I don't remember anyone using it in the first place, it was called post-hardcore in the UK if it was called anything. Or "Arsequake" (no-one apart from a couple of MM journos ever actually used that one though tbh).
xpost
― Matt #2, Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:48 (fourteen years ago) link
The mention of Lubricated Goat brought a couple of other bands to mind that may or may not rise to pigfuck level. I speak of King Snake Roost & Feedtime, who's 'Shovel' LP was one of my faves of the '80s. Perhaps one could even stretch the pigfuck [a phrase I'd never have guessed I would type] definition to fit Thug.
― ImprovSpirit, Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:49 (fourteen years ago) link
(e_3) speaks with great wisdom. It really IS a feeling. (e_3) is Pigfuck Buddha.
― ImprovSpirit, Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:50 (fourteen years ago) link
speaking of georgia bands, one unsung pigfuck mover & shaker was laura carter of the bar-b-q killers and jack*o*nuts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVV9P-MWNZA
there's even a pig in this video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjQRmRF8a2w
― (e_3) (Edward III), Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:52 (fourteen years ago) link
o thanks improvspirit... here's a zenlike post I made on that other thread
Big Stick - big wigs will never be pigfuckFeedtime - borderline, too much rock, not enough scuzzPhantom Tollbooth - too indieAmor Fati - see aboveHead of David - yes yes yesYoung Gods - respected but not acceptedEinsturzende Neubauten - kissing cousinProng - too many riffs, not enough scuzz, if ted parsons wasn't their drummer they wouldn't even be on this listThe Accused - hardcoreThe Scientists - early stuff no, but once kim salmon decided he was going to out cave nick cave circa human jukebox, yesCouch Flambeau - you can't be pigfuck with a french word in your band nameRancid Vat - harcoreAntiseen - hardcore
and y'all forgot blacksnakes, king snake roost, of cabbages & kings, dig dat hole
― (e_3) (Edward III), Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:54 (fourteen years ago) link
Or "Arsequake" (no-one apart from a couple of MM journos ever actually used that one though tbh).
And it's possible no one apart from a couple Village Voice journos ever actually used "pigfuck". (I'd be curious if anybody knows any instances of it showing up in other publications in the late '80s. Though maybe a couple bands may've complained about being called that, in interviews.)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:57 (fourteen years ago) link
"When was it revived? Just a few years ago, right? Basically, around the time this thread was first started? Seems like over a decade went by when nobody used it at all.)"
i started noticing all the revival bands around 2005/6 (and there was a decibel review in 2006 that brought up the old stuff in a review of new stuff)
the nu-pigfuck
― scott seward, Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:58 (fourteen years ago) link
I like the distinction somebody made on the other best pigfuck thread about how euro-noise groups like einsturzende couldn't be considered pigfuck because they didn't want to be american (which is why b party is considered pigfuck)
other second tier players that haven't been mentioned maybe
the honeymoon killers (pg side project)drunktankblue (they were from philly, awesome + totally unsung, I think ian digs them too)the bastards
― (e_3) (Edward III), Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:59 (fourteen years ago) link
Touch&Go's 1986 comp God's Favorite Dog is like the pigfuck Old Testament: Butthole Surfers, Big Black, Scratch Acid, Killdozer, Happy Flowers & Hose (lol Hose).
we ended up calling all this stuff 'grunge' before Grunge came along. didn't hear 'pigfuck' until the Spin Alt Record Guide or somewhere in the 90s
― nuttin doin (herb albert), Thursday, 13 May 2010 18:59 (fourteen years ago) link
i thought pigfuck was perfect way back when cuz killdozer always reminded me of the hicks in deliverance. that whole jordan, minnesota/crazy dan/nick cave sothern gothic thing. even killdozer's song about flannery o'connor! faux redneck stuff.
― scott seward, Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:03 (fourteen years ago) link
I just did a Google Books search for the word in Spin, and I don't know how conclusive these results are, but the earliest issue showing up with it in it are both from 1996, a Girls Against Boys review by Eric Weisbard: "...signing to Chicago's Touch and Go (bastion of artcore guitars and post-Big Black 'pigfuck impurism)...," and a Jeff Salamon review of Frank Blank that ends with the word, though I'm not sure that one even has anything to do with the genre at all.
http://books.google.com/books?id=JheoECFjDqMC&pg=PA106&dq=pigfuck&rview=1&cd=15#v=onepage&q=pigfuck&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=td2yO_T3DPEC&pg=PA89&dq=pigfuck&rview=1&cd=26#v=onepage&q=pigfuck&f=false
― xhuxk, Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:06 (fourteen years ago) link
pigfuck is like poetry, I know it when I see it.
and I'd argue that big black were pigfuck because they possessed the ugly american spirit. although they were sonically influenced by precision tech-mech stuff like gang of four and killing joke, their lyrical content, image, and general stance was verrry pigfuckian. midwestern, hog killer to the world attitude. fascinated with the dark side of macho, with blood + seediness, a tabloid journalist eye. and if you don't think albini appreciated boogie then you never heard rapeman's cover of zz top's "just got paid".
― (e_3) (Edward III), Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:07 (fourteen years ago) link
grunge, sludge, yeah all those terms were in play too
― (e_3) (Edward III), Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:08 (fourteen years ago) link
and as usual scott otm
xxxp
― (e_3) (Edward III), Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:10 (fourteen years ago) link
xp And yeah, the word gets a mention in Spin Alternative Guide too, from 1995, Ivan Kreilkamp writing about Big Black: "Racer X...was one of the records that inspired Robert Christgau to coin a new genre term, 'pigfuck,' to describe the luridly transgressive stance of a group of like-minded independent guitar bands including Big Black, early Sonic Youth, the Butthole Surfers, and Pussy Galore."
― xhuxk, Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:10 (fourteen years ago) link
Early use of the word grunge to describe what we are basically calling pigfuck :
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t6Gs_TbZqnY/Rj3QITuD4oI/AAAAAAAAALk/_A3IptEQRc8/s320/gods+of+grunge+cover.jpg
― Matt #2, Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:12 (fourteen years ago) link
"Grunge" had been in use to describe loud dirty rock all the way back to the '70s, though.
That Google book search is showing "pigfuck" once in The Wire in 2001, too, referring to the Butthole Surfers. But after those couple '95/'96 usages, it pretty much disappears in all the publications that are being searched (not just Spin but CMJ, etc.) until 2005 or so.
― xhuxk, Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:16 (fourteen years ago) link
you can call them noiserock, but everyone who doesn't have it still needs to pick up that awesome grong grong reissue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D2nzNrFNv4
― scott seward, Thursday, 13 May 2010 19:18 (fourteen years ago) link
Wow! I was considering mentioning Art Phag! I have that hand-painted record they did & it STILL smells like paint...
Thanks for the BBQ Killers mention! They were amazing. Laura was an excellent, WAY over-the-top frontperson.
― ImprovSpirit, Thursday, 13 May 2010 21:24 (fourteen years ago) link
I have PF in a semi rural / anti urban setting. Anti indie but with a total insider knowledge. Patronising farmers and mechanics from your fucking artschool― Fer Jessie the Drunk Dutch Mountain Ark (Mobbed Up Ping Pong Psychos)
― Fer Jessie the Drunk Dutch Mountain Ark (Mobbed Up Ping Pong Psychos)
i thought pigfuck was perfect way back when cuz killdozer always reminded me of the hicks in deliverance. that whole jordan, minnesota/crazy dan/nick cave sothern gothic thing. even killdozer's song about flannery o'connor! faux redneck stuff.― scott seward
― scott seward
big black were pigfuck because they possessed the ugly american spirit. although they were sonically influenced by precision tech-mech stuff like gang of four and killing joke, their lyrical content, image, and general stance was verrry pigfuckian. midwestern, hog killer to the world attitude. fascinated with the dark side of macho, with blood + seediness, a tabloid journalist eye. ― (e_3) (Edward III)
― (e_3) (Edward III)
― contenderizer, Thursday, 13 May 2010 21:36 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVKW3pjcI_g
Where is the love for Bastard Kestrel?
― Vision Creation Mansun (NickB), Thursday, 13 May 2010 21:54 (fourteen years ago) link
UK pigfuck was a whole different ballgame, if it even existed. Head Of David seemed to take most of their lyrical inspiration from the US (second hand refractions of Big Black et al really), who else was there? Silverfish?
― Matt #2, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:13 (fourteen years ago) link
Fifty Tons Of Black Terror (if they weren't too late in the game)?
Or maybe some of the bands mentioned on this thread?:
Bogshed - kings of swing: discuss
― xhuxk, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:20 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah Silverfish for sure. Also maybe some of the other Wiija/lurch stuff eg Terminal Cheesecake, Headcleaner...
― Vision Creation Mansun (NickB), Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:21 (fourteen years ago) link
The Janitors, Meat Whiplash, Slaughter Joe? (Not sure about those last two, who at least have pigfuckish names, but the Janitors were definitely doing the yokels getting murdered the backwoods schtick.)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Headbutt, Pitchfork Skyscraper, Sun Carriage...these bands always used to support far superior American bands in London in the early 90s.
― Matt #2, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:27 (fourteen years ago) link
i was fond of the first couple silverfish things. still feel like i need to dig deeper into australia's 80's noiserock stuff. been listening to grong grong and x and feedtime so much this year.
this is kinda interesting, even if it isn't all pigfuck/noiserock stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhfYab0VvcA
"OzObscurist — September 01, 2009 — 80s Australia had a very active scuzzy guitar proto-grunge-thing, but due to cultural cringe and general apathy, has mostly been given away, and in need of restoration. Many who were there consider grunge (both the word's application to music and the sound itself) an Australian invention. This has currency for several reasons. Legendary Oz bands like Box of Fish and Beasts of Bourbon used "grunge" as early as 83, and Mark Arm-founder of Mudhoney and oft credited as the first to (self-)describe music as grunge-, acknowledged bands like "King Snake Roost, The Scientists, Salamander Jim, and Beasts of Bourbon" as using it first, or atleast loosely part of a scene in which the word was used. These Oz groups, among others, are also touted as major influences by the Seattle grungers, and were supported by labels like AmRep and Sub Pop in the face of the wider Oz music industry's neglect."
― scott seward, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Also Jacob's Mouse iirc? xp
― Vision Creation Mansun (NickB), Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:33 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q65koj0fnA
^ Scott, do you know these guys?
― Vision Creation Mansun (NickB), Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:36 (fourteen years ago) link
still like chuck's "sasquatch rock" better than "grunge".
― scott seward, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:37 (fourteen years ago) link
don't know fungus brains. will listen!
oh and that oz youtube thing is this:
1. Grong Grong - "Poor Herb"2. The Poofters - "Wipe Out Yoor Whole Family"3. Bushpig - "Rorting About"4. No More Bandicoots - "Baby Botswana"
― scott seward, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:38 (fourteen years ago) link
Fungus Brains were an offshoot of Dugald Mackenzie's Sick Things so part of the same Melbourne thing as Venom P Stinger.
― Vision Creation Mansun (NickB), Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:43 (fourteen years ago) link
So what was the relationship between those Oz bands and all the post-Birdman quasi-Detroit ones (Celibate Rifles, Lime Spiders, Died Pretty, New Christs, etc.)? Were they two different scenes? I definitely associated the Scientists with those bands at the time, and probably Feedtime too, but I was in Michigan. (Also, the Scientists went through so many changes in their sound, from post-Birthday Party psychobilly to way lighter powerpop, it was hard to figure out where they belonged.)
And again, people like Lester Bangs used "grunge" pretty often in Creem in the '70s (I used it in a Voice review of the Ramones' Too Tough To Die in '84, and I wasn't being original.) So it's not that weird that a bunch of bands would claim it in '83. (Though yeah, when I first heard Skin Yard/Melvins/Green River/U-Men etc. in '86 or so, I was calling that Seattle stuff Bigfoot Rock.)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:44 (fourteen years ago) link
Well, come to think of it, I guess it would make sense that Australia would have both a post-Radio Birdman scene and a post-Birthday Party scene. Though I'm betting they crossed paths a lot. (Unless, say, one was limited to Sydney and the other to Melbourne, or something.)
― xhuxk, Thursday, 13 May 2010 22:50 (fourteen years ago) link
Trying to think who the points of connection would be, but it beats me. There's definitely a difference in stuff like the Celibate Rifles (non-pigfuck) and the Cosmic Psychos (uber-pigfuck) though.
― Vision Creation Mansun (NickB), Thursday, 13 May 2010 23:01 (fourteen years ago) link
grong grong were heavily influenced by the birthday party and the australian x. and american bands like flipper. i think there really were different camps. though probably everyone liked, you know, the stooges and stuff. mc5.
― scott seward, Thursday, 13 May 2010 23:04 (fourteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wE5i4chtos
^ actually maybe they're not scuzzy enough but has there been a more pigfuck video? (nsfw btw)
― Vision Creation Mansun (NickB), Thursday, 13 May 2010 23:05 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm glad someone fondly remembers Silverfish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhxiewNTAEI
― i'm a desperate bicycle (leavethecapital), Thursday, 13 May 2010 23:20 (fourteen years ago) link
blue (they were from philly, awesome + totally unsung, I think ian digs them too)― (e_3) (Edward III)
awesome band! picked up a copy of their solid state lp a while back. singer's got a weird, nasally voice, reminiscent of reverb motherfuckers guy (and steel pole bath tub guy), but nerdier and sometimes quite annoying. paint peeling guitar noise redeems everything, though. woozy druggy and not consistently harsh/fucked-up enough to really square w pigfuck in my book, but def worth a listen. features an epic, super psychedelic cover of brian wilson's "baby let your hair grow long".
also u-men
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWxS48yOwfI&feature=related
bad vid, but they're not well documented
― contenderizer, Thursday, 13 May 2010 23:35 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah, love blue. I've got two of the demo tapes they released in the early 90s. I should dig 'em out and upload, here's a track from one for the curious.
http://www.mediafire.com/?122dygmyqg0
― (e_3) (Edward III), Friday, 14 May 2010 01:44 (fourteen years ago) link
fungus brains getting reissued on load records is what I heard
― bandcamper van beethoven (Edward III), Saturday, 28 May 2011 19:04 (thirteen years ago) link
That is a fine act of human kindness
― immer wieder, ralf & günther (NickB), Saturday, 28 May 2011 19:41 (thirteen years ago) link