Need Decent Headphones (OT?)

(FWIW, I bought my Grados from Oranges & Lemons in Battersea; they were very friendly and let me play with the equivalent Beyers and Sennheisers for about an hour before I plumped for the SR-125s. I was running them off Naim gear. This was about 8 years ago, I don't even know if the store is still there).

My experience of non-IEMs is zero, Portapros aside, as I said upthread, so perhaps I can ask a couple of questions here that I'd be embarassed to ask on head-fi: how do open headphones 'feel'? What are the advantages over closed-back ones? And how much do they leak/how much external sound comes in? It would be quite nice to be able to hear people knocking on my office door if I'm wearing them, which I'm guessing will be fine, but do they require a near-silent background?

EXACTLY - and I love my ER-6Is for this reason alone

Yeah, the redesigned Apple headphones that come with all the new iPod models (introduced last month, I think?) are much better overall in reproducing bass sounds - at least to these ears.

They look like this:
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/ma662_alt.jpg

I ask only b/c the earbuds that came with my iPod fit my ears perfectly, but the fatter earbuds I have now keep sliding out...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Unique-headphone-stand-suitable-for-Grado-Sennhesier_W0QQitemZ300039980790QQihZ020QQcategoryZ88433QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

KSC-75s are pretty much king of the performance/price ratio

they sounded on par with if not better than my SR60s when I had them

and this headfi thread where people put them on a par with the MS-1 etc:

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168328

Are these people crazy?! Or is there no point bothering with anything else under $100?

The single best value-for-money headphone on the market is, I think, the KSC-75 - those $13 headphones sound better than most $150 Sony headphones. However, they are clip-on, with shitty build quality, etc etc etc.

My favourite headphones in the world are probably the Koss PortaPros. They cost about $50. The sound is similar to the KSC-75s (i've even heard they use the same drivers), but because of how they are built they are super comfortable, easy to use, and sound fucking great. It's a really fun sound, a little bass-heavy but awesome for walking around the city in, not tiring to listen to, etc etc. For "serious listening" it's not as good as more expensive Senns or Grados or AKGs or whatever, obviously, but it's my favourite

Good point - the exchange rate wasn't so £-favourable in 1998, but I still paid over the odds for the SR-125s. Bit suspicious of "EQing differently for musicians" (which musicians? Those that have lost their hearing above 10k?).

The fatiguing aspect of my Grados was never the sound but the uncomfortable standard pads - I replaced these with more doughnut-like pads about three years ago (from Needle Doctor) and it seemed like the sound improved too. Perhaps the Alessandros are more comfy as standard (I think new Grados have these larger pads).

From what I understand, the MS-1s are tweaks of the SR-60s. You should probably take that with a pinch of salt, though!

I'm wondering if I actually need something completely different to the Grados, actually. Am I right in getting the impression that they're best for rock music? Nick says upthread:

I've got some Grado SR60s (for dancing on the landing), some Sennheiser HD595s (for laying on my bed)

I mostly listen to music while working, these days, and I guess I mostly listen to minimal house, jazz and experimental drone stuff; are the Grados all wrong for that?

(multiple x-posts, was writing this on and off while working).

Ha, imagine how I felt when I saw your name appearing during my head-fi browsing.

Since starting that last post I've listened to the new LCD soundsystem on the PortaPros and it sounded great, so perhaps any lack of detail was just due to shoddy vinyl rips before.

I would hope, really, that the better the headphone, the more capable of doing justice to any sort of music. It's not as if they use different monitors at Air or Abbey Road depending on whether it's a jazz quartet, an orchestra or a rock band (well, they sort of do, but the big buggers built into the walls of the control room remain the reference). I know you have to make compromises in the realm of affordable domestic audio, but Grados seem to do everything pretty well.

I agree with Jonesy re; "good for rock" - good headphones ought to be good for every genre! It's the "analytical, good soundstage" vs "exciting, upfront" difference that makes me keep two pairs of cans, not the genres I listen to.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=33144&doy=20m10

Lowers the tone a bit, I'm afraid (metaphorically speaking).

Correct. I own both just so if I'm walking to a gig or something and not taking a bag I can throw the KSC75s in my pocket whereas the PortaPros don't fit.

What does "best for rock music" actually mean?

Lots of things. But with regard to the Grados it's a very forward sound, like you're up there among the players, whereas the Sennheisers, say, are on the other end of the spectrum - a more laid back, glimmering kind of thing. Chamber music, piano, voice sound better to me on them.

I'm really curious about the 595s... Was looking for a pair of really comfortable cans about a year ago. Bought the Senn 590s but found the sound only so-so. The 595s were on my list as next to try but ultimately I spent a ton of money on some new Grados, and they've been fine really. I may spring for some supraaural pads I can wear with them, though.

I've found that Senns, especially, need a headphone amp to shine.

I am enjoying the 595s immensely, and got them super cheap via an Amazon seller too - only £80. Cheapest I've seen them otherwise is £110.

Having skimmed that interview with John Grado on Head-fi, I see that they're a company with just 17 employees and his tastes have driven the development of their range - and he's a bit of an old rocker, so there you go. I liked his comment about testing stuff from CD (even though Grado manufacture high-end cartridges) - "if it sounds this good off CD, you know it'll sound even better on vinyl". I'm no digiphobe but I sort of know what he means.

Lots of things. But with regard to the Grados it's a very forward sound, like you're up there among the players, whereas the Sennheisers, say, are on the other end of the spectrum - a more laid back, glimmering kind of thing. Chamber music, piano, voice sound better to me on them

This is interesting because the thing that really put me off the Senns was a kind of artificial sheen to everything - a zinging brightness. I don't know what model they were now - whatever was retailing around £100-150 eight years ago. I was very sensitive to that at the time (I felt it was main failing of my Marantz/Audiolab set-up). But high-end Senns I've heard since didn't seem to suffer from this.

The supraaural replacement pads for the Grados are a godsend.

For me, they're my "laying on my bed, taking a piece of music apart" headphones - soundstage is certainly better than Grados, but I've only had them a wekk (they're in a corner of my office being burnt in with Sonic Youth all day today). Slightly reserved, detailed, relaxed, great control too. The melange of sound at the climax of Cop Shoot Cop by Spiritualized was awesome - I could pick out every instrumental thread with ease and follow them.

But if you're inflexible, I've heard ok things about The Plug, by Koss.

They're more detailed and crisp than the SR80s, much less blaring, with a wider soundstage. And they're made of wood blah blah blah. (I've not actually done much A/B testing.) They were being sold for $200.

I'm told they resemble the SR325s but I've never tried SR325s let alone SR225s - other than 5 mins with a pair of SR125s in a shop, the SR80s are the 'best' other Grados I've listened to.

To be honest I was disappointed with the relative difference between the SR80s (or my Senns) and the HF1s - there's such a massive jump between cheapo headphones, Portapros, and then the SR-80s, but above that the law of diminishing returns seems to be come in. They're definitely much better headphones, but I can't see myself becoming a big advocate for upgrading from SR-80s if you're watching your finances. (Whereas I encourage everyone with a walkman to spend the $50 for a pair of PortaPros.)

If you're looking for 'where to go' past SR-80s or the equivalent Alessandros, at this point I'd be more likely to suggest investing in Senn HD650s or something - i.e. a mid-range Sennheiser as an alternative to the Grado sound. Your 595s will be more than halfway there, mind.

As for me, I've decided that headphones for 'different uses' is more important than headphones for 'different sounds'. I'm likely to always use the same ones when I'm at home, not switch it up based on material or whatever. But it's great to have walking around headphones, home-listening headphones and isolating long-bus-trip headphones. In a year or two I'm thinking about IEMs to replace my Senn HD280s in the last category.

Man, this is such a nerdy conversation.

Scarily I was viewing it as a relaxing break from talking about maths.

Nick - I guess I'm wondering how the 595s compare to the Grados. I'll be interested to hear what you think of the MS-1s when they arrive, too.

But it's great to have walking around headphones, home-listening headphones and isolating long-bus-trip headphones.

Absolutely - and I feel like I just can't justify having two pairs for home-listening. Part of me does wonder about the whole diminishing-returns thing, and whether the differences between headphones are actually rather smaller than some head-fiers seem to think. But when I start thinking along those lines I start wondering whether it's even worth upgrading from the PortaPros (the rest of the time, of course, I'm thinking about getting custom earmolds etc etc).

For home listening I got the AKG K701 a few months back, and am very happy with them.

I am a bit sceptiocal because some of their offers seem to be achieved by exaggerating the RRP then lopping a bit off.