smashing pumpkins -- pisces iscariot: classic or dud?

this shit couldn't even keep my attention when i was super-into this band, and that was like 13 years ago

To me SP is a very good singles band (maybe a couple non-singles like "Mayonnaise"), but everything else is completely disposable. But then I haven't heard this AMAZING ALBUM THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE MY LIFE FOREVER

it's probably not going to change your life forever, but it's the best smashing pumpkins album

interesting. I remember middling reviews at the time, which is why i never bothered buying it.

Did "Eye" ever show up on an album?

Nope, just the hits album.

I say classic, if only for "Starla", "Obscured", "Frail and Bedazzled" and "La Dolly Vita".

hey, the 1st thread I ever posted to...:)

absolute classic...pumpkins at their most lo-fi & hookah-woozy. even the RAWKers sound dreamy...Frail & Bedazzled and Hello Kitty Kat are absolute classics...as well as Obscured, Plume, Whir, Starla, La Dolly Vita, Spaced...

After having given it some thought, I kind of see where sundar was going with his initial post. Pet Sounds is a concept album about the innocence of childhood is it not? and the struggle to preserve it. A lot of these songs are about the same thing but updates the context for the grunge era (=world not just perplexing but also hostile). Example: Frail and Bedazzled sounds to my ears like it tells the story of a young boy going through a painful divorce. I don't know if this makes PI peculiar in the Pumpkins' catalogue; preserving one's innocence in a hostile world is pretty much a trademark theme for Corgan's songs.

Whatever. Best Pumpkins album, fer sure.

...a young boy getting divorced from his child bride. now that is some hard-hitting material, bro.

LOL yeah, i'm a moron...the divorce is his parents' obv.

hey abbott: they're using 'eye' for the watchmen (?? i think?? i was watching a whole bunch of previews on hulu).

also: curtis' description of PI otm

Not "Eye" -- the slow version of "The End is the Beginning" etc.

duh i'm an idiot - for some reason i always get those two songs mixed up

i think 'eye' is on rotten apples?

eye is on the lost highway sdtrk, i think

this is on my top 15 alltime albums list...PI's only flaw = no drown or glynis

I really can't believe I've only now actually sat down and listened to this album - good lord is it great. Starla! Pissant! Everything else! Great great great, and a huge treat. I love getting around to good albums by beloved bands fairly late, it's like this surprise treasure trove.

I had forgotten this even existed. Will definitely give it a try.

yea this album is a comforting thing for me. i put it on sundays sometimes when you need that caress followed by asskicking to shake off the saturday [soothe frailandbedazzled]

listening to this jam atm

got me a raygun, got me an altitude

this was either fourth I think on my all-time metal ballot

either

I was full of shit five years ago btw...Soma is a classic song; there's quite a few of those on SD (other ones: Quiet, Rocket, Today, Hummer). I still don't like Cherub Rock or Disarm or Spaceboy/Silverfuck, but that still leaves enough on SD to make up a pretty decent album...

has anyone heard the bonus disc? is it worth checking out?

Its definitely worth checking out, there's a lot of great stuff. However, if you were an obsessive back in the 90s, there isn't a whole ton of new material. It's cleaned up and much cripser than the original demos that were floating around (Real Time demos, the WZRD stuff, etc). You've got the "Cinnamn Girl", "Jackie Blue", and "Venus in Furs" covers, cleaned up "By June", "Glynis" (from No Alternative), and other pretty well shared stuff. The only real revelation to my ears was the 15 minute studio demo, "Why Am I So Tired", which sounds great.

Pitchfork's review is, er, smashing.

lol, it is great to see people still stanning for the classic material despite the trainwreck the band is now.

I totally need to get this

"Whirl" is the one that most impressed me today.

It's definitely not up there with Gish, Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness, but then I wouldn't have ever expected it to be. It's definitely as far from dud as you can possibly get without reaching classic.

Got my copy earlier in the week, will be giving it all a proper ear this weekend. The cassette demo's good fun to see.

bummer there isn't more siamese dream outtake material, like cleaned up versions of some of those demos that leaked a few years ago. the heavier "set the ray to jerry" for example

The only real revelation to my ears was the 15 minute studio demo, "Why Am I So Tired", which sounds great.

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, July 19, 2012 6:47 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hasn't this already been released on Earphoria, or is it a different take?

You know, I'm not sure if its the same or not. That track never played on my copy of Earphoria for some reason, it would always skip from the day I bought it, so I'm not sure I ever heard the full thing.

Liner notes seem to indicate it's the same. Similarly "Slunk" is the Japanese TV performance from said collection as well. Kinda odd that those are thrown in as ringers, I agree.

Just listened to/ripped the cassette demo. Might be my copy but "Jennifer Ever" sounds kinda muddy as does "East" for halfway through, when it suddenly and clearly brightens up for the rest of the tape.

That I couldn't confirm either because, as I learned last night, I no longer have a single way in my house to listen to cassettes. Ha. Still love that that was included though!

bummer there isn't more siamese dream outtake material, like cleaned up versions of some of those demos that leaked a few years ago. the heavier "set the ray to jerry" for example

In the absence of that

http://thepumpkins.net/music/647-music-quiet-and-other-songs

Meantime, as I just posted on the Frogs thread, here's their take on Pumpkins songs from a 1997 rehearsal:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL345D3F4CAFD406A5&feature=edit_ok

love that version of Rhinoceros

yeah that version is great

(seventeen years ago)

is it still your fave?

yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjegcYZVfs

Hadn't listened to that song in years and got goosebumps the whole way through. Thanks for the thread bump, Curtis. I'm gonna have to dive back into PI. Starla has my favorite Corgan guitar and Blew Away is maybe James' best song.

Hello Kitty Kat is an awesome song, so brutal, & it came very close to being on Siamese Dream (in place of or after Quiet iirc). the promo cassettes of SD have Hello Kitty Kat on them, and it's a different mix than the one on PI.

record rules, still stunning what a prolific & consistently great songwriter Billy was in the Pumpkins' prime

xp yeah Blew Away is the only James song that I listen to (somewhat) regularly. The Boy is pretty cool too - here's a sick live version from a Starchildren show from June 1994. it's a lot faster than the one on TAFH: https://archive.org/details/tsp1994-06-18.shn/tsp1994-06-18t04.shn - also there's a pretty sweet cover of Cars. that's a cool show. early version of Here is No Why, too.

Neither classic or dud, but has some stunning must-hear moments on it.

Damn, the outro to Obscured is so gorgeous.

Ahhh, "Whir"....still gorgeous and the lyrics have meant different things to me as I've gotten older.

Yeah, 'Whir' is easily one of my favourites. That and 'Frail and Bedazzled' ...

Ah, "Glynnis"...one of the little treasures housed on the No Alternative charity comp.

Otm. I'm always moved/suprised when it comes on. I find it so evocative of the time.

Try to Corgan form, though, the version on the Deluxe Edition box isn't the original.

Don't have it in front of me to a/b, but I recall (besides taking all the air out if the mix) it has added, louder, seemingly current/more nasal vocalizations from Corgan, and I recall more noodly soloing?

Oh, huh, I’ll have to check out the No Alternative version… I always saw that comp around, but never heard it / knew what was on it.

(Is the version of “Bye June” different from the take on Lull? I’d have to dig the EP out to a/b, which feels like werk. The liner notes for both songs say “Ignoffo Sessions,” I dunno what that means…)

Oh, "Unseen Power of the Picket Fence" was on No Alternative, right before the Pumpkins song? That's really funny.

Is there a thread yet for "When a b-sides comp is their best album?"

It's impressive how "Starla" not only remains engaging for 11 mins., but feels like it's "just ramping up" when it cuts off... not an easy trick to pull with a track of that length (all the chord changes in the final gtr-wank section help with that illusion, I think).

The existence and non-release of Glynis suggests someone had to tell BC that he'd stolen a Blues Traveler tune

i have no idea what that means, but it was incuded on the expanded Pisces Iscariot reissue from 2012

I like it and heard it there, but it sounds like "The Mountains Win Again" by Blues Traveler.

Glynis was released on the No Alternative compilation in October 1993. Mountains Win Again wasn't even debuted live until after Blues Traveler released Four in September 1994. That said, the riff IS similar! But if anything, BT ganked the Pumpkins.

Pisces Iscariot was released about a month after Four. I would guess that Glynis didn't show up on Pisces Iscariot because the compilation was still relatively fresh; maybe there was some kind of a contractual non-compete clause to prevent sales from one album eating into sales of the comp.

Good info, thank you. Our guy's ego is safe!

Ha...geniuses of a like mind on a similar wavelength (Billy & Popper)...that's how it happened.