Killing Joke - Classic Or Dud, Search And Destroy

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Now, was that really necessary?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 14 December 2002 00:55 (twenty-three years ago)

slap on a Pixies or Cheap Trick album and celebrate the meaningless and banal.

I cant speak for Cheap Trick, but Pixies lyrics are some of the best in rock history.

― David Allen, Saturday, 14 December 2002 01:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, David, but do they *MEAN* anything?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 14 December 2002 01:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex, if that pic is really you, I'll happily go out and buy even "Outside the Gate".

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 December 2002 01:55 (twenty-three years ago)

No, here's an actual picture of me:

http://216.127.66.72/a/albums/albun09/aab.sized.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 14 December 2002 02:01 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/snakes_left.gif http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/kjbanner1.GIF http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/snakes_right.gif

― the gathering (vassifer), Saturday, 14 December 2002 05:16 (twenty-three years ago)

What are those things bookending the logo? Green onions?

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 14 December 2002 05:55 (twenty-three years ago)

the irony is that after Bjork, Damon Albarn and Sigur Ros, Iceland will be the LEAST safe place to be if the rapture comes.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 14 December 2002 19:36 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex I love Killing Joke more than the average bear but their lyrics are just slightly above-par, not loaded with meaning or anything...c'mon now. We can honour the fire without pretending like it's hotter than it actually is.

― J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Sunday, 15 December 2002 20:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't maintain that their lyrics are categorically flawless (I can think of some real cringe-worthy zinger-of-a-couplets, notably in "America" and "Adorations," let alone "Tabazan.") My point was that invariably there was a message *BEHIND* each song (for the most part)...a theme, if you will, beyond mere typical angst-riddled banalities.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 15 December 2002 22:17 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, David, but do they *MEAN* anything?

yes, no, maybe so -- and that's an important part of what makes them good.

I'll take even midly evocotive nonsense over almost anything too pat and linear.

― Aaron A., Sunday, 15 December 2002 22:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Fair enough, but I'd never call Killing Joke pat nor linear, despite their conceptual agenda.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 15 December 2002 22:40 (twenty-three years ago)

Fiery Fucking Roller's post, above, can be decoded into a an almost intelligent and clever little jab about the philosophical stance of KJ and its shared roots with Aryanism. I just realized this after reading about JRRT's background (and a rather nice comparison by the NYT writer between the armies in LOTR:TT and Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will.). Nietszche sure does get around these days.

― Tom Millar (Millar), Tuesday, 17 December 2002 06:12 (twenty-three years ago)

:::rolling eyes and sighing:::::

Please....I don't know where these allegations come from, but Killing Joke are **NOT** Aryan white supremacists. Maybe they're not the nicest guys in the world, but they're not racist rabble-rousers. You're thinking of Skrewdriver.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 17 December 2002 16:07 (twenty-three years ago)

"I don't know where these allegations come from, but Killing Joke are **NOT** Aryan white supremacists"

The only possible reason I can think of off hand is a rather unfortunate photo shoot for one of the weekly music papers around the time "Revelations" came out, which involved the paraphernalia from certain freemasonry rituals....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 17 December 2002 16:53 (twenty-three years ago)

You must mean this highly unfortunate photo. Nice `tache, Jaz:

http://music.dartmouth.edu/~dupras/kj/d.gallery/d.band/d.lrg/KJ.NME.1982.lrg.jpg

Maybe I don't know enough about Freemasonry, but I gathered it had more to do with the occult than with Aryanism/white supremacy.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 17 December 2002 20:44 (twenty-three years ago)

I never quite understood how that was supposed to work myself to be honest Alex, although the Freemasons were definitely on Hitler's list of undesireables (something to do with their roots going back to the Crusades and the Knights Of St John I think) and they have a tendency to get a bit hysterical and start making all sorts of accusations when (they think) people are attacking them.

Honour The Set Square And Compass.... and those nice little little aprons!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 17 December 2002 21:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I didn't say they were Aryan white supremacists. I said they shared phil. roots w/ Aryan thought, basically two different readings of Nietszche - this conversation's silly. Never mind.

― Tom Millar (Millar), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

three weeks pass...

Dr C you've had almost 2 years now of living under a 7 year curse - how's it going?

― Tom (Groke), Friday, 10 January 2003 14:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Bloody awful - i got a flat tyre on the car this very morning, for example. That's the curse at work! AND there was no milk in the fridge when I got back from the tyre place. My life is a misery!

With the weather like it is at the moment - I'm busy honouring the fire.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Dr C = honour the fire extinguisher

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Friday, 10 January 2003 15:09 (twenty-three years ago)

"We can honour the fire without pretending like it's hotter than it actually is."

Editor place acronym for LAUGHING OUT LOUD here.

― Paula G., Friday, 10 January 2003 15:42 (twenty-three years ago)

In the many moons since this initial debate, Dr.C has long since gone on to distinguish himself as a man of knowledge and taste, thus his lack of appreciation for Killing Joke is hereby overlooked, and all hexes, curses, fatwas and prices on his head have been lifted.

Paula G., meanwhile, has done nothing of the sort, and continues to spout whistle-headed nonsense (not least accusing the Joke of being Goths), so PISS OFF!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:03 (twenty-three years ago)

they are techno-goths, as all agree

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:04 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/jaz/jaz35.jpg

― Uncle Jaz (vassifer), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks Alex - is it safe for me to leave the house now? The REAL Dr. C will now appear at future FAPS, instead of that drunken imposter I've been sending in my place.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 10 January 2003 17:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I have come here just to post something because I feel a compulsion to post on the Iggy vs. the Corrs thread and I know that I mustn't

ooooooh stop me

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 11 January 2003 04:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I like "Stay One Jump Ahead". Bassline is FUNKEE!

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 11 January 2003 06:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Seriously, I do like the song. I don't know why.

― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 11 January 2003 06:59 (twenty-three years ago)

It's probably the best song on the album (really not saying much), but the "extended mix" (featuring a "rap") was enough to make me question the real merit of continuing on with life.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 11 January 2003 07:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex - your last post was for me the most hilarious conclusion to this monster thread. Much appreciated.

― paulc, Monday, 13 January 2003 21:42 (twenty-three years ago)

No charge.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 January 2003 21:54 (twenty-three years ago)

You know, after all of this, would it be foolish to admit that I for one am actually not very familar with Killing Joke? Is this what they call dishonoring the fire? Or am I simply ignorant of the fire?n

I just got Psychopharmacology though, Alex. I love it.

― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 13 January 2003 22:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Glad you like Firewater, who -- I feel -- are criminally underheralded (they shit from a great, splattery height on other NYC bands like The Walkmen and the like).

Killing Joke wise, I'm not going to get all winded about it. Seek out the first album......

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc300/c309/c309332s0t8.jpg

....and if that doesn't grab ya, don't bother pursuing it further.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 January 2003 22:13 (twenty-three years ago)

If Stay One Jump Ahead Had Been done by another band I'd probably like it.

If I'd only heard the version _without_ he rap I'd probably have liked it.

I've heard the rap. Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

And what Alex said about the first album, even though I prefer the second one myself.

― mei (mei), Monday, 13 January 2003 22:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Breakin' News, of sorts:

KILLING JOKE ACTUALLY MENTIONED IN THE N.M.E!!!!!

http://www.nme.com/news/103951.htm

Whoohoo!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 January 2003 18:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Neat how that article made no mention of the previous strife between them; had that already been long put behind them or something? (You would think that there would be more bad blood, esp. considering that picture upthread of Jaz stomping on Nirvana paraphernalia. His smug look in that pic, by the way, is enough to make me want to slug him.)

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 16 January 2003 19:07 (twenty-three years ago)

Grohl is purportedly playing on the forthcoming Killing Joke album. Grohl was also -- it should be rememberd -- the sixth or seventh drummer Nirvana had.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 16 January 2003 21:32 (twenty-three years ago)

one month passes...

Closer to classic than to dud. The 1st 3 records (s/t, What's This For...?, and Revelations) rate classic or damn close. The rest rate decent-to-good, with Fire Dances being my favorite from the post-Revelations Joke. The early stuff was heavy on the tribal/edgy/noisy approach, with later release tending a bit more toward dancey & notably less ferocious. IMHO as always........

― John Bullabaugh, Saturday, 8 March 2003 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

OMG OMG first-ever Alex in NYC post!

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 8 March 2003 16:27 (twenty-three years ago)

Re-submitted for your disapproval:

Tom chirped: "And is it just me or are they not anywhere near as heavy-sounding as they're made out to be." I dare say that without
Killing Joke, most of your precious "heavy sounding" bands wouldn't even exist. Killing Joke have indulged in a myriad of different
musical styles and sounds well beyond the monochromatic "heavy," yet when they choose to go that route, there is no one mightier.
To judge Killing Joke by one or two tracks is an excercise in blind-sighted stupidity. Do your homework before submitting an
opinion! Moreover, if you're put off by the conceptual/lyrical content of Killing Joke, why not toddle home and slap on a Pixies or
Cheap Trick album and celebrate the meaningless and banal. At least Killing Joke have something to say. You may not like it, agree
with it...or even understand it....but at least there something of substance there. Killing Joke credit their audience with higher
standards and a modicum of intelligence. Try getting that from Korn.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 8 March 2003 22:28 (twenty-three years ago)

It's a bit sweeping in its hyperbole, but I still stand by most of it -- although taking swats at the otherwise completely respectable Cheap Trick (to say nothing of the Pixies) was admittedly way offsides. I was talking more about lyrical content, but it just came out a bit misinformed and blowhardy. Ah well....I was younger and angrier then.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 8 March 2003 22:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I like them, but to consider them as a source point for hardcore music today is fairly rediculous.

― webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 18:59 (twenty-three years ago)

No it isn't (says Bryan doing his best John Cleese impression). Killing Joke is very inspirational to me. The guitar part from "Frenzy" is one of the best ever to practice to.

― Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 14 March 2003 19:07 (twenty-three years ago)

I mean they had lots of predecessors, what about PIL, Gang Of Four, Cabaret Voltair, Joy Division and even New Order.
i find it extremly hard to beleave that Jaz Dosen't even Like New Order, what about their synth rock/pop tracks? they weren't the first.

― webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:14 (twenty-three years ago)

shur they were inspirational! but i don't see them as the most inspirational Post Punk band.

― webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:15 (twenty-three years ago)

There were lots of Post punk bands that were far more inspirational for the "heavy sound" today than KJ, doesn't anyone see that?

note: i agree that Big Black owe A LOT to KJ.

― webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:24 (twenty-three years ago)

I didn't think I was trolling...

― Bryan (Bryan), Friday, 14 March 2003 19:48 (twenty-three years ago)

trolling? sorry, having hard time understanding your post. explain.

― webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:56 (twenty-three years ago)

what does "trolling" mean?

― webb, Friday, 14 March 2003 19:57 (twenty-three years ago)

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