Suede

Anyone heard Bernard's solo LP? It was so boring and bland I wanted to fling it in the garbage; traded it in for a couple bucks instead.

That said, Head Music was the absolute end for me. It was painfully dull, and the lyrics were so beyond the pale it just seemed ludicrous to keep listening. I tried liking it (in fact I still sort of like Can't Get Enough), but in the end I've lost all affection for them.

Still, I'd probably get the dvd if it wasn't Region 2 encoding.

But I did think them significant. I think they represented a union of 'indie world' and 'media hype' - of alternative and mainstream, more simply - which seems natural now but was genuinely strange then. They did on (retrospectively) a homely scale what Oasis then went and did on an absurd scale. In other words, I think they represent a major stage in The Reclassification Of 'Indie'.

I also think they had good material, and good musicianship. The first LP was a fine debut, but DMS beat it - it was a remarkable record, a masterpiece, within the Suede perspective. If you don't like that 'world' (lyrics, sound etc) then it's just an ugly folly, I daresay, but if you do (as to an extent I did when it came out) it felt like a very major achievement. Better, I'd still say, than Different Class, This Is Hardcore, The Great Escape, Be Here Now and a bunch of other Britpop behemoths. (But not necessarily better than, for instance, Parklife - another record I view as Significant.)

I loved the flashness of Coming Up when it came along in the autumn of 96. You just had to admire Anderson’s survivalist instincts despite it being obvious they were never to be centre stage again. It had a cetain romance about it. They went for that deliberately cold, robotic, and mechanized sound with Head Music but what initially to me sounded brilliant soon wore away after a few weeks – it was the Suede LP that was stranded without context.

Saw them from speaker distance in the 100 club between their first 2 singles at the height of the hype and it was fantastic esp. after spending the summer at lank haired grunge gigs. I remember some of the radio interviews around the time of the DMS release. Brett seemed fucked out of it from the drugs but the album seemed like a strange but necessary anomaly in those last months of 1994 amongst the explosion of jungle, trip hop and Loaded culture. Anderson might have been an asshole but rather him than the whining and supercilious musoness of Butler.

Fave songs: The Chemistry Between Us, Wild Ones,

But THEN I SAW SENSE

I mean, just think of it this way, Brett looked less Instant Decadance than the Manics did. I mean, talk about putting any old clap on and then pretending to be fabulous, lordy.

NICK YOU HAVE NO SENSE.

So what does everyone think of the McAlmont & Butler album then?

Well, he did usually sport a builder's crack, and not to great effect.

Now he looks like Steve Dallas, at least that's funny...

I'm not really overly concerned or critical about the lyrics because they're supposed to be cryptic, OTT and rub people the wrong way. Bernard Butler really poncey and a bit phobic about Suede lifestyle things but he was the one I saw in Hampstead walking away from Diana funeral motorcade passage so perhaps secret royalist/conservative?

The difference between Suede decadence and Ritzy decadence is the former is queerish and the latter reads no books and loves no art.

I knew there was something weird about him, this makes sense (and is very funny)...

They met cos: Brett and Justine were at architecture college and togeth-ah for that duration and decided to form band with Mat, Brett's best friend. Drummers were tried, including Mike Joyce from the Smiths, then they got Simon and stuck with him. Bernerd was thrown up by a Melody Maker advert. Rule A is that the last one in on the advert is always the first one chucked. Ally, you won't like this but they wrote a great big long letter to Nick asking for their great hero Momus' verdict on their stuff; he wrote a sniffy one back saying they were so mediocre they'd be massive. Justine left band after leaving Brett for Demon Allbran.

Justine should've just stayed in Suede, she'd probably be better off.

Haven’t liked an album since Coming Up. Wonder if I will like this.

frankly shocked by how good this is.

On the first listen, I'm not really connecting to it except for Trance State. But that often happens on first listens of new Suede.

The past 2 albums they really have been locking into the short, sharp, post-punk guitars. Right when I was really loving the more keyboard-driven orchestral sounds of The Blue Hour and Night Thoughts. Maybe I need to let go of the expectation that they'll go back to that style. And try to appreciate what they're doing now. (Just as I type that, June Rain came on, which is more of the big, orchestral keyboard-driven Suede I love again, so there's hope!)

I'm hoping it will click with repeated listens. One of the songs really reminded me of Kae Tempest's Diagnoses, which is a good sign.

Seems alright. Totally bewildered by the 5 star reviews of this and Autofiction though

I absolutely love Autofiction and have high hopes for this new one, based on the feedback here (mostly Ned and Joan Crawford tbh).

I thought Autofiction was their worst record so far. Not my cup of tea at all.

Despite low expectations, I was really into the singles Disintegrate and Trance State, but then the Europeans one was ruined by a truly awful chorus.

I would be surprised if this were any better or worse overall than Autofiction, but I'm only hearing good things about it, and the singles are supposed to be among the weaker tracks, so let's find out!

Will probably buy it over the weekend. I have loved this band for a long time but I've been finding things to grumble about with them for just as long (I was describing My Insatiable One as overrated back in 1992), so will report back.

this album completely knocked me over this morning. still feeling the effects at the end of the day. it's so complete, such a journey - it works in a way nothing has in a long while -- and I'm a big fan of Coming Up. but this really has a cohesion that's rare for me

gotta give this a listen. bummed I missed the 2022 tour. I saw them on their first US tour (with the Cranberries!) and they were so amazing.

Album's pretty great! It's definitely got some Furs/Bunnymen vibes, but it's also really muscular, which requires a bit of endurance. Just one track after the next, bam bam bam, like punches to the face (in the best way).

This band is so good. Back in the UK are they still considered top tier? Because what a gift to have this band not just back in action but still in such strong form.

I guess it depends on how top tier is defined these days but in terms of veteran bands they've had the red carpet rolled out for them for sure at this point -- tons of major features and high profile gigs and etc. Oasis and Coldplay may suck the air out of the room on the arena level, say, but they're not *not* there in the conversation from what I can sense.

Ned, I didn’t know you lived in the UK!

I'm not sure what 'top tier' means in this context. In terms of selling tickets? In terms of critical appeal?

They're not the kind of band that would sell out a week at Wembley. But they can take over the entire Southbank Centre for a week and sell that out. (I think Suede have always been quite smart in playing venues slightly too small for them, which increases demand and makes gigs feel more exciting.) And 'Southbank centre' is a good measure of the quality of critical appreciation they get. They have definitely attained a 'national treasure' status. They get features in broadsheets with good arts coverage. But not necessarily omnipresent tabloid wallpapering.

I'm still undecided about the album. Another set of listens had me wondering 'have Suede changed or have my tastes just changed?' So I went back and listened to The Blue Hour, and I was immediately sucked back in and immersively overwhelmed and 'oh yes yes favourite band, alltime!' So this is definitely not a 'Suede suck now ugh' complaint, but more 'what is this longterm fan missing, that everyone is raving about on this album?'

Maybe it's that 'muscularity' of the guitars that is failing to connect. It's very 'back to basics' and a lot of twin-guitars only arrangements. When what really got me about The Blue Hour and Night Thoughts was the maturity and range of the orchestral arrangements and the spoken word soundart bits. Where this album is really just pulling back to be a 2-guitars postpunk rock band. All that angularity.

Yeah, which seems to be by design, of course. Also, Brett's lower range (less yelp, more bark) maybe lends itself well to these kind of raw guitar arrangements?

And yeah, top tier as in ticket sales and appeal, yeah. It's hard for me to tell where they stand. because they seem to pick venues strategically. Where does a band like James play these days?

Not too sure about the new album yet (my expectations are getting a bit like when the Manics do a new album), but I'm now seeing them in February - finally - so it'll have the time it needs to sink in.

It's at the Bristol Beacon, incidentally, and tickets didn't sell out immediately. Unlike Pulp/Blur/Wasis their stock with people my age is relatively low. I don't really know anyone under, say, 40 who cares about them too much, besides myself.

Ned, I didn’t know you lived in the UK!

Roffle. Hardly, I’m in SF. But I’m pretty plugged in to The State Of Suede As Such by default at this point.

So this is definitely not a 'Suede suck now ugh' complaint, but more 'what is this longterm fan missing, that everyone is raving about on this album?'

I think this is exactly where I'm at, although I was enjoying Antidepressants a bit more today. I really enjoyed Bloodsports, Night Thoughts and The Blue Hour, although all of them had their imperfections. I was quite surprised to see Autofiction get so much love, I feel it is perfectly OK but has too much of this kind of lumpen neo-Suede rocker stuff like '15 Again' and 'That Boy On The Stage - or 'Like Kids' from a couple of albums back. Or the Brian Molko-tier stuff like "will you be my personality disorder" (good riff, though). The new album definitely feels like a more melodic (and superior) take on Autofiction, but the idea that they are gold-level Suede has flown completely over my head. And it's a bit of a shame to be left out. :(

Brett's lower range (less yelp, more bark) maybe lends itself well to these kind of raw guitar arrangements?

this is a big part of it for me -- he's leaning into how he sounds now. I honestly have had plenty of the old Brett -- his mature voice on this really connects with me, I like the melodies, i like how propulsive the record is overall

Where does a band like James play these days?

This year’s US tour is generally in 1200-1800 cap rooms. Suede’s co-headline with the Manics varied from 1000-2800, from a quick look.

I meant back in the UK.

New album rules.

I'm also seeing them in Bristol in February lol xps

I feel it is perfectly OK but has too much of this kind of lumpen neo-Suede rocker stuff like '15 Again' and 'That Boy On The Stage - or 'Like Kids' from a couple of albums back. Or the Brian Molko-tier stuff like "will you be my personality disorder" (good riff, though). The new album definitely feels like a more melodic (and superior) take on Autofiction, but the idea that they are gold-level Suede has flown completely over my head. And it's a bit of a shame to be left out. :(

Yeah this really sums it up for me. But it's also why I prefer Dog Man Star to Coming Up. I like their Scott Walker meets Crass material more than the short, sharp, post-punk blasts.

I liked the second half of Autofiction more than the first - Drive Myself Home and the the run from It's Always The Quiet Ones to Turn Off Your Brain And Yell. And I think to make a more compact, focused, melodic album, the left off the bits of Suede that I am most attracted to, which is the meandering, weird Suede.

I meant back in the UK.

ah! well, you can probably look it up next time you have five minutes on a bus.

True, I'm just not familiar enough with venue capacities there, so if, say, Suede were indeed strategically playing venue slightly too small for them, there's no way for me to know that.

I don’t know the capacity of every venue in the UK, I just Google ‘[venue.name] capacity -ai’ and it tells me!

My observation that they’re playing venues slightly too small for them comes from a) how quickly they sell out b) how crowded it feels at the gigs and c) the fact that they copped to doing this previously on tours where they were trying to build hype

I don't disbelieve you at all, I just meant that if I saw Suede was playing a (I dunno) 3000 person venue in the UK, I wouldn't know if that was too small for them or the right fit. For comparison, James is playing Brooklyn Steel tomorrow. That venue is 1800, which seems about right for James in America. But would 1800 be too small for James in the UK? No idea.

James recently played near me in Cardiff Castle (with Shed Seven supporting lol)

Capacity is about 9K/10K but no idea if it sold out

For comparison The National, Pet Shop Boys, Fontaine's DC, Sting, The Human League, Primal Scream and Elbow have also all played there in the last year or two

i'm just repeating the "ooh there are occasional post-punk textures on this thing" observation, but it is nice for a suede album to remind me of the chameleons and comsat angels

Ha, yeah, someone in one of the fan groups posted the cover of Strange Times as a reference the other day, rightly.

yeah, otm, it's really in that wheelhouse.

The album is starting to click for me, with repeated listens. Headphones really helped. Listening to what the guitars are actually doing. Hearing the fine grain of the 'post-punk textures' - there's a lot more going on in the guitar department than just thrashing and angularity

There's a lot of chorus on the guitars as well as just distortion which comes through nicely on headphones

"Disintegrate" kind of reminds me (the music not vox obv) of later period Rush, like I could hear it on Clockwork Angels or something

I've u-turned hard on this album now and love it. For a phone-shot video, this is absolutely incredible. Captures Suede at their live best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY2ksIuZEhM

Ugh, people who stand down the front and film the whole gig on their phones are a PLAGUE and should be taken out back and shot (and also are completely contrary to Suede's entire message which is 'put down your phone and live in the moment')

BUT LAST NIGHT WAS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. Old men at the top of their game! The lights went down and this faint ominous thudding started, got louder and louder, really menacing sounding in a kind of We Are The Pigs way. Until the band came out and it morphed into Disintegrate - which is absolutely apocalyptic live! Those moments where the thrash of the music stops and Brett gets the entire hall to sing 'come down and disintegrate with me!' - their lyrics often look meaningless when written down, but the way he sings them and gets 1000s of people to chant along is something really powerful.

Good mixture of new material, Ver Hitz!!! and some real deep cuts. (Crackhead! Killing of a Flash Boy! This Time) I will never not sing along to Trash or Metal Mickey.

They really need to get Brett a cordless mic for the moments when he decides to go walkabout. It's fun that he still does it, and those moments of personal connection feel so meaningful. (he is still very, very cute when he smiles that little boy smile.) But I was right in the 4th row and that cable gets really really dangerous when it starts snaking around through the seats.

It's cheeky tho, that they've nicked the Crass logo for their new T-shirt design. I kept doing double takes seeing extremely un-Crass looking people wearing what looked like Crass T-shirts. (I know Brett is a huge fan, but there's not much of an overlap in the fanbase.)

The Fash had mostly dispersed by the time I got to the SBC apartment from a few straggling drunks dressed up like football louts

But it still felt weirdly Suede in an odd way, picking your way through a litter of broken England flags to get to the gig

Extraordinary again tonight.