Steely Dan C or D?

ultimately we must understand that as humans we are composites of our inscrutable quirks, irrational beliefs, and non-logically formed opinions. therefore, it's somewhat pointless to argue in this "gotcha"-style fashion that relies on the deconstruction of words that were articulated to rationalize an opinion that didn't come from a place of logic in the first place.

IF IT IS POINTLESS TO SO ARGUE THEN STFU

also please don't use "deconstruction" to mean "close examination"

I used to really like Steely Dan. Now I like them more

res I'm not trying to trip you up or mess with you now, honest. A bit upthread, yeah, but disagreeing with somebody's opinion ought to be fruitful cos it makes us see the flaws in our own. I'm not quite saying "there's no disputing about taste", either. I think there are loads of ways you can interestingly think about and disagree about music. I don't think arguing about the music's status as being "above" subjectivity is one of those ways, really. What makes people like Steely Dan, as an example cos this is the thread we're on, might be a bunch of different qualities. Different for different people. Saying those qualities aren't there or are rubbish feels self-defeating because the refutation happens as soon as one person steps up and says "no, I like that".

Anyway, pub time, no aggro intended. Peace.

They got the house on the corner
With the rug inside
They got the booze they need
All that money can buy
They got the shapely bods
They got the Steely Dan T-shirt
And for the coup-de-gras
They're outrageous

Show biz kids making movies
Of themselves you know they
Don't give a fuck about anybody else

I don't think arguing about music has to be pointless, although it certainly can be. Sometimes someone else's argument will allow you to hear something in a new way. Reading about how someone else appreciates something might open up a new avenue for you to appreciate it. I think that's what some people upthread were doing by trying to call attention to the deliberateness of the slick Steely Dan sound and how they might have been deliberately going for a soulless plasticity in order to complement a song about alienation. Personally I don't buy that argument. I think Steely Dan worked so hard to get that sound because they think it sounds good, and I don't think it was in any way an ironic pose. But for some people, maybe they appreciate it more if they hear it that way.

I think its a bit of both and that the push and pull between the two is one of the things that makes them really interesting - arrrgh I really wish I could find that Fagen interview, it was relatively recent (he also explains the inspiration for My Old School and who Rikki Don't Lose That Number is about)

Fagen is a master ironist in interviews - so it's hard to take completely seriously anything he says in them about what they were trying to accomplish or what a song was about. It would be interesting to read the interview though.

Most of my appreciation for Steely Dan comes from my dad blasting Aja, Gaucho and Can't Buy A Thrill when I was a child. I just loved the way the music flowed, particularly on Aja and Gaucho (the song "Gaucho" is probably on my list of most underappreciated songs ever and I have a visceral dance reaction to "Peg" whenever I think about it).

"Gaucho" (the song) is the best example I know of how a man with limited vocal chops can deliver a masterful performance.

I must say I'm a big fan of Fagen's singing. It's very distinctive and raw. The rawness of it is a great counterbalance to the smoothness of the instrumental sound.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ total agreement

I think its a bit of both and that the push and pull between the two is one of the things that makes them really interesting - arrrgh I really wish I could find that Fagen interview, it was relatively recent (he also explains the inspiration for My Old School and who Rikki Don't Lose That Number is about)

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, June 27, 2008 1:35 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I think you mean this one, I just stumbled upon it the other day and it's pretty interesting and Fagen doesn't come off particularly ironic or elusive: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1174152,00.html

ah yeah I found that one too - but I don't think his comments about Hey Nineteen are in that, they must be somewhere else, I have distinct memory of reading about his approach to the arrangement and production of that particular song.

http://pitchfork.com/news/62738-steely-dans-donald-fagen-arrested-for-allegedly-assaulting-wife/

assaulting your wife - dud!

damn.

This whole "I told you so" crap brought about by dudes who love The Beatles is really...

You never hear of indie rockers beating women! Seriously shit the fuck up.

I'm just saying Lennon and the guy from Surfer Blood become shorthands for scum, avatars for everything wrong with men in rock, while Lindsey Buckingham and SD are praised without question. It's funny.

Sorry I don't have precognition you worthless pussstain

Please link me previous episodes fagen or Becker hitting women

It's funny.

"I knew it all along"

Fuck you

You misunderstand me. I never said "I told you so" re: the moral turpitude of Steely Dan. I love Steely Dan. I just think it's funny how so many people will recoil at the mention of Lennon, or the guy from Surfer Blood, or even Isaac Brock, while evangelizing for Tusk and Gaucho. It's funny to me. I don't care if Fagen beat his wife. It doesn't change my opinion of his work at all.

Now those same people will have a harder time talking about SD w/o offending someone. I enjoy it.

domestic violence and abuse is depressingly common across literally all walks of life but flappy bird is stuck so far up his own asshole, which likely resembles billy corgan's visage in miniature as it's being tongued, that the first astoundingly stupid point he makes when he hears about it, in multiple threads, is that this incident justifies his dislike for a band's music and his incredibly tedious posturing wrt his taste in popular music.

I just said I love Steely Dan. I'm a huge fan.

"I just think it's funny"

"I just think it's funny"

_"I just think it's funny"_

__"I just think it's funny"__

___"I just think it's funny"___

____"I just think it's funny"____

_____"I just think it's funny"_____

______"I just think it's funny"______

_______"I just think it's funny"_______

________"I just think it's funny"________

_________"I just think it's funny"_________

Domestic abuse is not funny. The politics of who's hip and who's not, who's a moral arbiter and who's scum, the self righteousness and the hypocrisy in it - that's very funny to me. Please contribute to the Howard Stern Thread more often.

But Steely Dan are not a moral arbiter and never were... I feel you, slappy bird, I'm just rooting for you to throw down with some profound stuf!

Who's OK to like, who makes you cool, who's crimes go unmentioned...Lindsey Buckingham dragged his girlfriend by her hair down his gravel driveway, one hand on her head and another on the steering wheel of his Mercedes. Who cares? I love Tusk. I love Gaucho. I think the politics of who's hip and who's scum, it's all very funny. That's all. I should clarify once again though that assaulting your wife is 100% dud.

Once again : talk about Donald fagen or steely Dan. Otherwise fuck the fuck off

Try caring about domestic abuse instead of using it as some kind of bingo thing

none of this is funny

Check out the North Korea thread. Always hilarious!

Lindsey Buckingham did that?

If he did I'm sad to hear it, and it will mean something for my appreciation of his work.

from Storms by Carol Ann Harris, LB's girlfriend from 76-84

http://s13.postimg.org/clyysocj9/lindsey1.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/579n0aqnp/lindsey2.jpg

Wrong thread and most of us are familiar with the alleged stories.