The song that represents the END of the 90s

it pretty much ended the dominance of electronic music in the US.

I loved the White Stripes and Hives songs both, but I don't remember this dominance of electronic music before that. What specifically do you have in mind? The "electronica" thing was several years earlier, although there were still a few random semi-high-profile singles along those lines (like BT & M Doughty's fabulous "Never Gonna Come Back Down"), but I remember chart rock as being pretty MOR post-alt-rock (things like Third Eye Blind's "Never Let You Go," Everclear's "Wonderful," etc), and chart pop being the stereotypical boy band/girl idol mix...

Brandy - What About Us? comes to mind.

Prml Scrm: Kill All Hippies

Geir, a lot of 90s US "alternative" music has sounds like that on the first Jellyfish record: early Posies, early 90s REM, PM Dawn. Both grunge and gangster rap splintered the marketplace, but you still hear these sounds throughout the 90s: most of the fans made their way into the jam band scene (you saw those Cat In The Hat hats at Phish shows), but there's also the Elephant 6 scene.

This is all just my US perspective, and particularly my Georgia-Texas perspective, which colors my view of the 90s. At least in the main scenes I traveled in, Britpop was mainly a less texturally-interesting version of this stuff: some great songs, but mostly just guitar combos (same could be said of GBV and Pavement, but they fit in better because of the whimsical lyrics I think).

that's interesting 'cos to me I see that Jellyfish/ Shiny Happy People/ World Party thing as the end of the late-eighties acoustic pop thing. I'd put, say, aztec camera, fairground attraction, deacon blue in the same rough category. Can see the lineage to Phish fans, but not so much to Elephant6?

See, it's funny (and again, it may be that I spent so much time in Athens that my view is blurry), but I see the lineage of these sounds more in Elephant 6 than in Phish etc. I'm thinking of the usual suspects: OTC, Elf Power, Apples in Stereo. I guess I see the relation between all these in the instrumental textures: mostly not rocking out with guitars (and when this sound breeds with electronic sounds in Chicago, you get Tortoise etc: see, isn't this kind of armchair genealogy fun?).

Thomas, you mention bands like Aztec Camera that I don't know: I'm too provincial. But in the US (particularly Georgia), if there are 80s influences, it's Camper van Beethoven. I think a lot of the influence was political: there was a feeling that we needed to be better progressives, but prog rock in the US had become sort of right-wing (emphasis on chops rather than "feeling it") and so progressives needed a new sound. Bringing in DIY string and horn sections met the challenge.

Crowded House are another example.

And I can see some musical similarities between them and Elephant 6 bands. But for me, Elephant6 took the Sgt Peppers template and made it dirty & lo-fi. If anything, what distinguishes the early nineties stuff we're talking about is that it's understated, nicely recorded, organic and "tidy"-sounding.

I kinda see most of those E6 bands as being a US counterpart to stuff like Super Furry Animals or Gorkys over here

"Beautiful Day" opened the door for "Fell in Love with a Girl".

on SFA and Gorky's: totally, those two bands were the ones from the UK that stuck the most among the scene in the US I'm talking about.

I got the impression that the E6 bands were trying to get a high 60s sound, but didn't have the cash. But I don't think that's all they were trying to get. And you're right that Jellyfish was nicely recorded, on a major label. I don't think Jellyfish was particularly understated though: "The King Is Half Undressed" is an enormous sounding record, with rock signifiers (climaxes, etc.) but with different textures than usual in rock (first Lenny Kravitz album another one that fits here in the early 90s).

yes and yes on jellyfish and lk.

in my thinking, the difference there (and with presidents, ween...things i cant think of) was the split between "alternative" and "indie". jellyfish didnt want to be a bar band or do the van circut, they wanted to be stars, which is much more the british formula. and the sort of thing current us blogrock-pop seems to go for. a twist on what can be huge vs. going for a certain sound cause yr into it.

think you're roughly OTM about alternative vs indie. ( not sure abt the "british formula" tho, or the implication that "indie" bands don't want to be famous)

also I somehow still think of Jellyfish et al as "grown-up" bands, even though I'm now probably older than they were at the time.

yeah, thats a good point, they did seem grown-up

the disinterest in fame is an exaggeration. however, there is a very different approach between pavement (or better yet something like slint) and say (trying to remember big nme/mm rising stars circa 93)gorky's. much of this due to the fact that the uk is smaller than new england and with 2 major weeklies and sundry monthlies. the overall nature of getting out of yr basement and into other peoples ears and minds is just very different, even for bands doing the "different" thing.

granted, not every small uk group of the time went for the via the nme to the highstreet to the world formula either.

Geir, a lot of 90s US "alternative" music has sounds like that on the first Jellyfish record: early Posies, early 90s REM, PM Dawn

PM Dawn no. Absolutely not. There's not even the slightest hint powerpop in any hip-hop that has ever been made.

Early Posies, yes, but exactly how many Billboard Number one singles did Posies have?

Generally, the 90s were about hip-hop, dance and grunge. And you don't get much further from Jellyfish than hip-hop and dance. Surely Britpop had quite a bit in common with Jellyfish, but that was in terms of influences in common, not that Jellyfish was ever an influence on Blur or Oasis.

Jellyfish have influenced acts such as The Feeling, The Hoosiers and Orson though. So I would say the Jellyfish influence is considerably more evident in the 00s than it was in the 90s.

Generally, the 90s were about hip-hop, dance and grunge.

Not in the US---though I know that puts my post in danger of being just another UK≠US post. Dance was mostly a niche thing in the US in the 90s (cf. the reception of Dig Your Own Hole over here). Not hip-hop or grunge, they were major, lots of chart play. But "alternative" radio stations were a big deal, and they played a lot of the stuff mentioned here, Jellyfish, Posies, etc. These weren't college stations; and I don't have listener numbers but I think these were popular stations---so even if they weren't up to grunge's sales, they were still big enough time to be remembered as part of the 90s, and not just in a niche way.

cool where did you get the "not equals" sign from?

btw I agree; the alternative bands were very television-friendly, probably moreso than grunge until it really went mainstream around 93/94.

sorry I know you were talking about radio but this was all over the telly too.

totally! I'm embarrassed to remember how excited I was to hear, like, Jesus Jones on some tv show or ad.

btw on my mac keyboard it's just option = to get ≠

true...slight bits of house, contmep r'n'b, and touches of techno slipped into the mass culture here, but otherwise not the decade of dance europe saw.

and indeed stations like dre became syndicated "alternative" radio mid dial in swaths of the country (later 90's saw the rise of 2 alternative channels in my home town upstate)...their playlists were different from most student run college stations and community channels.

in certain regards, ok computer might be the end of the 90's...but....im not entirely willing to go there (given that it excludes a shedload of other trends despite its iconic popularity)

wdre that is

Vanity compels me to point this discussion towards one of the more well-attended threads I've ever thrown: Is there a name for that genre of turn-of-the-90s pop-rock with the positive vibes, huge guitar leads, and gated drums?

(Note, not sure how relevant it is to this thread b/c I keep getting this one and the "what aspects of this decade will seem weird in the future" one confused...)

http://www.kkbox.com.tw/funky/album/72274.jpg

Here it comes the party of a lifetime
31st of December
Man I remember when the ball dropped for 90
Now it's 9-9, ten years behind me
What's gonna happen?
Don't nobody know
We'll see when the clock gets to 12-0-0
Chaos, the cops gonna block the street
Man who the hell cares?
Just don't stop the beat
No time to sleep, yo it's on tonight
K-C you feeling me right? (Yeah)
2-0-0-0, the Will 2 K
The new millennium, yo excuse me Willennium (yeah)
It can't get thicker than this (Big Will)
Slick like Rick I can't miss
(And we gonna party like it's 19)
Hold up it is

(K-Ci)
Here it comes another year
Come on everyone, new millennium
Here it comes another year
Everyone, new millennium

There's a party tonight
Everybody was drinking
The house was screaming
And the bass was shaking
And it won't be long
Till everybody knowing
That twelve o'clock the roof will be blowing
Drinks on me, up the cups, and
Midnight coming at full thrust, and
Dick Clark holding it down, and
The second hand rolling around (Na, na, na, na)
Hundred thousands deep, world wide press
Hate to be the man that gotta clean this mess
Same resolution, get the money
Ain't where we've been, it's where we gonna be
Get ready to hum, ol' lang syme
Cause a person that know the words is hard to find
First soul train line of the year
Four, three, two, one

(K-Ci)
Its here and I like it
Gonna pack the dance floor
Rock the dance floor

[K-Ci]
Here it comes another year
Come on everyone, new millennium
Here it comes another year
Everyone, new millennium

(K-C)
Yeah, yeah
Say yeah, yeah
Say yeah, yeah
Say yeah, yeah
Say yeah, yeah
Say yeah, yeah
Say yeah, yeah
Say yeah, yeah

I remember trying to count how old I'd be
When the clock struck twelve in the year two g
Medianoche finally near
This will be that anthem amongst the cheers
Just the man to usher it in
Big Will bringing the heat
K-Ci bringing the plan
Ringing it in, waiting for the ball to drop
That 2000 vault we breaking the lock
Let hip-hop keep blazing the charts
May the past keep a warm spot in your heart
May the future hold more joy then pain
Hands in the air waiting for confetti to rain

(K-Ci)
Its here and I like it
Gonna pack the dance floor
Rock the dance floor

(K-Ci)
Here it comes another year
Come on everyone, new millennium
Here it comes another year
Everyone, new millennium

There's a party tonight
Everybody was drinking
The house was screaming
And the bass was shaking
And it won't be long
Till everybody knowing at twelve o'clock
At 12 o'clock
Say what? Say what? Say what? What?

(K-Ci)
Here it comes another year
Come on everyone, new millennium
Here it comes another year
Everyone, new millennium

True dat, true dat, true dat
Yo London, uh come on
Yo Bangkok, come on, come on
LA, ha, ha
The NYC
Come on, say what? Say what?
Yo Philly, come on, hey
Hey Tokyo, come on
Everybody say what now
Say what now, saw what now
Come on, come on, come on

It's no "Wild Wild West".

will smith's greatest hits poll coming right up

yes plz

Dance was mostly a niche thing in the US in the 90s

C&C Music Factory did pretty well in the US already early in the 90s, didn't they?

Dance music was kind of like novelty/comedy records in the minds of most American teenagers at that time, though.

I'm all about reviving decade/time-themed threads right now - I really liked this one.

"Bittersweet Symphony" just SOUNDS like a good song to close the 90's.. and it was pretty close to the point when alt-rock radio turned to shit anyway. I believe this song signified the end of the 90's, even though it came out August 97 and wasn't played on US radio until early 98.

"Faith" was the song that signified the beginning of the awkward transitional period that started in late-98 and ended around 9/11/01. Sonically speaking, the 90's and the 00's both have little in common with this time period. This would have been the time when TRL was at its peak in popularity.

"Last Night" kicked off the whole 00's indie-rock explosion.

So to answer the initial question, "Porcelain" by Moby.

"Idioteque" always sounded to me like the beginning of something new, rather than the end of a time period.

Miss Kittin - "Frank Sinatra" (came out in 2000 too!)

The tone of this was just such a big 'fuck you' to 90s utopian inclusiveness in club music. Really marked a change. Also because of the overt lack of any funk/US influence and the first time I remember an italo-tinged record being a club hit (except maybe for "Space Invaders are Smoking Grass".

OR

Kelis - 'Caught out there'

At the time it seemed like a novelty hit, we weren't to know that everything would sound a bit like it in a few years time...

Dance music was kind of like novelty/comedy records in the minds of most American teenagers at that time, though.

Huh?

'Dance' music (ie C&C, etc.) was pop - you couldn't escape it on Top 40 radio at the time.

NSYNC - "Bye Bye Bye"

I guess the song that represents the start of the 00s then would be The Strokes' "The Modern Age" (specifically, the EP version that was named an NME Single of the Week in January of 2001 and started the whole "garage rock revival" thing)

The start of the 00s was either Aaliyah's "We Need a Resolution" or that NERD song about politicians sounding like strippers etc

The last song of the 90s was Len, "Steal My Sunshine." Sung almost as a challenge as to what would follow...

The end to an innocent, self-indulgent, relatively happy decade - the sunshine got stolen, and how

You know, to get something to represent the 00s, you should really get something really obscure that only a small circle of net fans have heard of, as that is indeed the most archetypical trend of the 00s.

Everything in between (Eminem, talking about you) '99-'01 was transitional like someone else said. Strokes/"return of rawk!" was hyped up bullshit that died off by what, 2003? and was no real "shift" at all. That White Stripes 01 record was the only good to come out of all that

The 2003 Lil Jon single signals "the start of the end of the beginning" of the decade hahaha - we're in mid-decade by then with crunk. The Neptunes/Timbaland sound is so ubiquitous its completely dominant in pop. Eminem's popularity dips by his '04 attempt at a comeback, there are a ton of boring as fuck artsy-psych folk-rock bands with animalistic names everywhere, and the transitional period is completely over

But the 90's proper ended 3-4 years earlier with "Steal My Sunshine," believe me

>>You know, to get something to represent the 00s, you should really get something really obscure that only a small circle of net fans have heard of, as that is indeed the most archetypical trend of the 00s.

-- Geir Hongro, Thursday, August 7, 2008 2:08 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link<<

Maybe to a small circle of net fans (that is the most whatever-trend). But I don't know if you're just being sardonic Geir. Most music fans still don't go home everyday and read all the exciting obscure music blogs on teh internets, come on now. "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was not exactly "obscure," yet most would agree it signified the beginning of the decade and to discuss obvious large cultural markers you should talk about what resonated with...the larger culture

I'd like to just pretend Limp Bizkit/Korn just never happened though, who am I to talk

"No Distance Left To Run" - Blur.

Right Here Right Now - Fatboy Slim

Maybe to a small circle of net fans (that is the most whatever-trend).

It is net trends that I am speaking of. The stuff that sells in "mainstream" amounts usually does so either to 11 year old kids or to 50 year old housewives. Those who are actually interested in music are to an increasing degree checking out stuff within genres that they know they already like, stuff that is unlikely to get a mainstream audience, but which is still very much available on the Net, for downloading or for purchase on CD from independent net shops.

Song that sounds like the 90's being thrillingly sucked into a grinder and contemptuously spat out: Earl Brutus - Male Wife

Song that sounds like the final 90's firework into the sun: Grandaddy - He's Simple, He's Dumb, He's The Pilot

Song that takes the whole house down and fucking enjoys itself: The Monsoon Bassoon - Commando

Song that kisses the 90's goodnight: Boards Of Canada - Happy Cycling

Song that quietly mourns: The Beta Band - The Cow's Wrong

I like a lot of the ideas bouncing around here now - particularly the "transitional period" reading of the turn-of-the-millenium, which yeah, doesn't sound much at all like the stereotypical 90s or the stereotypical 2000s - although I think you could argue that while Backstreet and Bizkit were both short-lived eras, there are certain things that have continued on in the tapestry of the 2000s - mainly Sum-41-esque pop-punk singing, whether in that genre or in emo-based things. So I dunno.

One thing I think is really fabulous is how diverse the readings of the 90s are - in one post it's a happy, innocent time that was brought to a crashing end with Woodstock 99 (or whatever) - for others it's a vacuous, self-obsessed decade of Clintonian compromise and/or inane, baseless earnestness. (I could speculate that this has a lot to do with what age you were when all this went down, but I suspect it'd break down quickly.)

So to follow up on my first paragraph there, I'm starting to think it's that first Linkin Park hit, at least in terms of "beginning of the 2000s" in a history-tracing, "Rocket 88" sense - but in terms of a bomb going off and people going "my god, we're in a new era," it just didn't have the impact.

lou got it quick.

for others it's a vacuous, self-obsessed decade of Clintonian compromise and/or inane, baseless earnestness.

wtf does this even mean??

the awkward transitional period that started in late-98 and ended around 9/11/01.

I know I've said this countless times on ILM but ^ this period of music was the worst thing ever