― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 29 June 2006 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 16:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 29 June 2006 16:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link
That said, the situation isn't as dire as it was 10-15 years ago. I'm *glad* people are still talking about Bad Moon Rising and EVOL 'cause for years they were ignored and/or dissed. The improving conditions probably have something to do with widespread reissues, high availability of music via p2p / eBay / Amazon, and the wealth of info available on-line.
But when given a choice between interpreting an artist's career as artistic progression of growth vs. entropic decline into diminishing returns, the mainstream tends to support the former view while indie folk support the latter. It's like you've never read a review by Christgau or something. If you say, "Well, who cares what they say," that's a different argument than, "It doesn't happen at all."
― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 29 June 2006 16:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:33 (eighteen years ago) link
still beats talking about sleater-kinney (sorry folks!).
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:37 (eighteen years ago) link
album all-time rank
slanted and enchanted 114terror twilight 1604
daydream nation 82sonic nurse 1526
murmur 58up 1346(around the sun and reveal apparently didn't rank in the top 2000 and hence weren't ranked at all i guess)
let it be 228pleased to meet me 761(all shook down and don't tell a soul didn't rank)
dig me out 577one beat 1026BUT IN FAIRNESS TO EDWARD HE MAY WELL BE ONTO A POINTthe woods 616
the greatest and you are free beat moon pix too (the inside scoop from el scandalo knows of what he speaks)!
by and large though i still hold that with indie rock the cliche is 'the early stuff is better'. to quote 'still at the top of his game'/'rock n roll's roger clemens' billy joel - i may be wrong you may be right.
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:47 (eighteen years ago) link
by and large though i still hold that with indie rock the cliche is 'the early stuff is better'.
Yeah, we agree there. All I'm saying is that mainstream folk looking at indie from the outside don't always see it the same way, and given that they have the larger audience they can end up writing the history books...
― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:57 (eighteen years ago) link
yeah, esp considering how fairly irrelevant to the culture at large the indie rock scene or rock criticism are any sorta mainstream notice can easily overwhelm what was there beforehand - one vw commercial had a much huger impact than 30 years of crit gushing and artist namechecking did with nick drake. an american idol entrant sings 'one more hour' or some detergant uses 'ironclad' for their jingle and pow - that's what sleater-kinney's known for, that's their legacy.
stence since you got matador sales stats i'd heard that for the longest time the top selling matador titles were all the liz phair and then cr, cr - is this true now? what are they?
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 18:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― Chairman Doinel (Charles McCain), Thursday, 29 June 2006 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link
Of course, you'd have to be able to find a copy of Dark Continent to play this game...
― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 29 June 2006 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link
Edward, you say mainstream folk have a larger audience and get to write the history books, but the question is: how many people are paying attention and how many people give a shit?
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 29 June 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago) link
you totally should photoshop a broken bat and Mike Piazza into the cover of Glass Houses.
― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 29 June 2006 18:55 (eighteen years ago) link
Pavement is different because they had their indie smash from the start.
― milo z (mlp), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:17 (eighteen years ago) link
That VW commercial had a huge impact. From a VH1 article: U.S. sales of Nick Drake's Pink Moon album rose from 6,000 copies, prior to the song's use in a Cabrio commercial, to 74,000 copies in 2000.
Just to clarify, the mainstream doesn't *always* get the last word, but its influence is stronger. Who's paying attention and who gives a shit? Anyone with more than a passing interest in music, I guess, which would be millions of people.
That acclaimedmusic.net site is interesting, here are Eno's rankings:
Another Green World 173My Life in the Bush of Ghosts 316Here Come the Warm Jets 351Before and After Science 503Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy) 903Ambient 1: Music for Airports 1213Wrong Way Up 2091
I've would've predicted much bigger finishes for Taking Tiger Mountain (though I'm not a big fan of it myself) and Here Come The Warm Jets. Is this still a Sleater-Kinney thread?
― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago) link
Geez. You would have thought most people would at least know "Rapture", "The Tide Is High", or "One way or Another"* by now.
*Certainly the most overexposed old song of the past few years.
x-post
― Chairman Doinel (Charles McCain), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― gooblar (gooblar), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― gooblar (gooblar), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link
crystal ballroom remains more famous to me for being the place where little richard fired jimi hendrix.
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:52 (eighteen years ago) link
What, Pavement and Boards of Canada shoulda been bigger?
x-post: question answered!
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 June 2006 19:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Thursday, 29 June 2006 20:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― Chairman Doinel (Charles McCain), Thursday, 29 June 2006 22:23 (eighteen years ago) link
Taken as a whole the material is really interesting - the band seems to be at this midway point between riot grrl, Sonic Youth, and, I dunno, Helium? Nobody's really found their signature styles yet, and the vocals in particular feel like a total different band when they get up to the loud parts - there's no outsize wail from Corin, more of a Kathleen Hanna roar/mewl...or, on "Lora's Song" some sort of nasal Cyndi Lauper impression. The guitar approach is grungier, with a lot of big distorted chug-along chords accented by the kind of wobbly leads that would later be the key to their whole sound. Some of the tracks, like the very very good "Be Yr Mama," and "Slow Song" I think point very directly to where they were heading.
Stepping back and hearing it as just an album rather than a step in the Sleater-Kinney canon, there's some great stuff. "Don't Think You Wanna" and "How To Play Dead," those are great tracks! But it definitely fails the jumping-on-point test, I think, just for the aforementioned dud tracks. The last two especially fall off the boat, even with the Courtney Love cigarette shriek on "The Last Song."
Incidentally, I did some indie rock karaoke grunt work today and ended up spending a fair amount of time with the deep cuts on "One Beat," and sort of discovered "Funeral Song" for the first time. That one's great! Should have been the last song on the album - there's that wack All Hands/One Beat tracklist problem again.
Also, am I alone in wishing they'd put out an album of Smashing Pumpkins covers? I first hit on the idea over in this thread and I still think it's a good one. They could call it, you know, "I Am One Beat" or "ZerOh!" or something.
― Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 29 June 2006 23:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 29 June 2006 23:03 (eighteen years ago) link
I have to admit I was incredibly let down with the version I found of the "Hunger Strike" duet with Pearl Jam - Corin seems to be holding herself back from really taking the Chris Cornell part, which she should be totally capable of rocking. With her singing a good octave lower than Chris just doesn't cut through the sturmundrang the way it should. In fact, I would think it was Carrie singing if not for Eddie's declaration at the end: "Senora Corin Tucker... and I don't know, uh, yo no se en Espanol, but, uh, I love to, Chris Cornell too. [pause for massive wave of applause] Bueno amigo." Oh well. She sort of picks it up halfway through, so maybe this was just a weak night on the tour that got mp3ized...
― Doctor Casino (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 29 June 2006 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link
DC show webcast tomorrow
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 3 August 2006 03:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― mookieproof (mookieproof), Thursday, 3 August 2006 04:27 (eighteen years ago) link
tonight was awesome and i don't particularly like them!
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 3 August 2006 05:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 3 August 2006 06:08 (eighteen years ago) link
Seconded, I love their live "More than a Feeling" rendition.
― mox twelve (Mox twleve), Thursday, 3 August 2006 07:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Thursday, 3 August 2006 13:02 (eighteen years ago) link