claim to be God, but I recognize sin/
Only reason you listen to 50, is cause you stay with Many Men//**

Your only Instrumental is blowing on niggas genitals/
Fuck your Prince quote cause they know who's the smooth criminal/***
Who breaks your DNA down from every ounce to every mineral/
ship the remains to your family to sprinkle it over their cereal//

Package courtesy of you know who/
how the fuck you expect to battle now, your mom just swallowed you//****

Just back down, cause there’s no chance of victory...
That’s the reality, you’d be more likely to get Star Jones to burn a calorie/
Or Terell Owens to reduce his salary//

Cause I study logically, and eat MC’s precisely/
No need to continue & battle me//

It’s like Allen Iverson getting on the mic and rappin, again/
I’m David Stern, best believe that shit ain’t gonna happen//*****

Just incase some people didn’t get some of my metaphors, here is a glossary to kinda figure out my sick twisted thoughts. I’m pretty sure most of you guys will get it, but the newbies might be curious.

*Ty Cobb is the former hit king of baseball (Pete Rose broke the record). The racist bastard is dead just in case you didn't know.

**J-Dolo mentioned he was rapping on the Instrumental of the Many Men beat, I related the line towards that.

***J-Dolo put a quote where Prince was dissing Michael Jackson. Jackson made a song called Smooth Criminal.

****I'm not sure if people still say this or not. But the old saying "Your Mom Should have swallowed you" is referencing that your mom should have given oral instead of fucking when they conceived you. It's a harsh way of saying I wish you were never born. I kinda flipped it, so it made sense to my earlier cannibal metaphor.

*****I made a paly on J-Dolo quoting Allen Iverson. If you remember he tried to start a rap career until David Stern the commissioner of the NBA put an end to it.

LOL, I guess Qool knows now that Florida football is the best in the country. The state of Florida pumps out talent on the college & pro levels. Including the Tampa Bay Bucks who thrashed Washington (Had to rub that in). Even the best the coach & the best player on Washington are Florida products. By the way where the hell is Taylor Jacobs? I thought they drafted him?

I'm surprised you didn't mention Elvin Hayes, Qool. Where's the love for the great Washington Bullets PF, Qool! Especially the part when you were talking about great players not getting a ring. Considering that Elvin got one. I was waiting for you to scream out Elvin, what's up? I'm happy I got NBA TV & ESPN Classics cause I really get to see how these players played back then, instead of hearing about it or looking at a stat book. I think Elvin could probably hang with them. Only thing he doesn't have on them is probably size. Charles & Malone could body him in the post probably.

Kevin McHale wasn't bad either during those Celtic title runs. But I don't think he would have been as dominate against 90's version of Charles (90-93) or Malone (95-98). He was able to handle a young skinny Charles but not CB in his prime. Malone has been consistent but not really overachieving. I think his success is due more to longevity in the league. His stats will look better, but like Qool said it's always that elusiveness of a championship that hurts him & CB. I think as a player, Charles has the title right now. Duncan has not only matched their highest credentials in 6 years, but surpassed them. If he continues his pace, and grabs their records, he will bump them off.

For the record I'm waiting for Bill O'Reilly to be hit with a scandal just like Rush did. These fools go on air and act like they are perfect, as if they do no wrong. Then this fool Rush is caught with Oxycotinin (a.k.a. Hillbilly Heroine) pain killers. Bill is next I know it. What he did to Luda was wrong, and down right hypocritical & racist. He didn't attack when Ozzy Ozbourne & his family for doing those Pepsi commercials. Jack is known drug abuser, as so Ozzy. They cuss like crazy on MTV which is a station that attracts teens. What's the deal! I'm happy at least that Russell regulated on Pepsi. And I'm happy Luda dissed Bill on his new album. Mark my words, Bill will slip up and get caught in a scandal. Then the whole world will see guys like him for who they are.

I ain't gonna lie I've been feeling Ja lately. I listened to this track called Bang Bang on Caddillac Tah's album. I kinda like Ja's verse. He seems to kinda be reverting back to his Venni Vetti Vecci days. But I think it's too little, too late, cause the past two years he has killed his street cred.

Is it just me or is everyone doing double albums now? I guess people can't be original anymore, they still wanna be like Pac. Besides that point other than Pac's & Biggies they have all been garbage. I don't think Ja Fool will break that trend either with his double album.

Imagine that, William Sloppy beating Bernard Hopkins. I'm not a Hopkins fan either, and for damn sure not a Joppy fan. I could careless about that fight. I'm just hoping for Tito to come back, and the rest of the boxing world can fuck they self. Most of these fools is getting pimped by Don King anyway. I'm happy my dawg Fernando V doing is own thing with promotion. At least he knows what boxers go through on the grind unlike King.

Jada is simply a better Emcee than Sheek. Bar None, pointblank. Out of all The Lox tracks I have, there is not one where I think Sheek outshines Jada. Simply put, if Jada is the Illest in the group, and Styles is the Pippen to Jada's Jordan. Then Sheek is the Rodman of the group. He simply does not give a fuck about the flow. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But he's there for more of the emotion then the lyricism. If you noticed Jada & Styles don't really switch their flow up. It's pretty much the same deal on every track. But Sheek is more louder, and is more emotional on the tracks. He's the one ad-libbing the most, talking shit, saying Fuck the world! Just like Rodman got the team up with his attitude, that's how Sheek contributes.

I think Just Blaze explained how colabos are done nowadays perfectly. He said it's more about promotion than just getting together and doing a track. Sometimes the two artist don't even have to record the song together. They just lay their vocals on the beat, and send it off to the artist to rap on it. The whole mentality is, if I get this rapper on my CD that means more sells cause they are the top people in the game right now. I think the artist who hand picks these artist to do their songs aren't as worried about getting outshined, as they are about the sales. With Sheek & Jada its kinda different cause of them being a group. But think about it... why the hell has Jada been featured on almost every Ruff Ryder album? Sheek hasn't, Styles hasn't...but always Jada???

I've said enough

Copyright Hillis
I'm out like that dude in the stands who fucked up the Cubs in game 6. Expect that fool to be lying in Lake Michigan soon...I'm also out like the Cubs from the World Series!

What up H-Wood? We did pick up T. Jacobs, but this is what happened...I think. He suffered a small injury during the preseason or off-season. But one week ago, before the Bucs game, he was on TV talking about he was all better now and ready to play. I thought we would see him, but I guess the coaches feel he ain't ready yet. Since I don't watch college ball, I never really saw cuz play, so I don't know how good he is or ain't. As for FL pumping out great ballers, I concur. However, I think our best player is Champ Bailey. When Norv was here he let him play a little wideout too. It's either him or LaVar Arrington and since I like C-backs (even though I burn em') I'ma say Champ is our best. But I give FL their props for our coach and the best receivers we've seen since Art, Gary, and Ricky. Oh yeah, on Madden that boy T. Jacobs is the truth. If Gardener doesn't stop dropping easy passes, we might see your boy. As for Elvin, I didn't really start watching B-Ball until he was long gone. As for O'Reilly, that bamma be lunchin'. As stated before, I can't stand Luda, but he was wronged by Bill. I feel you 100% on that point. It ain't no way you can convince me that Luda is worse than Ozzy. I never watch that MTV show, but flippin pass it, I know that at even given time them clowns are cussin like an up and coming Eddie Murphy. O'Reilly should have gotten Ozzy kicked outta Pepsi too, but NOOOOOOO. He let that ride. What's the song where Luda dissed him? I might actually listen to it. Lastly H-Wood, if you listen to the L.O.X only album on Ruff Ryders, you'll see that it is tight as a whole, not just Jada, but all three of them flow. Jada is better, yes, but everybody holds their own. How come none of them put out a solo CD even half as good? And I'm including my boy. Out of the 3, none of their solo CDs were that tight.

Let me get y'alls take on Da Band. I watched the show and them fools had me cracking up with all that fighting and talking about Puff, like he wasn't gonna watch the tape. I wasn't gonna take them serious at first, but I gotta admit that their joint "Bad Boy This & That" is tight. Out of just THAT song, who has the best flow. To me it can be either Ness or Chopper, but right now I say Chopper. I've been going back and forth on this, so next time I post I might be feeling Ness a lil bit more, LOL. Holla.

I haven't heard enough of the single to really get a handle on it, but what I heard sounded alright. I don't know if I can take Da Band seriously, though. I just keep thinking about that episode where Ness was in the booth and Diddy was teaching how to do doubles on some line and he kept saying "hang glide wit it". that shit just cracks me up. and Choppa is a joke, dude is so unoriginal he tried to use the name someone on No Limit already has, and what's more, apparently he's bullshitting about New Orleans, supposedly he's really from Maryland, but now noone in N.O. or Bmore wants to claim his ass as their own.

Hollywood, I can't believe you put fucking footnotes at the end of your battle rap to explain every reference. you're signifying rappers like my boy D.F. Dub.*

* haha sike, I'll let someone else figure that one out.

"I got some butter pecan Puerto Ricans from the Boogie Down..." - Snoop Dogg

H*WOOD, that was tight, but I agree with Al that you ain't have to put the explanations at the bottom! You tryin to say we ain't smart enough to get your metaphors???

Foolout, you're still a joke! I let it slide earlier (since this ain't no spellin bee), but since you commented on "eack" lemme just say, quit callin me a "lair!" lol Anyway, "seems" doesn't mean I thought it was one way, but I was wrong. "Seems" means that while the sitaution may look a certain way, you acknowledge that the situation may actually be different. For example, if your girl saw you on the street huggin some fine ass broad and then go into her apartment, it may SEEM like you're cheating on her. But your girl may acknowledge that in actuality, there's a legitimate explanation. The girl might be a cousin you ain't seen in a long time and she's taking you up to visit your aunt and uncle! So I was saying that it SEEMS like you were bending your definition of hip hop to discredit Outkast, but I was acknowledging that in actuality you knew better than to come up with some wack ass "Hey Ya ain't hip hop/cuz does not rap" argument. Of course, since then, I do believe that was your wack ass argument. You say it's not; I don't believe you. But we've moved on so you don't have to defend yourself anymore.

Sure, you may not have to take the stand with 5 people testifying, but (again) THAT IS IRRELEVANT! The fact is, "Your honor, I know better than anybody it was self defense" is not valid evidence! Yes, I agree - you know better than anybody what you meant. But that could mean that you know better than anybody that it really WAS cold blooded murder. Maybe the man liked Outkast and you tryin to start poppin off people But just saying that without proving it means nothing! You can say it all you want, but no one will believe you if you just say that with no evidence! Bamma ass analogies...

I think H*WOOD hit the nail on the head, the spike on the side, and the tack in the middle with his view on Sheek and Jada. Back when I used to hate the Lox - mainly Jada and Styles - I still found Sheek highly amusing, because his emotion sort of combined with his wack rhymes to be entertaining. It used to baffle me that a lot of people would mention that Jada of the Lox was good, and I'd be like "I only really feel Sheek because he funny as hell." Of course, NOW, I think Jada is the standout member, so it's not really that bad that Jada murks Sheek. I mean, if Jada murked Nas, Jay, Em, Big, Pac, or anybody in the upper echelon of rap (I would mention Kast, 50 and Luda, but I know how Qool feels about them) THEN it would be bad. But Jada murkin Sheek? Nah, playa, that ain't bad; that's just reality.

Did someone say Madden?! As in 2004? Don't y'all know I'm the greatest??? Me and my boys play 3 min quarters and it be on like thigh bone - whatever that means. Lots of smack talkin, but of course I'M the best...

Ludacris takes a shot at Bill O'Reilly on "Hoes In My Room" and "Blow It Out." He only mentions Bill once on each song. It ain't Ether (shittin all over Takeover) or Hit Em Up. "Blow It Out" as a song is aiight, but "Hoes in My Room" is definitely the cut.

I'm not about to listen to Da Band. Their whole existence is a huge gimmick. You see them lame ass niggas fightin on a reality show and from what I already said I heard on the radio, I think they wack. Of course, Diddy is wack, too, so what can I expect?!

That line about 50 and Many Men was almost - ALMOST - as funny as Freestyle King my ass...

I'm out like Bill "Ho"Reilly. Peace!

"See I'm a cold hearted murder just like Al Capone..." - DJ Paul

And another thing, Qoolio... Don't be tryin to have some debate with me about whether or not Andre 3000 is serious when he's singing! You've listened to all of 5 or 6 Outkast songs, so you ain't anywhere near some type of expert. Just cause the boy next door was a fan, doesn't mean you took in any knowledge. Take what you know about Kast, multiply it by 100 and you'd still only know half what I do. I been listenin to Kast hard core since 1996 - your freshman year in Qlown Qollege. Andre 3000 has been singing on tracks since Aquemini (1998), and he ain't never claim to be Luther on them, so I don't know why all of a sudden he would think he is now. I mean, he is singing seriously in the fact that he is in tune and on key, but as far as being the next Brian McKnight? Hell naw. And on the album, you can tell that he is not singing seriously. Try and listen to a song called "Roses" and tell me you honestly think he is being serious. Also, one of the reasons you stated that "Automobile" and "Player Hater" are hip hop was mainly because of the topics, but you failed to state the topic of "Hey Ya" and how it was different, so I wonder what was the reason of bringing it up? I can tell you that Hey Ya is probably about a couple in a sexual relationship and that they shouldn't try to take it further. Of course, I agree that the topic would strengthen the argument for Automobile and Player Hater, but I don't think that should be one of the strong points, simply because we both know that hip hop doesn't have to be solely based on bitches, hoes, sex, robbery, and murder. I respect your opinion and reasons (even though it took 5 or 6 posts for you to muster it up); however, I think if you were more familiar with Outkast, you MAY feel different. Outkast has songs like "Funky Ride" "Spottieottiedopalicious" "Liberation" and "Toilet Tisha" whereby one may not recognize them as hip hop if they ain't know it was Kast. But to me, Hey Ya ain't that out of the ordinary since I'm more familiar with their work. Of course, you may have heard all the songs and still think they ain't hip hop. That's your opinion. Fair enough.

I been racking my brain for a while to come up with a verse, and I had writer's block for a good minute. I haven't written since I was murkin Qool last April! But I came up with a random battle verse that's not really directed at anybody - just to try and get back in to spittin. If it sucks, I apologize to all my fans and will work on getting back up to par...

"Uh, uh, uh, poetic this, POETIC THAT, you fuckin with the most DREADED cat/you gon be lyrically beHEADED, cat, beef with me? you better DEAD IT cat//I gotta be alone at the top thanks to my ego and my selfishness/"Why you murder your opponents like that?" your honor, it was self defense//you must be insane thinkin you can outrhyme me/you'll face a death that's painful and untimely//plus, I'm playing your girl quite nice like Deion and two sports/she say you get in where you fit in because your dick's Too $hort//that's probably why she would let me GO IN her RAW/when she with you she said it's like she's BLOWIN a STRAW//but you can stop playin that straight role like you're the HARDEST of TODAY/I should call you MARVIN cause you STARVIN and you GAY(e)//yeah I said it; you're a FAG, a COWARD/on dates, dudes be bringing you the BATCH of FLOWERS!"

It's kind of random with the direction, but hey, it's got some promise!

I'm out like these Panthers to the Tight Titans. Peace!

"My heart bleeds for you nigga, I can't wait to get to you, behind the twinkle in ya eyes, I can see the bitch in you..." - 50 Cent

Looks like this thang is sick again, so I'm gonna throw some more stuff out there...

Qool, I know you got Beyonce's album and I assume you like it. I've been seeing the collabos and listening to a few tracks and I must say it's a solid effort. She got Luther, your favorite Missy Elliot, and Jay on 2 tracks. I like em all, plus the Sean Paul song is nice.

What's with the Bucs? They let soft ass San Fran put the smack down on em! I think they gon fall under .500 next week cause them Cowboys are coin to play. I think Bill Parcells is probably the greatest coach ever in my opinion. However, I'd say he's undeniably the greatest of the current coaching era. I have to give props to Vince Lombardi and Bill Walsh, cause they, too, did fine jobs in their times. And there's Dick Vermeil, who also does the damn thing. However, Parcells seems to improve a team as soon as he steps on the sidelines. Parcells exhibits the formula that I think it takes to win in the NFL...

I get tired of hearing you "have" to run in the NFL. Defense wins championships. All these other moronic cliches suck. You only need 2 things to win in the NFL. Personnel and chemistry. Schemes are important, true, but you don't get to be a head coach or coordinator in the NFL without having a grasp on the NFL schemes. But Parcells understands that personnel and chemistry are the two biggest things needed. Ultimately, you gotta have good players. Heart and desire can only get you so far when you're playing someone decidely better than you. But generally in the NFL the talent gap isn't as wide as college. For example, it's not unheard for teams like the Texans or Bengals to beat temas like the Colts or the Chiefs. But that won't happen too often. So for the playoff caliber teams, chemistry takes them over the top. The Bucs all came together at the right time cause of chemistry. The Eagles always beat that ass, but not when it mattered cause the Bucs were "gellin." That's why coaches like Tony Dungy, Parcells, Vermeil, and Lombardi in his day are/was so good. They get their players to believe in themselves and play above their physical talent. Even though Herm Edwards' Jets are 2-4 and Cowher's Steelers, too, they both get their players to play at their highest level, and the Jets and Steelers will be competing for a playoff spot later on. And though the Bengals and Texans are weak personnel wise, once Lewis and Capers have more time implementing his scheme and personnel they will compete, too. I think the coach may take too much blame when a lot of players or good teams fail, but ultimately it falls on the players. But you do have a few coaches who will be difference makers - not because they scheme the best or "coach" the best. It's because they bring an attitude of winning and believing in your teammates, coach, and your scheme. Chemistry and personnel. Take Dallas. Parcells doesn't have that good of a team. Quincy Carter was like third string last year. Their running game is aiight. Their defense ain't all that. But they're winning because Parcells genuinely believes in them, which became infectious. They have beaten some pretty good teams, and beaten the teams they were supposed to. They all believe that they can do it this year (not in two or three), which is why they'll win the East (sorry, Qool). Ultimately they will be exposed for not being that good of a team (remember, personnel is part of it, too), but they show you what chemistry can do, and it should be exciting (at least for Dallas fans) to see what happens once Parcells puts in more of "his" players.

Kobe's case is going to trial. Will we finally officially learn this chick's name?

What was better - TO's TD or Randy's lateral???

I'm out like the Bills on Redskinnies. Peace!

First of all Hill, I wasn't clowning you with "eack." I thought it was a misspelled word, but at the time, I couldn't figure out what word it was supposed to be, therefore I asked you. You took it as a joke, when I seriously wanted to know what it meant. Just like one time I asked what bra-lic meant. Come to find out it was some NY slang, so I just thought you were commin' with some bamma south side slang. Once again, you can put on a case about how I'm making this up, but the truth is I was serious and I do know that better than you. Speaking of knowing things better than you, I never used "I know better than you" by itself. I used that to conclude. I said my argument and then I was like FURTHERMORE, I know how I feel better than you know how I feel, so nothing else really matters. I backed up how I felt, but if you want to disregard it that's fine, but you must remember, I know my feelings and thoughts better than you can ever hope to, Jack. Oh yeah, AL, before I forget, that "hang glide with him" episode didn't have me laughing at first, but now that you mentioned it, I crack up every time I think about it, including as I type this. Okay, where was I? If you want to get specific with it, and you obviously do, we can. I thought "seems" means that's how you saw it, and that's what you thought. And if you think I'm hating on a song because I don't like the singer and you go on to post about it, then you really believe the situation is what it seems to be. *But I stand corrected (*sarcaism). However, I can say it seemed different to me. And it did. It seemed like I said "Hey Ya" ain't hip-hop and then I put a period behind the sentence. Then it seemed like I was adding to my point by telling that the bamma didn't even rap! In conclusion, when I typed it, it never SEEMED like I was dismissing it as UN-hip-hop because I hate the artist as a rapper, duo, and as a muthaflippin crew. I dismissed it because that crap was and is solely an R&B song, WITHOUT hip-hop. FURTHERMORE, I know better than you what I was attempting to convey. Additionally, since we aren't really dropping this (but acting like we are) your sentence was REMOTELY close to the statement I pointed out to you. Are you going to continue to deny it? Just asking. Moving on to more redundancy, "Your honor, I know better than anybody it was self defense" is not invalid evidence. No, it can't stand alone, but it is very important evidence. If I tell the jury or judge this, it can only help. For one, if I don't show them I believe it, why should they? For two, it's the truth. I'm not sure if I'm correct here, but it SEEMS like you are trying to explain that YOU know better than I, what was in MY head. I'm not saying you said this, but it SEEMS that way. I can say it SEEMS like you want to marry a man. Bamma, don't try to use SEEMS as a license to spit nonsense and then act like the world supposed to let it ride because you claimed it seemed a certain way. Negro, it seemed that way and consequently you assumed it was that way, and you were and still are WRONG. I don't care how many times you define "seems" just like you don't care about the truth, you were incorrect. And if a bamma come trying to murk me because I hate him, Outkast and the boat he came in on and he ends up sleeping with the fish in the end instead of moi, why would I say "I know what happened better than y'all" and just leave it at that? I never said I'd leave it at that, so what are you talking about this time? Moving on, if Jada did murk 50, Kast, or Luda I wouldn't be surprised, especially since he already did murk one of them (whoa). Oh yeah, listen to Ten Hut by Sheek, just to see what I was talking about with him and J-A-D-A. Moving on, you don't want none of this in Madden. LaVar would have your QB hearing foot steps; then I'd send in Champ for a CB sack. Moving on, I don't need a lecture about how long you've been a fan of Outkast. I don't really care. I don't need to hear every track to think that cuz was being serious. Yeah, he was on tune like you say, he made a video to it and that bamma tries to sound like a real singer to me. In my opinion, he was being serious, case close. Unless you know him personally, I don't agree that you can say cuz wasn't serious, even after he does the listed aspects plus other things. And I don't know the topic, did you not see that? I typed it, go reread. If he's talking about getting some head on that song, then I missed it. Moving on, how did you know I had my wife's CD (Beyonce')? Maybe I don't have it, maybe I don't like it. Sike, you know I keep that joint up in the ride and got it on the first day. That's my girl, but once again you and I are gonna have to disagree. I don't like most of the the co-lab-bos. Luther is cool and the single with Jay. As you probably know, I hate the joint with dude from Outkast (and being that it's Beyonce's song, I REALLY tried to FORCE myself to like it...but it sucks), I don't like the second Jay-Z song and I can't stand that bamma Sean Paul, mainly because I don't know what cuz is ever talking about, if anything. I think she shines the most when its just her. Check out Me, Myself and I, or Dangerously in Love (which was on the last Destiny's Child CD). Oh yeah, just in case you ain't know, yeah, I don't like the joint with Missy. I got the Fighting Temptations Soundtrack because, well you know why, but I think Missy is on the first track, first verse, as soon as you put in the disc and the verse is terrible. I think she tries to be funny and it's just not making me laugh. I gotta go right now, but I'll be back to discuss football (Randy's play was better). I will say the Cowboys will not win that division. And I'm making a pledge, if my Skins get an L from the Cowgirls in their next game, I'll say we are sorry, we are weak, and all that other stuff Hill says. I won't even rep them anymore (on this board) this season if Hill thinks I shouldn't. But since I know we are gonna whip them and show that they and the coach aren't as good as the record shows, I'm relaxed. Usually I don't do this but, "I guarantee a Redskin win against Dallas!" Yeah, I said it.

"I don't give a fuck if I sold one or one million, but I think you should, cause if I only sold one, then out comes the hood..." - Jay-Z

I also think Foolout should worry about this ass whippin he bout to get... but d-d-d-don't t-t-t-take this puh-puh-puh-personally...

Why is it that I can't say if Andre 3000 is serious because I don't know him personally, but YOU can even though you don't know him personally, either?! NEGRO, PLEASE! And let's not even talk about your lame ass evidence - which is highly assumptive anyway! He made a video to it? So flippin what! You've seen the video! He plays the same 7 or 8 characters and is hoppin around in the 60s! That's serious to you?! Besides, he sings on all but one track on the whole album, so pretty much ANY video he makes will have singing on it, so your point that he made a video to a song where he sings is irrelevant. The reason he made a video is probably because he liked that song more than some of the others on the track! That doesn't mean he picked that because it displayed some Lutheresque talent, MORON! And there were times that mama tried to lecture you, and you ain't wanna hear it, you knucklehead lil boy, but my "lecture" was actually RELEVANT to our debate unlike anything you ever say. You ain't got to care, but the fact that I know Outkast WAY better than you pretty much makes my statements about Andre 3000 a lot more plausible than yours! For example, if some bamma (you) came in here and said he'd only heard two Jada (Outkast) tracks and says Jada (Outkast) always spits about money (seriously tries to sing), you'd (I'd) probably (definitely) murk him and say that Jada (Outkast) doesn't because you (I) been listenin to Jada (Outkast) for a minute and can name a dozen songs where Jada (Outkast) spits about some other ill stuff (doesn't seriously sing). Now who's more credibile: you (me), a die hard Jada (Outkast) fan, or some bamma (you) that done heard a few tracks? I'll defeat the purpose of that rhetorical question and say that YOU are (I am), MORON!

Next, at the time I said "SEEMS," I did not assume it was that way or believe it. That's the whole point of the term "SEEMS." A few posts LATER, after you had posted some more comments, that's when I said I believe you said it because you simply don't Outkast. Later! Not at that time! AT THAT TIME, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and I was giving you a chance to explain yourself, which you didn't do until about 3 or 4 posts LATER, so LATER, I said that your hesitance was a reason why I do believe it NOW! See, if you actually comprehended the meaning of the word "SEEMS" you'd have dropped this 15 posts ago. I can't TELL you what you meant with your statements, so why can you TELL me what I meant? What's up with all this double talkin! First with knowing Andre personally, now with what I meant! You need bactrack, regroup, rethink, slow ya roll, etectera, etcetera...

Also, I don't have a problem with you simply saying it was self defense. It's the "knowing better than anyone" part. That doesn't help. At all. Combined with all the evidence that you are innocent, it still means nothing. You might as well have all the evidence and then throw in, "plus I was born in May" or "plus I post on threads in my spare time." It doesn't add at all. The fact that you know better than anyone means nothing. Again, you do know better than anyone whether it was murder or self defense, but since you could be lying and we have no idea based on your say so, it is irrelevant. Saying it doesn't hurt, but it does not help. At all!

"Hey Ya is a gay ass song because it is done by a gay ass artist in the general style of homosexuality." That statement is ALSO not even REMOTELY close to what I said. If you think it is, fine. I can let it go. But like a female, you seem to want to have the last word (lol). Go ahead, have it if you want (leap, frog, leap!)...

When I mentioned the Beyonce collabos, I was actually thinking that you would like them because Beyonce was so fire. I couldn't care less about Sean Paul being on Baby Boy, Beyonce is muphukin flames! We probably all agree that Beyonce has the luxury of actually being able to sing to go with her beauty (unlike J-Lo, Britney). I really just like hearing her on the collabos. Cuz from Kast (Big Boi) is staright with me and so is his boy Sleepy, but I think Beyonce is fire on that, too. Not that I'm dissing Kast, but sometimes you gotta suffer through the storm to get to the rainbow (I can't believe I said that) so suffer through Big Boi/Sleepy just to hear the lovely Ms. Knowles - who Jay-Z and I are cuttin. Anyway, I'll definitely peep the solo cuts as well. LMAO @ "Maybe I don't have it, maybe I don't like it." Yeah... right... my bad... there I go assuming things again...

Dude, you can rep them sorry Redskinnies til the cow(boy)s come home (and wax you). I don't care. But just realize they WILL suffer that ferocious L to a better prepared, better coached... hell, just BETTER team! You see how us Tight Titans did Carolina... you might just need to plot on avoiding the playoffs, cause the end result of any of your success would be to get pummeled in the S dot Bowl by McNair and his Folks. That opening day win seems so long ago...

Man, I'm out like Mister Allen Iverson. Peace!

"Now all Beyonces and Lucy Lius and baby dolls, get on the floor..." - Andre 3000

Yeah, I also know that you didn't know the topic of Hey Ya. So my question was where were you going when you started talking about the topics of Automobile and Playa Hater? You mentioned them being considered hip hop songs at first glance because they was about head and gangsta moves, respectively. But you didn't counter with Hey Ya was about XYZ so I associate XYZ with R&B. You just stated you didn't know the topic, so if it was about head and gangsta moves it SEEMS that following along with your statement about Automobile and Playa Hater, that Hey Ya actually IS hip hop. Of course, now when you said that, why did you bring the topic of a song into the debate? I just didn't follow.

And I also forgot to tell you that Jadakiss has no point on Made You Look (remix). Yeah, sure, you said Nas said the point of the song was X, but I wasn't talkin about the song. I said Jadakiss. His verse is random. Tight, but random and goes from this to that to over there and beyond. He has no point on that track.

On Madden (of course not Pharell/For Real) the Redskinnies have a fire defense with Smoot, Bailey, and Arrington, but they offense on that game is boo boo. Trung, Gardner, and Ramsey are all boo boo. Their line is boo boo. Without Coles, they are plottin for 5 turnovers a game.

I'm out like Pharell. Peace!

Bamma, I can say he is serious because you give an artist the benefit of the doubt. Don't try to say he wasn't serious just because it sucked fat floppy disc style. Why would this bamma write, produce, sing on key, and perform a song he ain't serious about? Negro where is your evidence? That alone tells me he was serious. When that bamma makes a rap do you question if it's serious? No. I only view a song as not serious when is something like Weird Al or when the singer says, "We were just in the booth joking around and blah blah blah." And I heard or read rappers say that. Now I DID NOT hear or read cuz from Kast saying that; so if he did show me, if not then leave me alone about it. What does the 60's have to do with it? This is at least the 2nd time you mentioned that. So what? As I stated before, Lauryn Hill made a video and it had a 60's vibe to it and she played more than one person (hmm, was cuz bitin'?). She was dead serious about her song (just like he was). The difference is that hers was FLAMES and his was flameless or without flames, Jack. Bamma, my mother lectured me at times when I didn't want to here it and sometimes I actually didn't need to here it. She wasn't perfect, she made mistakes just like everybody else who walked this earth except Jesus Christ. I still love her. Just because it's a lecture, doesn't make it right. First of all, I heard entire Outkast albums, so you are lunchin'. All you did with the Jada (Outkast) speech was confuse a bunch of readers. Get the FLIP OUTTA HERE (FOH) with that. I can here one song by an artist and make a correct statement about it. I can say he has on red shoes. Just because you been liking him since day one, are his shoes not red? But I didn't do that here anyway. I heard plenty of his work so by your logic I can speak on it. I never said anything about him trying to be or not trying to be Luther so FOH with that. I peep how you are still trying to give a brother an argument. No thanks. That's your point of view, but I ain't saying he Luther. I'm saying that bamma is singing and he SEEMS serious to me. Just because you followed his whole career, attended all of his local concerts, voted for him on TRL and would take a slug or two for him doesn't mean YOU can tell me when that man ain't serious. And bamma ain't nobody double talking but you, H2K, Hillshire, Jack. I can tell you what you mean because you actually said it. Whereas with me I never said it, but you, for an unknown reason, thought you could get into the mind of Qool and explain what I meant and thought. Wrong bamma. That's how. That ain't double talk that's common sense. Moving on, saying I know better than anybody does help. How many times must I explain this? For one IT IS THE TRUTH. I think you somewhat agreed with me there. Also, it was to shut up you on what ever you were saying about me. That fact is you can't really speak on what's in my mind, but you continue to tell me that I was lying or you don't believe me. Instead of me saying "I wasn't telling falsehoods" and just leaving it up in the air, I drove any doubt out the window when I said PLUS, I know better than you. See, both of us stated our cases, but only one of those people (me) knew the 100% truth without having to think about it and guess. And why would I lie anyway? Of all things, this? I done admitted defeat about Team 3, The HoopaStars, and The TA Dodgers. Why didn't I just say I took all of those teams to the championship? Why not say, I heard every Outkast song, or that I know plenty of people that hate them bammas? Negro, you ain't nobody I gotta lie to. Don't flatter yourself. Everything you hear from me (with the exception of Beyonce' being my baby's mamma and other jokes) you can take to the bank, Jack. Moving on, your comment was REMOTELY related to the one I mentioned in a pervious post. FOH with that last word garbo. You are the one with a lot of SIS in you. Sisqo, sister, sissy, lol. Moving on, I can't believe I left off my favorite song when I dropped KNOWLES-ledge on Beyonce'. This joint, I think it's called "Yes." That's one of the best on there. I agree sometimes you gotta suffer through the storm. Baby Boy is a song that proves it, because now I can at least tolerate it. Is Sleepy that bald head dude that rolls with Kast? That bamma, lol. Who is cuz? And Bee told me that you and Jay are full of...you know the rest. Moving on, the topic of a song, TO ME, can have something to do with what kind of song it is. If a song praises the Lord, it is Gospel right? If the topic is praising the Lord, where would you put it? All I was trying to say is, that Automobile and Playa Hater talk about aspects that I only hear in hip-hop songs. So I was saying the next time Hey Ya comes on, I'll see if cuz is talking about the same factors. Would it then be hip-hop to me? Hard to say. Right now, it ain't. If it's talking about the mentioned factors, all I can do is reevaluate it. Concerning Jada's Made you Look verse, maybe he didn't have a point. Maybe you're right. I thought he was saying he was one of the best out and don't mess with him...random things like that. But maybe you know better than me; and maybe you know better than Nas too. Man, Madden be cheating. The computer just beat me by about 9 to 28. You're right, the offense is weak, but I'll still send you home with an L just like we gonna give Dallas. And speaking of Dallas, I think football coaches in general get too much credit. I'm not saying Tuna ain't a great coach...why do they call him that? But on that Monday night game when the Cowgirls were playing the Giants, the game was over...almost. If the kicker kicks the ball in the end zone, the game is done times ten. But he does not and as you know NY took an L. During the game, Madden started saying, "This guy can coach, that's all there is to it." No, this bamma lucked up. The next day on ESPN, almost everybody was saying they won the game because "The Tuna" made his team believe and blah blah blah." Now let me give you another example. Same point but different situation. A few years ago, the Redskins were 7 and 6. The year before they had finished the regular season with a 10 and 6 record (like they will this year). After they took L number 6, the owner fired the coach, Norv Turner. We lost AT LEAST 3 games, I think more but AT LEAST 3 on bad field goals. If the kicker makes these kicks or if these shook bammas could snap the ball right, the Skins have a way better record. The 7-6 record wasn't Norv's fault. Maybe cuz was a coach that needed to be fired, but not in the middle of the season. Maybe the kicker should have been fired mid season, not the coach. My point... I think coaches play a huge part in the win or loss category, but they aren't the deciding factor, in my eyes. Especially in basket ball. If you have one good player, you have a nice shot, never mind the coach. Baseball is where you really have to out coach the other coach, but it still comes down on the players making the plays. I think players win or lose the game. A bad fumble or a pick at the right time can turn the game the other way and the coach can't do a thing but look and get cooked. Just like Hill does when it comes to beef.

Since we got on R&B a little, I'll take this time to say I was wrong about Ashanti. Sister, can sing and she is fine now; I don't know what happened, but "Rain On Me" is my song. She SUNG that joint, and Larenze Tate hooked up the video quite nicely. Hillis, Mariah is another who has the looks to match the voice. Alica too. Lastly, anybody hear Jay's new songs? One of them "Change Your Clothes" is another weak song to me, like "Excuse Me Miss." But the other "What More Can I Say" is grade A status.

"Got a new motto this year, "Don't Fuck With My Ones!" knock on your door, three in the mornin, "It's just us and the guns!" - Jay-Z

Look, MORON, you can say he's serious all you want, and you'll still be absolutely wrong. You may have HEARD Outkast albums, but it's quite obvious you haven't LISTENED to them. If you actually LISTENED to them, you'd stop talkin all this stupid shit about him really trying to sing. As a true fan of Outkast, I can't express how idiotic you sound. You are absolutely wrong. I'm sorry, you can come up with all this crappy ass evidence all day, and you'll still be wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about. I ain't even tryin to clown or demean you (at least not on this), but you're just wrong. And the song doesn't suck; YOU just don't like it. The only thing that sucks fat floppy donkey dick is your terrible arguments! Biggie wrote, performed, and sang Playa Hater on key! Automobile was on key! What are you talkin about? DMX, Jada, Nas, 2Pac, have all sang hooks on key before, but you think they go around tellin people how they sound like Marvin Gaye? NEGRO, PLEASE! I enjoy singing songs, too, but when I sing I ain't tryin to be Luther. People sing all the time on songs, and that don't mean they think they sound good or are trying to impress anybody with their R&B lyrics. You're absolutely wrong about Andre 3000 singing on Hey Ya. You can take your obviously HIGHLY LIMITED knowledge of Outkast and throw it out the window because you have been misinformed. Maybe you think hearing a few songs off an album once or twice constitutes LISTENING, but you're sadly mistaken. Anybody who has REALLY LISTENED to Outkast albums before, knows Andre is not trying to impress with his singing. Now a gospel is a special genre, because topic alone makes the song gospel. But goespel is not like rap, r&b, country, alternative, etc. The style comes into play. Topic doesn't. Songs don't have to be about gangsta moves or head to be considered hip hop. If he was rapping, I'd take him serious probably because he's made FOUR ALBUMS and been seriously rapping since 1993, bamma. When he and Big Boi first started singing on Aquemini, I didn't care if he was serious because the songs were tight. On Stankonia, I know he's not serious because of the way he sings. "Slum Beautiful" and "I'll Call Before I Come" proves my point perfectly. And his little singing intro on "The Whole World" proves I'm right, too. So there's my evidence. Actually songs he's done before and actual knowledge of the subject. Again, you only came with highly assumptive nonsense! So, I really don't care how many videos with singing he makes, YOU'RE STILL WRONG!

Bamma, if we both see he has on red shoes, fine, you can say he has on red shoes. La di freakin da! But that's irrelevant. Him having on red shoes is a fact in your example. What we're talking about is your opinion and me knowing the facts. Can I point to where Andre explicitly said one way or the other? No, but neither can you, so that point is moot! What I have is a better knowledge of the artist than you ever will, and I'm tellin you, he's actually wearing blue shoes, dummy!

You ain't got to lie, Craig, you ain't got to lie... Yes, you do! That's the only way you can save face, NICCA! But since you don't believe me, go read The Source's article on Outkast when they gave em 4 mics. They explain it very well so maybe you can learn something, bamma.

You had me rollin on a couple of things you said... That damn Madden be cheatin up a storm! I can't stand when wide open dudes be droppin perfect passes for no reason, or they be comin up with these wack ass fumbles. Plus, I hate how McNabb, McNair, and Culpepper are all slow as hell. Vick is the only mobile QB with any speed! I rarely play the computer because I be too busy battlin my boys, but when I first got it I did. Man I had Philly on All Madden mode and in the first half I was down 28-0 to Green Bay and had already thrown 5 picks! It was some nonsense! I ain't have NO time to set up and make a good throw. So I ain't playin that nonsense no more... "Just because you followed his whole career, attended all of his local concerts, voted for him on TRL and would take a slug or two for him..." Hell, with 2Pac gone, what else was I supposed to do? lol

You like Ashanti's Rain On Me?! So, how did you not like Can I Live by Jay-Z off Reasonable Doubt? The beat is the exact same! Maybe you should give it a re-listen. Now, I agree Norv Turner wasn't the cause of the downfall of the Redskinnies. Y'all had a super nice team that year (except you caught that L to the Tight Titans that year), but Dan Snyder did WAY too much meddling and messed up the karma. Y'all started losing, Dan blamed Norv, fired him, and y'all season slipped away with L after L after L. That was a clear playoff team until Danny Boy f'ed it up. But with a strong presence like Parcells, you don't have to worry about outside distractions. The team is gonna play hard, make minimal mistakes, and hopefully if the talent is decent, you'll win some games. I think ultimately players play the game as well, but if a Dungy, Parcells, Dick Vermeil or a Marvin Lewis comes available, you snatch him up because he'll definitely have those players playing at the next level. Unfortunately for M. Lewis, his squad is supect. Parcells is suspect, too, but they're winning - even though Tampa did em in. Dungy took a weak team, turned em into a contender, and now they're possible Super Bowl favorites. We all know about Vermeil's success as well. So yeah, coaches ain't that instrumental, but there are a few out there who can make a difference from the sidelines and deserve the big bucks and attention.

I'm out like DallASS from Tampa. Peace!

First of all, listening to a track is listening to a track. Save that nonsense you spat about hearing an album once or twice and how it does not constitute listening. Because I listened and heard Outkast. Why is it so hard for you to accept, that this one person just doesn't like them bammas? Why must you rant on and bring up the fact that you know more about them in your attempt to prove that cuz ain't serious? Like I said, we as listeners give the artist the benefit of the doubt. We take it as serious until they say it ain't serious. Don't try to say he ain't for real because the song is stupid. Sounding like or not sounding like Luther has nothing to do with it. R. Kelly doesn't sound like Luther or Ginuwine, but they all sing...seriously! Luther ain't the singer by which all other serious singers are judged anyway. For real YOU just sound clueless when you mention that cuz ain't trying to be Luther. I know this, but that doesn't make him UN-serious. And all you ever do is point out what other people do and what other songs (which happened to be good) I can listen to. But the truth of the matter is, cuz is STILL singing and cuz is still serious, even after I consider the other songs you mention. You can make (corny) jokes, take shots, and whatever else you want, but you yourself can't muster up a reason why I can say "Okay, Hillis knows that cuz ain't serious." You tell me how long you've reped them and you listen to them and love them and if you could you would hug them, and I get the sense that you want to say "I know he is not serious, but I just can't explain it." Well, that's what you might as well say because you have yet to explain it. Try again. You don't care how many videos he makes singing, I'm still wrong? That's what you typed bamma. Does it make sense to you? Did you name those songs with the hope that I would even recognize them and then come around to being on the same page with you? You tell me cuz been seriously rapping for so many years, but you also said he's been singing for a long time. Double talker, you do the math. And bamma I'm not going to go dig up some Source article to read about some bammas I don't even like. LOL, are you serious? You explain your points so well, you give me the gist of it, or scan and copy & paste it. And do I need to explain how I put zero stock into The Source and their 5 mic system? Do you? And like I said, I don't have to lie to you, accept it or stay in denial. Moving on, I never said I didn't like that Jay-Z song. I'm saying I heard the album a long time ago. Maybe around my high school days, and he did say some things I liked, but I remember not liking the CD as a whole. You are probably right, about I would like it because I think you know what types of music I like, but I can't say if I do or don't until I hear it again. Oh yeah, did you catch the song on Beyonce's CD that sounds like "Automobile"? Moving on, is there a way on Madden where you can roll out as the QB before you pass the line of scrimmage? Sometimes as Pat Ramsey, I want to tuck the ball and run for about 20 or 30 yards (like he can do in real life, LOL) but you can't pick up any speed until you pass the line, even if you hit R2. And them stupid fumbles and picks will make you want to turn the game off, take it out of the system and return it to the store. Moving on, I felt you on your theory about coaches. I see what you're (a joke) saying and I guess you are somewhat correct (for a change). Some people will listen to a person like Vermeil or Bill P (why do they call him Tuna), and play with more effort. But I never needed that. I, and I assume other people, don't need a coach or a teacher or anybody, to get up in their face to get them amped and ready to play. But yeah, there are people like that and I guess that's where a popular coach makes his money. But like we both said, players win or lose the game. Lastly, I repeat, the Cowboys won't win that division. Them bammas got the same 5-11 team from last year. The Tuna can't just come in there and make bad players good...can he? Maybe if they get some new players, which I think they will next season, but I'm still not ready to believe in them. What happened to Trife, and H-wood and J-Dolo and 3:16 and the other people? Oh yeah, "L after L after L" had me lol'in but what happened the last time the Loose Titans came to Fed Ex? We X-ed them bammas like our name was DM.

"No more Big Willy, my game is grown, prefer you call me William..." - Jay-Z

Qoolout. Come on now. You know good and well I don't care if you like Outkast and I ain't tryin to "make" you like them. But we can forever go back and forth about Andre 3000 tryin to sing seriously...

Dude, I hope you weren't serious with that R. Kelly and Ginuwine shit. If you were too dumb to understand that Luther was an EXAMPLE then you're simply ridiculous. FUCK OUTTA HERE with R. Kelly and Ginuwine don't sound like Luther! Nigga, I know that! I was usin Luther as an example for a REAL R&B singer who takes his SINGING seriously. Damn, if it helps you, you can switch Luther with Ginuwine, R. Kelly, Jon B, Dave Hollister, Montell Jordan, Brian McKnight, Donnell Jones, Teddy Pendergrass, Keith Sweat, Ron Isley, Tank, Jaheim, Billy Ocean, Marques Houston, D'Angelo - shit, pick any male R&B singer your heart desires! The fact is, all those singers are serious R&B singers. They sound good on songs. People enjoy listening to them because they can really sing. They make R&B albums and soul albums. Do you follow? So all I was saying that Andre 3000 doesn't try to sound like a real R&B singer - not Luther, specifically, jack ass. Anyway, why do you give Weird Al the benefit of the doubt? Since you don't know him personally, you can't say he ain't serious, either! Yeah, he may amuse us, but how do you know it's not inadvertent? You don't know Champ Bailey personally; how do you know he really wants the Redskins to win? In case you ain't know, I'm not really making those stupid ass arguments, but I hope they help you realize how clueless you sound.

You obviously haven't listened to Outkast albums. You're either lying or think listening means having heard them once or twice. You say you ain't got to lie, Craig, so I'll assume the latter. Nothing you have said makes me think you have really listened to an album. You even said yourself you mainly listened to the "BS" on the radio, so why would you be a credible listener? Did I expect you to recognize any of the Outkast songs I mentioned? Absolutely not, because I know you're full of shit, proving my point that you have no idea what you're talking about! Do the math, huh? Fine, see if you can follow: Andre and Big Boi have been rappin since 1993. Seriously rapping. The first song where Andre sang was in 1998 on Aquemini and that was on ONE song whereas the album has 16 tracks. Then on Stankonia in 2000 he sang on FOUR songs, whereas the album had 24 tracks. So my point was that there a more than one song where Andre sings, so I'm not just basing this off Hey Ya (like you), but I actually know other songs where Andre sings and I can assure you he's not serious - hence me bringing them up since you SAY you've "listened" to Outkast's albums (yeah bleepin right). But don't get it twisted - he hadn't sang on but 6 or 7 tracks before The Love Below. That would hardly constitute a serious R&B singer when you have at least 50 songs out there. Bamma. Now, I don't care about The Source and their 5 mic rating system either. I was only pointing out that in their review of Speakerboxxx/Love Below they echo what I say about Andre 3000, and since they have rated all of their albums and probably know him personally, maybe you'd believe them since you cannot comprehend that since I know more about Outkast than you, I'm probably right about Andre 3000. And since all I do is bring up other songs, I'll bring up those same other songs, Automobile and Playa Hater, and by your bamma ass logic, I'll give BIG and Eazy the "benefit of the doubt" and say they really tried to be R&B and country singers seriously and they didn't want them to be hip hop songs "since I haven't heard otherwise" and "don't know them personally." lol... you're a clueless joke!

As usual the thread get hot for a lil minute then it cool off quicker than the Redskins 3-1 start. But if you're gonna clown my Tight Titans at least get it right. The last time we was in Fed Ex, we gave you all a ferocious L in a season of many ferocious Ls. Of course, the last time y'all came in the Coliseum, we caught the L. Except we still made the playoffs. Now Madden be real random with the fumbles, and it pisses me off. They need to fix that nonsense. I was down 28-21 to my boy (he had the freakin Redskins, lol) and I was driving down the field and was SO CLOSE to tying it, but this micky ficky decides to fumble on the 1 yard line! THE ONE YARD LINE!!! Are they serious? That's garbage cause all he had to do was break the plane, and they gon have my man fumble ON THE DAMN ONE YARD LINE!!! Take it back to the store?! Nah, playa. I was bout to get real Office Space on my TV and PS2 and take it out to a field with a bat while ya boys - Geto Boys that is - bump "Still" in the background!

Aiyo, check it, this weekend is gonna be sad for all Wash(ed up)ington fans when them 5-11 C-Boys hand Pat Ham-she a(nother)ferocious L like in the middle of 3W. I never understood why he was The Tuna, but when you win like he does, I guess you can get away with lame nicknames. And if you wanna run on Madden 2004 on the PS2 as the QB but still behind the line, just press L2. I don't know how on any other console. Another thing I hate is when yo offensive tackles just sit there and watch the DE run by and sack you. I could see if he fell or missed, but he just sit there and slide and don't even try to hold or nothin. And it pisses me off cause I don't do nothing cause it looks like he's in position to do SOMETHING but then I get sacked like ole boy wasn't even there! FLIP OUTTA HERE!

Man, I'm gone.

I'm out like bulljive fumbles. Peace!

"This little nigga named Nas thinks he live like me, talkin bout he left the hospital took five like me..." - 2Pac

Since ain't nobody else postin, I guess I'll keep it goin til J-Dolo and H*WOOD find somethin to post about. Shaq and Kobe are feuding again, but this time folks done got personal. I have three theories. 1) they're all just bullshittin to take focus of Kobe's trial, just like when they did all the bullshit arguments during their second championship to get people to underestimate them. 2) Kobe and Phil have a plot to piss Shaq off so he'll play hard through the whole season to prove a point to them; thus they win they championship again because we all know, except for Qool, that Shaq can't be stopped and any team with Shaq playing like his dominant self is guaranteed victory. 3) They're for real. I honestly thinbk it's 1 or 2, but let's say it's 3. I think Shaq is right; it's his team. Still, he ain't got to go around sayin that. If he was a true leader like Jordan, Bird, Bill Russell, Chamberlain or Magic, there would be no need to say anything. He's probably right about Kobe, too, and Kobe took it to harsh. Shaq went off on Kobe over a lil comment, too. Plus, Shaq got way too personal when he told him to opt out. It ain't that serious - the season ain't even started yet! Second, Kobe was absolutely right about Shaq being fat, out of shape, not being a leader, etc. Kobe may not be in the place to say Shaq's unprofessionalism hurt the team last year - I mean, Kobe is the one on trial for rape and cheated on his wife and hurting the team - but he's right. Shaq was fat and lazy all season and waited too long for toe surgery. The only thing is, I think Kobe gave out way too much info when he said Shaq ain't call him over the summer. Unless this is all a show, Kobe shouldn't have put Shaq out there like that. Ain't no need to cry in public cause ya boy or so called boy ain't call you. That's kind of gay.

Qool, since you know journalism, I had a question. I was always told that when something was in quotes, that means the person actually said it. And if something that is quoted is in paranthesis, then that something is referring to something he/she said, but it isn't really what they said. For example: Ted said, "We (the team) need to be crisp (on offense)." So following that example, Ted ACTUALLY said "We need to be crisp" and "the team" and "on offense" was put in by the reporter. Right? So following that example, what do you think it means in a sentence like this: Ted said, "We (need) to be crisp (on) offense as a team. (Coach Smith) told us (we need to) hustle." Now, if we take out the stuff in parenthesis, you get "We to be crisp offense as a team. Told us hustle." But that makes no sense! I see quotes with stuff in parentheses all the time that seem vital to the quote and if left out, the sentence makes NO sense. I usually see it when I'm browsing ESPN or looking in the newspaper. Here's one from ESPN.com:

"Definitely not," Bryant continued. "I know how to play my guard spot. He can worry about the low post, and I'll worry about the [perimeter]."

If perimeter is left off, it looks like Kobe said "I'll worry about the" and we know Kobe wouldn't say nothin that stupid, so why was perimeter in brackets?! I dunno. I was hopin you got some inside knowledge, but if you just as confused as me, then I understand.

I'm out like (the perimeter). Peace!