Most shocking Rock & Roll Hall of Fame snubs (according to CNN.com)

You did misinterpret...and the more stuff/wider context argument applies no less to my loss of enthusiam for Alice Cooper. For one thing, I discovered the New York Dolls (after the fact--I was barely aware of them in '73), and realized that they were doing some of the same things as Alice Cooper but a trillion times better.

xxxp

I'm not saying every band did this in the '70s. I'm sure it depended on the label, producer, etc. But I do think that if those AC and BOC records were being made nowadays, they would have likely gone with a heavier, more distorted guitar sound, just because that's what the audience expects.

too bad alice cooper and BOC didn't use horrible Line 6 pedals and Galien Kruger amps, i guess modern cats will never dig them

For one thing, I discovered the New York Dolls (after the fact--I was barely aware of them in '73), and realized that they were doing some of the same things as Alice Cooper but a trillion times better.

yeah they really improved on alice cooper band by being less creative, having way less range, worse songwriting, and being way worse players

and i like the NY Dolls but they really only made one good album and a handful of other good tracks, plus all their songs are exactly one minute too long

Think this was a conscious choice on BOC's part-- they were even being billed as the 'American Black Sabbath' and surely if they had wanted to mimic Iommi's nightmarish gtr tone they could have.

"Way worse players"--yes, I do believe you may be right there. They were also worse than Gentle Giant!

guyz this is what the rock and roll hall of fame does to us -- makes us start saying "this dude is better than that dude." ;_;
Alice Cooper and Neil Young are both great! I love them both!

Man, call in Rodney King.

xpost

of course now that you're faced with 5 classic alice albums and one and a half great NY Dolls albums all your fantasy baseball stats are out the window correct?

http://4tenderheart.com/HUGS_001.JPG

Back up, Yojimbo--I think I made it clear earlier that there are special cases like the Pistols and Velvets. And the Dolls definitely join them in that category.

It's the Sandy Koufax category.

so, relief pitchers

pinch runners

You know, yeah, Gentle Giant were super intricate, but they were also concise. They never did a track longer than 7 minutes iirc. They had hook-sense and killer vocals. If you want to find a precursor for King Crimson's Discipline it's GG.

/sermon

ie there are better scapegoats for the 'empty skillz' tag

kinda of like if sandy koufax pitched one season and half the games he stumbled on the mound drunk, punked on himself, threw a beer bottle at someone and then went home

And by the way, you seem to assume that your 5-vs.-1.5 scoring is correct. Hard as it may be for you to believe, there are people such as myself who'd score it 2-0 for the Dolls.

what the hell are you guys talking about

lol punked on himself

where do coaches fit into this amazing analogy

Think this was a conscious choice on BOC's part

It may have been. I'm reminded of the way Muddy Waters was recorded by Chess in the late '40s. His live show was undoubtedly much louder, more raucous and more rockin' than what got recorded, because Chess didn't let him use his live band and insisted on him playing acoustic tracks without drums, because that's what they thought would sell. It may have worked at the time, but now when you listen back to that era, you wish you could hear what his live band sounded like instead.

New York Dolls... were doing some of the same things as Alice Cooper but a trillion times better.

Emphasis on "some of." (Also, I love the Dolls, but no they weren't.)

haha i just punkd myself

btw jon lewis is bringing some street prog GG knowledge

Let me apologize to Jon Lewis--I used to own Gentle Giant's double-live, and yes, they had some catchy songs. There was one I really liked--"Playing the Fool"? Anyway, they've just become kind of a quick and easy punchline for me over the years; if it's the '80s, I use Doctor & the Medics, the '60s Freddie & the Dreamers. But you're right.

seriously though, next time you listen to the dolls keep that "minute too long" thing i said, a friend told me that and i've never been able to ignore it, like the tracks are just too long

xpost I usually use Triumvirat for this purpose.

Gorge breaks it down:

Rick Moody defends Gentle Giant

With all this talk about prog and epics maybe it's time there was a GENTLE GIANT ALBUMS POLL

Emphasis on "some of." (Also, I love the Dolls, but no they weren't.)

Um, yes they were. (Wow, that was easy.)

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/alicecooper-golf.jpg
can't we all just get along?

Jesus, Rodney's aged.

is there a good johanson pic in the "show me pictures of men that look like old lesbians thread"?

ugh what the hell is going on in here

Heh that Rick Moody Defends GG thread is pretty nice. And the Sherman Hemsley payoff is super whoa! Thanks for linking it xhuxk.

gentle giant ruled, and alice cooper stomps on the dolls in pretty much every category

plus as woeful as some late period alice is, if you contrast it against the output of buster poindexter i am pretty sure where the points are going to fall

We've found a point of agreement, Bigalow; next to David J., Alice practically looks like GQ fodder these days.

"alice cooper stomps on the dolls in pretty much every category"

So true. The Dolls weren't Sandy Koufax, they were Bo Belinsky.

watching phish play genesis' "watcher in the skies" to an audience of iggy pop and meryl streep was certainly a WTF moment. no-one appeared to be having a good time.

I like the Bo Belinsky connection--he was married to Mamie Van Doren, and no one captures the spirit of the Dolls better than Mamie Van Doren--but I must issue forth with a very resigned sigh and vacate this madhouse for a while.

Before you go, Clemenza, one thing: leave the gun, take the cannoli.

xp But at least one musical artist was more Mamie Van Doren-like than the Dolls:

http://www.discogs.com/Mamie-Van-Doren-State-Of-Turmoil/release/1225710

Mostly German Old Used 45s That Metal Mike Saunders Mailed To Me

Bill--te salute!

I prefer the dolls but c'mon ppl if there's one thing every rock nerd learns young it's "don't even start with ppl who are really into alice cooper" -- it's like asking your dad what he thinks about the president: you really wanna spend the rest of the evening hearing the answer?

I didn't put you through college to sit here and listen to this bullshit!

M@tt I could kiss you for making me lol so hard

remove the lol from that sentence and we're talkin.

why don't you come over here and remove it yourself big boy

let's not turn this into a Rush thread guys

I thought J0hn and matt were quoting KISS lyrics again.