Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

i wonder if all of you are dads.

wtf is the pitchfork indie backlash? pitchfork & the bands it likes are bigger than ever, right? surely u can't mean ILM cos if this place was ever unfriendly to indie (lol Kid A) it certainly isn't now. indie won, well done u fuxx, u can drop the victimhood

Wilco is a band, I have determined, who while not necessarily the best around will always be above their criticism, be it positive or negative. A combination of self-explanatory artistic decisions and attention to craft leaves the critic with little to say beyond "I liked it" and "I didn't like it".

by the "pitchfork indie" backlash, I mean the visible minority who go out of their way to slag off arty indie bands such as Radiohead and Wilco because of a perceived lack of real artistic integrity. there is no point pretending this lot don't exist.

little to say beyond "I liked it" and "I didn't like it"

having suffered through all of that interminable movie, I have a great deal more that I could say about this pedestrian, unimaginative bunch of retreads. But you aren't listening, and, worse, would probably write some godforsaken exegesis about their imagined merits.

Anyway, there are literally hundreds of much better bands I could spend my time listening to, so I will. But imagining that people can't make a case against this crap is wishful thinking.

go on then

oh right, so u just mean that there are some ppl who don't like wilco and radiohead. don't really see how that is a 'backlash', maybe some ppl really don't like that music and have good reasons too! crazy i know! (x-posts)

where would we be without wishful thinking

dude there is no point pretending that there aren't folk who not only use bands like wilco and radiohead as strawmen, but construct their own fantastical conspiracy theory around "pitchfork indie" and how it is all nonsense

hence "death of popular music this millennium" grandstanding

i mean bogus metanarratives are the main weapon of this aforementioned backlash

btw sleeve's post from the second sentence onwards is the most arrogant, pompous dreck i've seen in a while here, even allowing for the fact that (s)he dislikes wilco

yeah calling it a backlash when the majority of ppl talking about music on the internet (including here) are v pro that kind of music seems like a pretty good example of bogus grandstanding metanarration itself.

and sure you can make a case against it, feel free, but wilco are above this case because by and large (in my opinion at least) they're generally doing exactly what they set out to do

just like they are above any excessive praise

i'm sayin' what the music does to me, you can too, and we can argue till the cows etc. but the discourse is about subjective impression not how wilco are evil/saviours

it's not bogus grandstanding metanarration, and this ain't a competition. this backlash refers to stuff i've actually seen. and i said "minority" if yr taking notes. also i'm not pro any "kind" of music, i'm actually railing against those who would categorise very different bands in "kinds". "pitchfork indie" is a little strawman of my own, based around the fact that most of the "arty-indie-bollocks" music is itself honest, well-constructed and much better than anything the architects of its own demonisation could come up with.

"the ongoing "pitchfork indie" backlash" is a reverential term for the negative reverence of those who seek to prove that the music they discuss somehow detracts from music itself. somehow poisons. and is not a single offshoot artistic vision.

i still don't get how wilco are above criticism

like how doesn't

A combination of self-explanatory artistic decisions and attention to craft leaves the critic with little to say beyond "I liked it" and "I didn't like it".

refer to a bunch of bands

or artists/singers

yeah calling it a backlash when the majority of ppl talking about music on the internet (including here) are v pro that kind of music seems like a pretty good example of bogus grandstanding metanarration itself.

p.s. trying to score cheap rhetorical points rather than addressing the point at hand is the other main weapon of the lol backlash (insert scare quotes wherever tbh)

I perhaps phrased it badly. Wilco are BETTER than their criticism. They are not above it. Criticism of Wilco is still necessary to persuade people whether they are a band to be listened to or not. I appreciate they're not everyone's cup of tea. But criticism of Wilco can never be original or vital criticism. The band are far too explicit.

This guy needs to just go back to reviewing the album, not society, other critics, circumstances, and fans lack of appreciation for his other, more worldly music. Uggh.

The problem with the OPIB, in a nutshell. This is my final word.

btw sleeve's post from the second sentence onwards is the most arrogant, pompous dreck i've seen in a while here, even allowing for the fact that (s)he dislikes wilco

― restraint and blindness (Just got offed), Sunday, November 2, 2008 2:14 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark

definitely the most arrogant & pompous post on this thread, yep

i'm not anti-pitchfork at all. i think anyone can agree that a lot of the music they champion is very good, and some of it is not that good. isn't that the same of any publication/blog? the main problem i have with pitchfork is they sometimes/tend to give very high ratings to bands that aren't really fully formed yet, and haven't realized their potential (eg vivian girls, no age to an extent), which i think can hinder growth of said bands. anyway, i like both of those bands. also snl just came on, so i'm not really going to finish this thought

"NO, YOUR MOMMA!"

is the third main weapon of the BLAH WHATEVER IM GOIN TO BED

all i objected to was the defensiveness of the 'backlash' idea, because it seems to imply that ppl might be pretending not to like these bands in order to promote some sinister metanarrative. when the much more sensible conclusion is that some ppl actually don't like them, for any number of reasons. it's ok though: most ppl here still like wilco it seems. this backlash is doomed!

The idea that any band is necessarily above criticism is absurd. It's like, "they're honest musicians - leave them off!". Fluff, I tellsya, pure fluff.

by the "pitchfork indie" backlash, I mean the visible minority who go out of their way to slag off arty indie bands such as Radiohead and Wilco because of a perceived lack of real artistic integrity. there is no point pretending this lot don't exist. the lex

― restraint and blindness (Just got offed), Sunday, November 2, 2008 2:58 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark

all i objected to was the defensiveness of the 'backlash' idea, because it seems to imply that ppl might be pretending not to like these bands in order to promote some sinister metanarrative. when the much more sensible conclusion is that some ppl actually don't like them, for any number of reasons. it's ok though: most ppl here still like wilco it seems. this backlash is doomed!

― jabba hands, Sunday, November 2, 2008 3:46 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark

yeah it's funny, i've noticed that since i've stopped writing music criticism i've become much less convinced that anyone is engaged in the promotion of sinister metanarratives. wheels within wheels!

attempts to invent reasons for the creation of such narratives inevitably lead to massive imagined payola conspiracies lol

This is still a lovely album.

I guess this really should have gone in a Walls thread. But there isn't one.

So-called Oceangaze or Glo-Fi duo Walls remix 'Poor Places' by Wilco

this band sucks

u have a Joanna Newsom interview up there 2, A+

Rewatched the I Am Trying To Break Your Heart documentary last week (the whole thing's up on YouTube), and have been listening to the album again a lot since. I wish they could have found room for Venus Stop The Train (from the demo release) on it, maybe instead of Radio Cure. All good, though. I think the documentary is better when you've already heard the album a few times.

Oh jeez, Radio Cure's my favorite track off that record.

...and apparently it got 0 votes in the YHF tracks poll so nobody else thinks it's great. : (

xpost yeah, it's a great doc. kind of wish there was more "in studio" stuff, rather than the bennett/record label narrative, but that's probably just me.

This is a lovely record, aye, and there's no shame in liking it. Just don't treat it as either the end, or the beginning, of pop music.

But didn't they have a song called Pop is Dead?

Just don't treat it as either the end, or the beginning, of pop music.

This rule should apply to pretty much ever record ever.

in general, yes, but as ilx's resident Wilco stan i can say will full confidence that Yankee Hotel Foxtrot truly is the beginning and end of pop music

ksh, how do you rate Radio Cure and what is the best song from this album in your estimation?

But didn't they have a song called Pop is Dead?

― Otherwise you're kinda being comp-lit in his racism. (kkvgz)

Wilco's big hit was "Exit Music (For A Documentary Film)" iirc

"Radio Cure" is solid for sure -- it's like a later career "Dash 7" -- but the best song on the record is, probably, a three-way tie between "Ashes of American Flags," "Poor Places," and "Reservations"

Wilco's best record is a ghost is born, though, so fuck all this noise

live version of "Ashes of American Flags" from Kicking Television, ending in a not-on-the-studio-record Nels Cline guitar solo is also quite excellent

best track on this album is either IATTBYH or Poor Places

best Wilco song is Handshake Drugs

science

best Wilco song is Handshake Drugs

LJ, you are a good dude, but this is COMPLETELY FUCKIN WRONG

also Less Than You Think is awesome

I may be expressing them to rile, but I actually hold these opinions

LTYT -> The Late Greats is some sequencing genius

Radio Cure is best Wilco song

xpost

"Less Than You Think Is" awesome, and the fact that it goes straight into "The Late Greats" to end the record is great

the best Wilco song, though, is "At Least That's What You Said"

Ha ha ha! Good humour abounds because the sun's out and it's a Friday... but really everyone knows Summerteeth is the album right?