funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

And to be clear, the more this music sounds like Grime in that it becomes a functional MC based music.

I don't mind the synths and horns from Grime, but I'm just done with MC music. No more.

this might be an opportune moment to mention that i'm really not down with rewinds in club sets and have never really gotten used to it. last thing i want when i recognise a beloved anthem is to stop and start again. LET THE MUSIC PLAY.

I don't think that funky is turning into grime exactly - though certainly it is like grime in some senses. But I think the better comparison point (which Siah hints at) is dancehall - its balance between dancing and "rapping" (and a sing-songy quality equally drawn from populist dance and R&B) feels persistent in the same way that it does in dancehall, like there's some secret emulsifying ingredient that keeps these qualities in co-existent suspension rather than passing into conflict with one another.

One way of measuring the difference is in the (again, the word seems appropriate) persistent danceability of funky. In terms of garage's transformation into grime, and more precisely the shift from productions/DJs to MCs, the writing ought to have been on the wall way back with "Pulse X", which was danceable but only incidentally and fitfully so. By contrast funky has created a vital role for MCs while never retreating from its status as dance music (although certainly it has retreated from its status as house music, albeit in an asymmetrical manner), and this translates into the approach of MCs. On the DJ Petchy 23 March set just posted on Dissensus (I'll copy the link here) there's a real sense of party time jollity and fun that existed in garage only fleetingly. Whereas in garage that moment was only a transitional side-effect, in funky this is central and crucial.

Perhaps each genre in this process of development partially learns from the "mistakes" of its forebears, in turn opening itself up to new risks-of-sudden-transformation. Garage was wise to the risk of over-abstraction by watching what happened to jungle (though this trend later reared its head in the guise of dubstep) but was caught instead by hip hop's gravitational pull (in the form of grime). I have a strong suspicion that if funky rapidly transforms into something else, it won't be grime mark II, but something else and relatively unexpected.

Of course dancehall, which feels like it's at the centre of all these sounds (jungle, garage, grime, funky), is always a benevolent force on all these styles, IMO.

Totally NOT interested in following Wonder/Geeneus/Perempay down their rabbit holes, sorry Siah.

On the radio vs club as medium debate, I'd say (and this is said with the full knowledge that i'm hardly in a position to talk authoritatively about uk funky clubbing) that the music is poised between the two mediums, that both are massively influential to the development of the genre. So many awesome tunes are designed to work with MCs (listen to e.g. Marcus Nasty and Bassboy's "Shitta" without an MC and it sounds so... empty. With an MC it sounds amazing) and that's much more a radio thing than a club thing.

Also, NB. this facebook comment from DJ Maksin of Funkystepz: " last show on rinsefm i played 2 hours straight of funkystepz tracks how much producers or production team can do that. "

oooh i need to hear that set.

i love geeneus and i even like wonders sets but i dont want to hear JUST that from funky/uk house. that would be boring. its like only listening to grime and only checking for dumpvalve and ignoring anything from davinche, bossman (ironically) or mr slash etc.

my only issue with mcing is that i do think topsy and guys like that - good as they are - possibly impose themselves too much on sets sometimes. i like them a lot but it does almost feel like post-grime-meets-old-school-hosting-mcing on funky instrumentals cos sometimes they just mc too much and dont let the tracks breathe. with grime thats great - you want an assault of mcing but less so with funky, for me. which is why i like rankins approach which is just to spit a few select verses over and over so you dont really have to listen to him so much once you know them and just listen to the track hes floating on.

*so you dont really have to listen to him so much once you know the lyrics. you can just listen to the track hes floating on.

i wouldnt say this music sounds like grime at all though - there arent many THAT mc tracks. and there are too many good ones to write them off. my main thing with funky is actually that the vocal tunes just arent up to par. id like to hear more cut up todd edwards style funky than full on songs at this point just cos a lot of the ones im hearing really dont stick in the brain.

"I was under the impression that this music was primarily meant to be heard in clubs, but thanks to Titchy for pointing out where I've been going wrong."

n/p. let us know your thoughts when you next hit up a funky night, club connoisseur.

It's funny with that new Petchy set because you have Topsy trading verses with Shantie, which demonstrates I think how open and inclusive the approach to MCing is here.

Titchy what do you think of Miss Fire?

on the whole i have to go with marcus' comments the other week that most funky female vocalists just sound like girls off the street. which isnt a bad thing of course, but they write like girls off the street. and it seems like with garage, where you had producers that knew how to write songs, the new lot dont seem to and seem to just let the singers do whatever they want (i could be totally off base of course, but if i am, that would be even more dissapointing), so they unleash these rambling torrents of lyrics without much care for a shapely melody. but anyway, i do quite like 'fallin' by miss fire, even though i think i like it more for its vibe (same for take off your clothes) and the track than for it being a great song. i feel the same way about a lot of funky vocals, even stuff like 'put your hands all up on me', its almost catchy but not quite there, but it has a nice sensualist kind of vibe about it.

typically after posting that i have fallin stuck in my head lol

xxxpost - i kinda agree with lex about rewinds. it can get fucking annoying. one is good. but often it really just ends up disrupting the flow of a set. with grime this was esp annoying, just as mcs would get momentum theyd fucking pull it up and we'd be back where we were five mins ago. with them maybe it was a way of getting a break, but with djs, i find it can often be less of a tease/anticipation building device than just a way of making the dj feel important (half the time it just seems arbitrary too, rather than a real legitimate response to a crowd).

as a funky new jack/dilettante i'm really enjoying being forced to largely forgo mp3's and song id's as a way-in to the genre. it could just be something corny about anonymity or "authenticity," but as someone who tends to get caught up on being in-touch it's a nice break from letting myself get into the bullshit and just skip taking the bus home and walk for forty five minutes.

Ahhhh what is that amazing DJ Naughty-ish tune with the "Follow me!... That funky sound! That funky funky sound!" lyric? SO AMAZING. Is it in fact D'explicit ft. Sweets - "Follow Me (DJ Naughty Remix)", or is it something else?

TIP: Rudimental ft. Shantie MC - Midnight

TOP TUNE.

Also: Lil' Silva - Better Off As Friends. Overbearing and apocalytpic in a sense you kind of always feared and yet somehow passes through the pain to discover a zone of discomforting pleasure beyond the shame threshold.

Okay dudes just focus for a second on HOW FUCKING GOOD this is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA0wfeUVliQ

Okay, I like that one. Its got the same rhythmic structure as a lot of recent beats but it has some sense of restraint.

I seriously can't handle swung snares clipping constantly in MP3s, its completely sonically exhausting. Hurts my ears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ir-249JafE&feature=related

DJ Gregory's last couple of releases might as well have been Funky BTW.

THIS IS THE ONE. SMI - 60 Hertz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvwAynp56w

i wish so so so much there was a definitive series of funky CD comps named after this thread

'funky house sceptics let me draw your attention to this....vol 11'

http://vimeo.com/9896802

Marcus's April 7 is massive, banger after banger after banger after banger. So many great mixing moments too.

Also Devine Collective's "House Girls Part 8" or whichever number it is!!

link?

http://relay.exequo.org/rinsefm/podcast/MarcusNasty7410.mp3

And here's Ghetts' "Moonwalk Ting":

http://www.mediafire.com/?rnddmmmjboz

Also this Champion pre (mini) album mix is hot hot hot:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/a2jrxx

hi fidelity for those who care about such things. And not as heavy on "Lighter" style tunes as i'd feared, a really nice mix.

Dubstep types surely will pick up on this dude in seconds.

http://www.factmag.com/2010/04/09/the-month-in-bass-7/2/

slackk is obv part of the dissensus web fratnernity, same as bok bok and co, but hey, i actually like some of these tracks. the wiley sampling ones are a bit too rough for me to think of them as anything other than grime refixes (he should send them to maximum and karnage or whoever) but this lonely song is great. great vocal. memorable hook. better than a lot of funky tunes. big!

and house girls part 209 or whatever is sick!

abacus is also good too though ironically like lonely, even tho he says hes not into kismet and circle (like me) i can totally see them playing these. too

There is nothing more vibesy in music right now than Last Supper (Petchy/Topsy/Shantie/Dream) radio sets. Titchy it makes me want to agree with you that people who don't recognise the superiority and centrality of radio sets in uk funky have totally screwy taste.

Link to the Petchy/Topsy/Shantie 17 April set stolen from Dissensus:

http://www.mediafire.com/?tdekkztwwel

Sorry Tim, but Ghetts moonwalk ting was POO !

So if the champion pre mix (currently on the deelo) isnt HOT, then imma seriously question your sanity :)

tim if you get a chance check out the guy whos on live fm on saturday nights from around 1am. i caught some of it this weekend and it was pretty excellent. no mcs, but i like that. petchy sets can sometimes be too overstuffed with mcs. will check out that latest set tho.

"There is nothing more vibesy in music right now than Last Supper (Petchy/Topsy/Shantie/Dream) radio sets."

It's definitely got the raw pirate vibe but Shantie is so much better an MC than Topsy, who's basically the funky equivalent of Dog-Z from OT shouting over a house beat. It's quite surreal at times and typical of pirate radio that it can slip from sublime to ridiculous within a hair's musical breadth.

No Topsy is brilliant! Love him to bits.

OK praps i was a little harsh, as he's enthusiasm over skill but he is definitely closer to Dog-z than Shantie.

it's funny how the show's such a mix of different traditions: at the intro it's pure UKG in spirit - chatting about girls and raves - with Topsy DJing fairly straight house tracks. Then Shantie comes along and gives it some UKG host flavour, all very smooth, over some rougher, uk funky beats. Then by the middle Topsy's totally overhyped and is spitting bars for reloads and it's utterly grime in spirit - kinda exactly what one sector of funky/dubbage/LDN house doesnt want to be.

I think what I like is how inclusive it is. A lot of those tracks really are very straight house, and it's odd to think of Dream/Topsy/Shantie as a self-reinforcing "team" (all shouting the punchlines to eachothers' bars in the background - this is my favourite thing actually) when Dream/Topsy have such a grime/post-grime feel and Shantie is straight UKG host.

Unlike when So Solid became big there's no sense of there being a line drawn in the sand - Topsy doesn't come along at the expense of Shantie.

At the same time, it's not self-consciously "eclectic" like the Heartless Crew. There's still a single aesthetic at work (just an elastic one).

to my surprise i agree with martin clark. topsys just loud lairy and unshutupabble on these sets. just like dog-z. who i like, but on funky, it just seems wrong. you want a bit more panache. like rankin or shantie. or even jme. someone needs to shut the mic off on topsy from time to time. i know admitting this would jar with your 'everything about funky is immense' worldview tim, lol, but i find it hard to listen to petchy sets cos of topsy.

But everything about funky is immense!

Topsy kinda swings between being inspired (in a non-panache, idiot savant kinda way) and annoying for me. I don't want him to chant "Jerry Rankin! Jerry Rankin!" over and over again, but I love his stuttering rhymes. "You gonna need the b-b-boys in blue!"

Probably my favourite Last Supper member is actually Dream, who always seemed like he was on the soft end of grime and now feels perfectly poised on the just-a-bit-hard end of funky. Love that rhyme which is like "She said 'Dream you're an idiot/nobody will buy that t-shirt'/I said 'check the Facebook/DO YOUR RESEARCH!"

"to my surprise i agree with martin clark."

ohthehorror!

:D

i like both topsy and majestic in small doses (ie if they spread the verses a bit less liberally over sets) but topsy is just an irritating guy (maybe more irritating than majestic - sorry tim). im gonna listen to the new petchy set just to make sure i still feel this way. but the reason im hesitant is he totally fucking BURIES the tracks in his avalanche of verbiage. i like to hear the tracks breathe a bit. the mc with t man on sat nights is also good but i forget his name.

geeneus & katy b's "good life" cover and the roska remix of "quicktime" have been set free - http://twitter.com/RinseFM/status/12573185750

really feeling these trax - some have been floating around for longer than others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ2twPVjj9Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SPMRtMqmgI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKBamM9kxyc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUvMCDLq8FI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jturruPAcoU

girl unit one is pretty big

Girl Unit is not my kinda thing but "Play Di Ting" is a huge tune. Lex you'd probably also really like Footsteps' "Rewind", which has a similar vibe only on an R&B rather than dancehall tip.

ikonika played "play di ting" at girl unit's single launch party tonight! it went offff

girl unit meanwhile closed with ciara's "speechless" <3 <3 <3

i cant stop listening to Champion's mix of Craig David from Chosen Ones, did this one get much attention?

Hearing Ikonika play Jam City Ecstasy remix @ Night Slugs last night was great.

Illmana's "Kiss You" downloadable here. AWESOME TUNE:

http://soundcloud.com/illmana/illmana-ft-tamzin-kiss-you

i really wish his "ready fi de war" with stush was available properly somewhere!!

Devine Collective's "Touch Her In The Morning" possibly the biggest banger of all the bangers they've done in 2010 so far (though hard to choose when they've all been so great).

This is the one with the string riffs and the minor key synth work (like Mario's "Mario Play The Bloodclaart Bass") and the R&B vocals "I touch her in the morning... NO LIES! NO LIES!"

Meanwhile the Roska album is actually really good!

Concentrated with relatively harder tracks that I think go a decent way towards recapturing the energy and dynamism (and sheer syncopation) of his early work ("Tomorrow Is Today", "Squark", "Timestamp"), while the vocal tracks (the two Jamie George tracks we already know, "Energy" and "I Need Love") are all just really well done, softer and sleeker without sacrificing his distinctiveness as a producer. And the album feels varied (repetitiveness being the ever-present danger of having such a worked-out production approach) without needlessly venturing off into "proper" techno / dubstep / grime / house / etc. Ironically the result ends up standing up much better next to, say, Carl Craig's Landcruising than an outright attempt to ape that feel would have been able to.

It's telling that Marcus Nasty has played heaps of tracks off the album - whereas I've never heard him play, like, "The Shepherd" or the Untold remix. "I Need Love" is practically an anthem at this stage.

haha i thought the roska album was really bloody boring - didn't help that it was released in the same week as the ~genius 4eva~ ikonika album i guess.

I wouldn't say I feel the opposite - I don't think the Ikonika album is "really bloody boring" and I do like tracks like "They Are All Losing The War", "Video Delays", "Look" and "Red Marker Pens". If I was patient with it I'd probably end up finding the whole album rewarding. But I guess as a general rule that style does very little to hook me and I have to restrain myself from switching over to something else very quickly. Whereas I thought I was definitely going to feel the same with the Roska album and I'm surprised that I don't.

Actually the one track on the Roska album that makes me impatient is "Messages" which is the most erm "funkstep" moment there.

That said I'd be interested to know if you were surprised at being bored by the Roska album, Lex. Do you particularly like much of his prior work other than "Our Father" (not some kind of trick question - I just know you really like that one)?

I'd find it odd for someone who likes his work generally not to be pleased with this album as I think it totally plays to his strengths, unless they'd actually wanted him to go for some kind of traditionalist detroit techno or funkstep vibe, or maybe they'd wanted the bangers to be more straightahead and less syncopated (so more in the "Our Father" / "Gone To A Better Place" / "In Your Handbag" vein) - maybe you would have liked the latter more?

I think maybe the "problem" with Roska's syncopation (when he works in this mode) is that it makes the tracks so tense rhythmically that they can't actually generate the same kind of free-sprint energy that a more straightforward rhythmic matrix allows, except in the mix where that energy is generated by the huge friction with the surrounding tracks. Even say "Climate Change" (still my sentimental favourite Roska tune) sounds a lot less dynamic as a standalone track than when it's used well in the mix. I guess this is a truism though.

Meanwhile Funkystepz have provided a download like for their Rihanna "Rude Boy" remix, which I've gone from thinking is a middling effort for them to totally loving. The way the beat breaks down so gratuitously during the "what you want want want" section is marvelous and very typical of their um generosity as producers.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qoajra