New York Dolls

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just pulled out my dolls recs for the first time in years. good on them! was it christgau or [x] who pointed out the semantic brilliance of the chorus to "trash"?

except i wish they were recorded a bit better. where was mutt lange back then?

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 05:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i want mark s to come back to this thread.

and please god someone tell me why their first record always calls to mind "the pirates of penzance"!

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 05:58 (twenty-two years ago)

in theory i adore the dolls. in practice they've never quite done it for me.

johansen's entire performance on the first album is totally classic, especially his shangri-las rip on "looking for a kiss," but am i the only person who doesn't see what the big deal is about johnny thunders?

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Cool stuff on this thread. I'm not really a Dolls fan (it boils down to the songs, which I always found kinda half-assed and unremarkable). I like Johansen's early solo albums though.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh, crosspost with Justyn.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

actually now that i said that i realize that i like "born to lose" and "chinese rocks" more than any dolls song. i just don't see why everyone thinks he's such a fantastic guitarist, at least on the two dolls lps. he's not keith richards and he sure ain't steve jones.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:07 (twenty-two years ago)

i like the rhythm guitar sound but the lead guitar sound (is that thunders?) is sort of unvaried and wearing after awhile. i guess the idea is that it's all messy and stuff but even messiness should have its own internal logic and variation.

johnny thunders is like one of keith richard's musical tics made flesh.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:12 (twenty-two years ago)

They were sloppy. Put them up there with Radio Birdman in hugely revered bands with very poor rhythm sections and poorly recorded albums. Yeah, I like the Dolls well enough, but the albums sound like such crap its hard for me to get into them.

mark s is wrong: Black Sabbath invented goth! Or maybe it was Black Widow. I've never heard them though, so I'll say it was the Sabs.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:12 (twenty-two years ago)

thunders does some cool stuff on "jet boy" until the end when it gets kind of rote.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, Johansen is great in Let It Ride, seriously one of the funniest movies I've ever seen.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

He's dead, that's mostly the thing I always thought... "You Can't Put Yr Arms Around a Memory" is classic, yes?

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:15 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah what are those thunders solo records like? we shd do a johnny thunders classic or dud/search and destroy.

i really don't like his voice. johansen adds so much to the dolls i don't know why they bothered. it;s like that ccr album where the other people sing. what's the point?

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Well "Born to Lose" by the Heartbreakers is more memorable to me than any individual Dolls song. I get that in my head at odd random moments. I'm not sure if it's as good as "Johnny Thunder" by the Kinks though.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

(anytime anyone wants to tell me stop sounding like Eddy is fine)

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:19 (twenty-two years ago)

you DON'T sound like Eddy thank god. [/cheap shot]

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:29 (twenty-two years ago)

no, it's funny; I mean, he's totally a favorite of mine but I think that's because my mind tends to work in similar silly associative ways. Like I read Johnny Thunders and I think of the Kinks song and the Heartbreakers song. I get self-conscious if I write something like that though since he kind of oWNz0rS that style.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 13 June 2003 06:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Absolute classic. First album is pretty much their '72 live show in the studio, second album is the most awesome sound-effects record this side of Van Halen's debut. Among their many accomplishments, the Dolls invented 80s hairspray metal (yes, this was a good thing) and made it cool to be less-than-killer musicians, leading directly to the Ramones (merged with Hamburg-era Beatles) and the Sex Pistols (the Malcolm connection).

PS Alice Cooper mostly deserves credit/blame for turning rock concerts into a spectacle sport, although "Killer," "School's Out" and "Billion Dollar Babies" was as great a triple-crown run as the Replacements' "Let It Be," "Tim" and "Pleased To Meet Me."

― Chris Clark (Chris Clark), Friday, 13 June 2003 10:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Nico invented goth.

btw, Alice Cooper and the Dolls are two of my favorite bands, I'm surprised I didn't notice this thread the first time around. And yeah Cooper had the better singles, but I could never ever choose between the two.

― Sean (Sean), Friday, 13 June 2003 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

steve jones is a piss-terrible gtrist

― duane, Friday, 13 June 2003 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

even worse than the guy in the clash

― duane, Friday, 13 June 2003 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha - they're available at the iTunes store! Including a song I hadn't heard, "Lone Star Queen," into which Johansen stuffs almost all of the stylistic tics that have always made him so indispensible for me.

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 13 June 2003 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

oh duane, you are SO SO wrong.

(which guy in the clash?)

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 14 June 2003 05:24 (twenty-two years ago)

hi, my name is jess, and i have never liked the new york dolls. i have always thought there was something wrong with me until now. thank you.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 14 June 2003 05:37 (twenty-two years ago)

oh there's something wrong with you all right. but if you go listen to personality crisis, trash, and lookin' for a kiss everything will be alright.

― scott seward, Saturday, 14 June 2003 05:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah, jess is right on, they're overrated. Glad to see him here.

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 14 June 2003 06:43 (twenty-two years ago)

(but still, Johansen in Let It Ride = brilliant)

― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 14 June 2003 06:43 (twenty-two years ago)

(which guy in the clash?) um you know, the guitarist. steve jones tho - i like the sex pistols but oh man, don't you think he is one of the most unimaginative squares in the hist of the elec gtr...i didn't mean "terrible" like "can't play", just stodgy & undynamic...you know when he does stuff like that (bo diddley/pete townshend type) scrape along the strings thing, "raunchy" hi-energy takeoff sound as used by say for inst maybe the gtrist for pat benetar or someone - a real stiff!

― duane, Saturday, 14 June 2003 09:19 (twenty-two years ago)

the clash had two guitarists, Mick Jones and Strummer. I can see what you mean, S. Jones isn't the most interesting or original punk guitarist by a long shot, but I think his very direct style works for the Pistols' songs and Thunders' doesn't for the Dolls: as someone said upthread, it just sounds sloppy.

(haha Pat Benatar = OK by me)

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 15 June 2003 04:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, it was hott! Classic.

― Francis Watlington, Sunday, 15 June 2003 05:28 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i knew that about the clash really, i don't think joe strummer played much gtr on their records tho. also like someone else upthread said There's something genuinely expressive about Johnny Thunder's guitar playing. He solos all through the songs – often just distorted extended notes. It bears little relation to the 'acceptable' guitar playing of commercial radio; it's even 'decorative,' fragile, or delicate. It makes all the lyrics of the songs much more melancholy, because they're accompanied by this sporadic, almost contrapuntal, harmony. It doesn't sound like other music. I think the producers tried to make up for it by making these random notes really quiet except in the 'proper' places (at the end of the song usually) but you can still hear them, all the time – it's quite disturbing. I guess he's actually listening to what they sound like.

Johnny Thunders was the one who went on to make great music after the New York Dolls, in my opinion. , i agree although actually most johnny thunders solo albums are pretty bad i guess

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:37 (twenty-two years ago)

how do you all feel about buster poindexter?

― amateurist (amateurist), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i thought he sucked but i only remember seeing him on tv, i never listened to the actual records

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:45 (twenty-two years ago)

he's hot hot hot

― jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Criticizing the New York Dolls for sounding "sloppy" = Classic

― David Allen, Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:47 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah they could've tightened up & been as good as the clash or the sex pistols

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 06:51 (twenty-two years ago)

>how do you all feel about buster poindexter?

Thrilled that DavJoh finally made some money, although it figures it would come from extending "Stranded in the Jungle" into a full act.

>i don't think joe strummer played much gtr on their records tho

What?!? All that Telecaster dub-scratching/powerchord mania is him! Jones handled the Mott the Hoople lead lines and harmonic counterpoints. Both totally classic, as was Steve Jones, who merged Ramones chainsaw with Chuck Berry boogie (well, so did Eddie and the Hot Rods) to make the Pistols (dare I say it?) swing!

― Chris Clark (Chris Clark), Sunday, 15 June 2003 09:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Joe Strummer just played along unplugged while he sang, didn't he? He probably played a bit later, I suppose.

― Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 15 June 2003 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

there's good drumming & bass playing on the sex pistols stuff

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)

but i think that about the new york dolls too so

― duane (doorag), Sunday, 15 June 2003 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

classic, though I can see why some people aren't feelin' it and I probably like Aerosmith more. Though I'm surprised JBR likes the solo stuff but NOT the Dolls.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

why?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

cuz what I've got of the David Johnansen solo stuff (the first two albums and Live It Up) sounds slightly tired and stuffier (not unlike Lou Reed solo compared to Velvets, though the Dolls-to-DaJo shift was nowhere as severe), and the best songs all remind me of New York Dolls (and were usually Dolls leftovers). Woah, I'm having deja vu from that Walkmen thread.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the stuffiness. I like him better as a wizened late '70s soul-punk than a stoopid early '70s trash-punk... plus, I prefer the clear production on the solo recs, and the instrumentation (I'm a sucker for pianos in rock, especially when you can hear 'em out front like you can on songs like "Frenchette") and the songwriting. I know "maturity" is a dirty word around here but I think the mature Johansen is a pretty cool guy (yeah, even in his Buster years).

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll definitely agree that Johansen has never been not cool (and "Frenchette" is great).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I also want to give him bigs up for his film career. His goofy performances in films like Scrooged and Freejack (which features fellow simean-type Mick Jagger!) were great. Though I've never seen his star turn in the allegedly horrific Car 54, Where Are You?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

bigs up. yeesh.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

ten months pass...

The Dolls reunite. You can thank Morrissey.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 19 April 2004 17:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm totally digging the underground reunion fever, personally.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

all board the train of suck. next stop: suckness.

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't have the patience to read this whole thread but if no one said it before, Meltzer's take on the Dolls (opening chapter of A Whore Just Like The Rest) seemed spot on to me. I'll quote it if I can find the book. Gimme a minute...

anyway, they had their moments, sure. "Frankenstein" kicks ass. But I absolutely can't stand Johnny Thunders (even though So Alone was one of my desert island discs in college - I've done a complete 180 on that fucker for some reason)

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 19 April 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 269 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Also just found a video for “Looking for a Kiss.”

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:31 (one year ago)

A band from San Antonio called Sons of Hercules used to do an awesome version of “Who Are the Mystery Girls?”

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:33 (one year ago)

They still exist! Maybe they are still doing it

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:34 (one year ago)

He just said “Right here! In the Manse. With Johanse.”

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 06:47 (one year ago)

Sounds like Amalia Rodrigues right now

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 07:10 (one year ago)

Laura Nyro now

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 07:17 (one year ago)

Really enjoying listening to this but need to sleep. Maybe I will put that gigantic playlist on shuffle mode tomorrow

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 07:18 (one year ago)

We picked the kid up Sunday morning after a sleepover and were running errands, listening to the Dolls & my wife, who went through a deep Buster Poindexter phase in 80s asked to hear "Hot Hot Hot" and the moment it came on the ten y.o. was all "what is this? what is this?" and barely a minute later she was singing "hot!hot!hot!" and laughing which seems like as fitting a tribute as anything, RIP David

― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 3 March 2025 14:21 (one year ago)

It's funny, because in the UK, "Hot Hot Hot" is Arrow, and nobody else.

― Mark G, Monday, 3 March 2025 14:27 (one year ago)

Listing to the big Mansion of Fun playlist now.

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 15:23 (one year ago)

What with all the jump blues in there it’s making me think of Charlie Gillet’s Sound of the City

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 15:24 (one year ago)

Gillett

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 3 March 2025 15:25 (one year ago)

Xgau Remembers

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/david-johansen-new-york-dolls-robert-christgau-1235286728/

Neither the 1973 debut New York Dolls nor its 1974 follow-up Too Much Too Soon — produced by Shadow Morton, whose sole major credit was the legendary girl group the Shangri-Las — cracked the Top 100, great albums though both are now thought to be. The finale of the follow-up summed up what Johansen would be about till the day he died — titled simply “Human Being,” its tireless refrain went simply: “Well if I’m acting like a king, that’s because/I’m a human being.” And on a personal note, I’ll add that those two lines were the title I proposed for a criticism collection that in the end was called Grown Up All Wrong. A little long, Harvard thought, and that wasn’t all.

― Okay, heteros are cutting edge this year, too. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 17:47 (one year ago)

Saw that.

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 18:19 (one year ago)

that was great. I have always enjoyed xgau the most when he writes about the Dolls. I like him in fan-boy mode <3

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 19:07 (one year ago)

cant even imagine how thrilling it must have been seeing the 72 shows at the Mercer

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 19:12 (one year ago)

i love this video of Mystery Girls from Maxs Kansas City ‘73 - they’re so on it! makes me want to timetravel to see this gig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chd_JUkec8M

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 19:39 (one year ago)

man yeah. just squarely ON it

― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 4 March 2025 20:32 (one year ago)

I like him in fan-boy mode <3

There's a documentary about NYC (pre-)punk where Christgau's one of the interviewees, and the level of involvement increases palpably once he gets to talk about the Dolls instead of the Velvet Underground.

― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 4 March 2025 20:47 (one year ago)

I was wondering what happened to that video, it went missing the last time I posted it myself, thanks.

― Blind Willie Minitel (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 5 March 2025 01:26 (one year ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08MuQAC5zpw

― Who Are the Mystery URLs? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 6 March 2025 19:35 (one year ago)

Not that I needed assurance, but my listening to the Dolls and DJ again in the last few days helped me realize anew what a first-rate lyricist he was.

― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 6 March 2025 19:36 (one year ago)

I was wondering what ever happened to the New York Doll Hospital on Lexington Ave between 61st/62nd Sts which inspired the band’s name… bc I remember spying the old NY Doll Hospital sign when it was still in business and suddenly realizing that’s where the name came from, and feeling the thrill of historical connection.

It’s now an establishment called 787 Unique Head Spa. And not for nothing, Unique Head strikes me as a good band name as well.

― Josefa, Friday, 7 March 2025 01:25 (one year ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH8TuI2uzvo

― Who Are the Mystery URLs? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 7 March 2025 01:26 (one year ago)

I was wondering what ever happened to the New York Doll Hospital on Lexington Ave between 61st/62nd Sts which inspired the band’s name… bc I remember spying the old NY Doll Hospital sign when it was still in business and suddenly realizing that’s where the name came from, and feeling the thrill of historical connection.

It’s now an establishment called 787 Unique Head Spa. And not for nothing, Unique Head strikes me as a good band name as well.

Oh yeah. Saw both of those, hadn’t realized it was the same location.

― Who Are the Mystery URLs? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 7 March 2025 01:28 (one year ago)

It’s now an establishment called 787 Unique Head Spa. And not for nothing, Unique Head strikes me as a good band name as well.

I was in the laundromat one day when it occurred to me that 80 Lb. Speed Queen would be a great band name. (Speed Queen is a brand of industrial clothes dryer.)

― Instead of create and send out, it pull back and consume (unperson), Friday, 7 March 2025 01:38 (one year ago)

80 lb Speed Queen = Taylor Mead?

Sorry, I’ll see myself out

― Josefa, Friday, 7 March 2025 02:34 (one year ago)

one year passes...

Spin Article about Quintano's School for Young Professionals, where Johnny, Syl and Billy apparently went:
https://books.google.com/books/about/SPIN.html?id=-6u53go_Q1oC

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 15:21 (three weeks ago)

Page 92.

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 15:22 (three weeks ago)

91 really.

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 15:22 (three weeks ago)

90 to see the photos

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 15:23 (three weeks ago)

just posted this previously uncirculated (and great) tape of the Dolls in late 72:
https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/816597663926697984/ny-dolls-mercer
There's also a nice vinyl edition making the rounds.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/m4QAAeSwCbZp92Ft/s-l1600.webp

― tylerw, Friday, 15 May 2026 16:02 (three weeks ago)

Nice, thanks!

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 16:56 (three weeks ago)

I always love the weird high backing vocals on things like "Pills" and "Trash," both of which I assume are Johnny.

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 17:03 (three weeks ago)

Heh, like how a bunch of tracks are just Tuning, so you can edit out if you want, although I don't want.

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 May 2026 19:32 (three weeks ago)

hey thanks for the heads up on that dolls boot. there's also this late-inning johansen single:

https://schnitzel.co.uk/2026/david-johansen/

― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 16 May 2026 22:26 (three weeks ago)

Can we be shown weirdos + L-U-V?

― The Man Who Sold the Unisphere (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 17 May 2026 02:03 (three weeks ago)

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