I know that it's been through the consumerist mill and therefore I can take that into account in listening, therefore I don't have to treat it with any exaggerated respect that might get in the way of my loving it or taking part in it. I can get my claws in and tear it open and build myself a nest inside and make up my own ideas about what it means, and who for. All of that fuss and bother happened so that I could have a relationship with this one song! It's pretty beautiful, when you think about it.
Also, dudes, it just sounds better.
― except she got a little more ass (cis), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:09 (seventeen years ago) link
still not really sticking up for r'n'b with this tho'... main difference with nu-soul (I think that's what ILM calls it ;) ) stuff is it doesn't have the _steel_ in the production which I suspect also helps to dehumanize the lyrics for a lot of people.
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link
The probable reason why more people don't confess to being lukewarm about contemporary R&B is fear of the racist card being played.
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― except she got a little more ass (cis), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link
haha this is so ridiculously otm and also the entire text of an entirely separate email discussion i've been having today!!!!
― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― except she got a little more ass (cis), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:23 (seventeen years ago) link
I disagree.
What matters is what the LISTENER gets out of the end product, regardless of what the artist put into it, and the process by which s/he did so.
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― except she got a little more ass (cis), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link
haha, sophie h
― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link
When I listen to "Good Vibrations" I don't think about Mike Love flicking wet towels at the back of Brian's head, nor of the state of Brian's mind at the time.
When I listen to "Be My Baby" I don't think about its singer being kept a prisoner in her own home by the guy who produced the record.
You impose your own interpretation of what these records mean as combinations of sounds, as unions of words and music, so subjectively it doesn't matter how much blood was spilt in their making.
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link
I'm not sure it matters to me anymore that I don't like much new club dance music tho this was bothering me for some time.
Doglatin's posts still kinda depress me tho.
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:31 (seventeen years ago) link
Me too. Absolutely without question.
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:32 (seventeen years ago) link
you do both. it depends on the context in which you hear the record. if you hear eg 'stars are blind' on the radio without knowing who is singing it, obv you will hear it is a good/bad record and this reaction will be 100% divorced from your sense of who paris hilton is. but that's NOT the way we hear most records - with most of them, even if we're not coming at it with the pre-listening baggage of what we think of paris hilton as a celebrity, we will be coming at it with some...expectation which has nothing to do with the actual sound. this could be "last time i heard this artist hey sounded like this" or "last time i read about this artist she was splitting up with her boyfriend" or "what i've heard about this album makes me excited to hear it" or...any amount of information which is already in our brains about anything to do with the product.
― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― just say no to individuality (fandango), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:38 (seventeen years ago) link
but surely when you see Brian perform Smile you're influenced by knowing what went before?
If Syd Barrett had decided to release a record 5 year ago wouldn't you approach it with more than "I wonder if Syd's new record's any good" in your head.
When you reviewed Aerial didn't you have "12 years in the making" in your head as you played it for the first time?
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:44 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:45 (seventeen years ago) link
totally true.
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:46 (seventeen years ago) link
If I'm aware of what went into a record I can't ignore that when I hear the record.
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:47 (seventeen years ago) link
By 'these records' do you mean those two specific records, or records of their type which in your opinion are Great, or all records?
I don't think about the artist story behind each record (I have real problems with relating songs to a person's private life), that's not what I meant, I'm sorry I was confusing. It's just that I don't find the process which goes into producing a manufactured-pop record any more distracting than the process than goes into a different record; knowledge of the existence of both affects my listening, and I know it, and I'm fine with that. In fact I often find it less distracting with manufactured pop, because it's overt, it's not a shimmer at the corner of your eye that disappears and reappears when you turn your head.
xposts i know fandango! it's weird and wrong and confusing, but to me it doesn't appear backwards!
― except she got a little more ass (cis), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:49 (seventeen years ago) link
Anyway, I am actually, honestly, very happy indeed with my musical tastes and attitudes: I don't think there's anything that sucks about them.
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 7 September 2006 15:02 (seventeen years ago) link
this is why I make it a point not to read interviews before I hear someone's music for the first time. I don't need to know anything about them or how the record was made in order to find out whether I like it or not. it's better to approach new art with a completely open mind if at all possible.
― guanoman (mister the guanoman), Thursday, 7 September 2006 15:05 (seventeen years ago) link
same here! there isn't anything i won't listen to. i love listening. i am always constantly amazed and surprised by stuff at the ripe old age of 37 going on 38. i am open to anything. i will end up liking m.ward and wilco someday. actually, i don't have anything against m.ward either. just not very exciting to me. i poke fun at the guys at the record store cuz they are always listening to those dreary guys. iron&wine, buckner, ward, ad infintum. they have their place! like when i'm record shopping.
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 September 2006 15:14 (seventeen years ago) link
(Sorry).
Re: current discussion. I think one of the problems with being a massive music fan is that it can be hard to step away from the picture and listen to music on its own merits. The first single I ever bought when I was 9 years old was Pat'n'Mick's "Shake Your Party Down" (or something). I didn't know it was a cover version. I didn't know who Pat Sharp was other than he presented "Fun House" on CITV. I had no idea who Mick Brown was either. I just liked the songs. Since then I've become increasingly addicted to music. I have also learnt a bunch of instruments and music programs. I know how much effort it is to try and form a band and write decent songs that don't suck and therefore my respect for the creative and musical processes increases. It was only, for instance, that someone pointed out to me the exact scope of Brian Wilson's genius that I began appreciating the Beach Boys and learning about the different thought processes and conflicts going on on each album. Previous to that I'd seen them as a cheesy worthless 60's boyband with a couple of silly tunes about surfing.
― wogan lenin (dog latin), Thursday, 7 September 2006 15:40 (seventeen years ago) link
― wogan lenin (dog latin), Thursday, 7 September 2006 15:42 (seventeen years ago) link
― marbles (marbles), Thursday, 7 September 2006 15:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 September 2006 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:33 (seventeen years ago) link
Also, not listening to "pop" does NOT = listening to fucking emo, are you 9?!
― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 7 September 2006 16:59 (seventeen years ago) link
so authenticity comes in the middle of the night, while you're sleeping, and you wake up finding its sticky traces in the sheets?
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 7 September 2006 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 7 September 2006 17:04 (seventeen years ago) link
yeah. actually.
― marbles (marbles), Thursday, 7 September 2006 17:53 (seventeen years ago) link
Was that at me? I can't see anything else that it might reference on here. It wasn't what I meant, I literally just wondered if cis was singling "pop" as a genre out for overproduction or cynicism or whatever. A lot of people do
― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 7 September 2006 17:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:38 (seventeen years ago) link
-- The Lex (alex.macpherso...), September 7th, 2006."
He's PROUD to not have any idea who David Byrne is! I guess "willful ignorance" is not a "personal attitude."
― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 7 September 2006 21:25 (seventeen years ago) link
Fuck, I'd be glad not to know who David Byrne is!
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 September 2006 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 7 September 2006 21:41 (seventeen years ago) link