imagine Joanna Newsom singing Beth by Kiss
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean so far this shit ain't that different from say this kate song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xakoLYwokBo
^btw this clip is awesome <3
but actually now i'm listening and there's no comparing them as vocalists...kate is so fucking street real with her vocal talent, top 5 dead or alive...
but still i dunno it's not THAT far off in the continuum of music from like Candlemass to C&C Music Factory
― for HOOM the bell tolls (M@tt He1ges0n), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:41 (fourteen years ago) link
yr setting her up for failure when you compare her to KB! but remember that shes only 3 albums into her career & still figuring out what she does
― max, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:43 (fourteen years ago) link
i heard she "does" unicorns
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:43 (fourteen years ago) link
http://cdn3.libsyn.com/dsco/Have_One_on_Them.jpg?nvb=20100224173356&nva=20100225174356&t=0f142bc00ee9d126ea576
― mottdeterre, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:44 (fourteen years ago) link
a bit of a hasty conclusion, but from what i've heard, her voice is much better on this disc.
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link
(i've heard some of the NPR stream and the video embeds on this thread)
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:46 (fourteen years ago) link
i hesitate to call it 'better' since i never had a problem with her voice on the other two albums. but yeah--its less... affected but no less unique. imo.
― max, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:47 (fourteen years ago) link
is this album any good
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:48 (fourteen years ago) link
"less affected" is good enough for me as a description
― Daniel, Esq., Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:48 (fourteen years ago) link
kate is so fucking street real
oh word
― epic board man (history mayne), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:48 (fourteen years ago) link
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:48 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
ya it is
― max, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:49 (fourteen years ago) link
the only vocal stylings I have a problem with are the laddish affectations of British indie frontmen who throw in 'oh-oh-oh-ohhh' or 'yeeeeah' every other breath, in order to fill the space where a cutting lyrical sentiment could be, and doubtless to bolster the most thinly-veiled empty-head-onism youth, minor fame and a recording contract can buy. it is akin to watching a rapist pluck a dandelion for his next victim
― joagga lousome (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:55 (fourteen years ago) link
i wonder what kind of monster you will be at 40
― thomp, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:55 (fourteen years ago) link
pluckage
― velko, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:56 (fourteen years ago) link
wtf are you even talking about, lj
― Jack the Dude-Kicker (HI DERE), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 17:58 (fourteen years ago) link
got y'all a dandelion
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:01 (fourteen years ago) link
lj u are my boo
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:01 (fourteen years ago) link
This kind of shit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlMfV7A3V00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVLqo7C-WwA
All of the above are sex-offending morons.
― joagga lousome (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:05 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh Christ.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:06 (fourteen years ago) link
If Joanna looked like Beth Ditto this thread would only have five messages posted to it.
― mottdeterre, Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:44 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark
ridiculous double reverse sexist garbage imo btw
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:06 (fourteen years ago) link
CAD is OTM btw - that statement didn't get lampooned quite enough
― joagga lousome (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:07 (fourteen years ago) link
What the album does contain is more than two hours of exquisitely beautiful songs over three discs, performed with a new singing voice after the old one quite literally disappeared.
Newsom developed vocal cord nodes in spring 2009, and all that came out when she opened her mouth “was like the hiss on opening a Coke can”. For two months she went around with a notebook, forbidden from singing, speaking or even crying. “In fact crying was the absolutely worst thing I could do to my voice. So I was constantly telling myself, don’t feel, don’t feel, don’t feel.” On recovering, she mourned when she realised that her old voice was never coming back, though she says she must give “full disclosure” and admit that further vocal modifications have been deliberate.
so yes this is going to convert a lot of h8rs--her voice is like totally different
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link
Okay, no, sorry. You don't to call anyone "sexist" two posts after calling musicians you don't like sex offenders. Fuck off with that.
(xpost)
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link
bless those nodes
― velko, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:10 (fourteen years ago) link
anyway what I am saying is let JN sing how she goddamn pleases and try to keep your visceral reactions as a matter of personal taste and not an assault upon her character. the only genuinely offensive voices are those modulated to convey empty feeling, hence my post upthread
lol jon you do not understand - I get to do what I like, especially if on both occasions it's 'holding to account the objectification of women' - that issue doesn't have a subjective position IMO
― joagga lousome (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:12 (fourteen years ago) link
Unless you have actual proof that those guys are sex offenders (and maybe they are, couldn't give a fuck about either of them enough to know) then, no, you don't get to toss that accusation out there for "holding to account the objectification of women".
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:15 (fourteen years ago) link
anyway what I am saying is let JN sing how she goddamn pleases and try to keep your visceral reactions as a matter of personal taste and not an assault upon her character
I'm kind of curious about this, actually: when the objection to her voice is equiv. to 'the guitar on this record is never tuned' (which "she has really annoying tone colour, is nasal, is often flagrantly out of tune*" kind of is) is it really a personal reaction? aren't there kinds of immediate aesthetic judgement which aren't?
*cf. 'sadie', 'three little babes', 'inflammatory writ', 'yarn and glue'
― thomp, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:19 (fourteen years ago) link
But yes, her voice is miles better on this album, if you ask me. Love it.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:20 (fourteen years ago) link
it took me soooo long to adjust to ys because (among other things) i thought she'd started singing too 'well'
― thomp, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:21 (fourteen years ago) link
i dont know about the flagrantly out of tune bit, but "annoying" is definitely a "personal reaction"
― max, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:21 (fourteen years ago) link
I return to ILX to find that mildly caustic turns of phrase have been outlawed? Who's running this show? They're probably not *actual* sex offenders, certainly not convicted, but their music incites sexism. I'll forgive you for not giving a fuck because those songs weren't huge in the States, but they certainly were here, and from a feminist (read: sensible) perspective, that's worrying/problematic. The singers' mannerisms go a long way towards creating an atmosphere of sexual predation. Maybe you hear it completely differently.
Mr. West, whose name I am calling out because shit got heated enough, it is interesting, as long as you can provide an explanation as to why she is singing *WRONGLY*, as opposed to 'differently/uniquely/annoyingly'. What is she doing, that is 'wrong' and improvable? On a purely objective level? Bear in mind that 'often flagrantly out of tune' could well be an aesthetic choice, hence subjective, ditto 'nasal'.
― joagga lousome (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:22 (fourteen years ago) link
The singers' mannerisms go a long way towards creating an atmosphere of sexual predation.
Quoted for absolute fucking ignorance. I mean, really, you honestly believe this shit? You aren't even worth debating with.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:23 (fourteen years ago) link
go pluck yourself
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:25 (fourteen years ago) link
It's threatening laddish assertion (forced swagger) in songs about desirable females - I can't read it in any other way. Take a chill pill, dude! Everything will be happier in ten minutes.
― joagga lousome (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:26 (fourteen years ago) link
>>ridiculous double reverse sexist garbage imo btw
I meant it as lookist garbage.
― mottdeterre, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:27 (fourteen years ago) link
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hZPrHSWoKvY/Sro63Ss2p6I/AAAAAAAABTk/Ppv2HQlao4g/s400/SG.Pluckers+Wings.dracoLLL.jpg
xxpost
― I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:27 (fourteen years ago) link
whose name I am calling out because shit got heated enough
i'm pretty sure this is the first time this has happened to me on ilx, awesome
ok right:
i. 'annoying' was the wrong choice of word; pretend i said 'really sharp tone colour' though 'sharp' isn't really the right word
ii. i sort of distrust the logic of "it's okay to be singing out of tune as long as it is deliberate and you could do better if you wanted to"
iii. my claim is that if yr aesthetic choices involve a lot of deliberate error, people are perfectly justified to say "well, i don't like error, and i don't care if it is deliberate" - cf. bad free verse, novels written in one paragraph, out of focus photos - & i think this is a category of objection which on some level goes beyond mere personal taste
― thomp, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:28 (fourteen years ago) link
who gave marc loi the jagg's login?
― epic board man (history mayne), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:29 (fourteen years ago) link
This is JN's best-sung album in the same sense that Nashville Skyline is Dylan's best-sung album.
― that guy who doesn't get it but doesn't know he doesn't get it (M.V.), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:30 (fourteen years ago) link
i really didn't like her voice until this record, but i don't think it was out of tune, just extreme, but then again i didn't listen to it enough to know for sure
― velko, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:30 (fourteen years ago) link
I'd hate to hear what lj thinks of Mick Jagger and any other sixties rock singer ever that had "swagger" when singing about a desirable female.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:32 (fourteen years ago) link
there's the odd belter or bellowed moment where it's very obvious/deliberate (listed these earlier) ; also moments where she goes squeaky and misses the note
xpost i'd hate it if maybe LJ thinking modern brit indie was a bit rapey maybe had to become its own thread and not bother us here: that would be terrible
― thomp, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:33 (fourteen years ago) link
"You call that singing?"
― that guy who doesn't get it but doesn't know he doesn't get it (M.V.), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:35 (fourteen years ago) link
I'll deal with iii because that's where the meat of the argument is (although 'tone colour' is something I think varies naturally rather than intentionally - prove me wrong)...
my claim is that if yr aesthetic choices involve a lot of deliberate error, people are perfectly justified to say "well, i don't like error, and i don't care if it is deliberate" - cf. bad free verse, novels written in one paragraph, out of focus photos - & i think this is a category of objection which on some level goes beyond mere personal taste
The issue here is whether Newsom is making errors, or valid musical choices. Unless she's failing to do something she's trying to do, I'd never accuse her of error. Is she failing to do something she's trying to do? I know some artistic choices can sabotage others, and thus the failure is that of creating a cogent artistic statement - I'd venture to say that if she does make an error, this might be it. But how? I think her voice works well enough with her instrument.
generally dislike the Stones fwiw - and yeah, they're pretty monstrous when it comes to women, although this doesn't have much to do with my opinion of them. at least they were a little more straightforward about their sexual wants. didn't sugar-coat it in false sensitivity.
― joagga lousome (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:36 (fourteen years ago) link
Nah, pretty much not even worth the discourse at this point. Back to Newsom talk please.
― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:37 (fourteen years ago) link
what are you guys doing to the great thread of love
can't we get back to the edenic time on this thread when we were all united in lols @ unicorns
gotta get back to the garden guys
― Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:41 (fourteen years ago) link
― joagga lousome (acoleuthic), Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:36 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark
Moral: you have to be creepy. You have to make your fuck-want clear from the beginning, even if you choose to go smooth and disguise it as "romantic interest". I understand that the romantic interest route is very popular.
― epic board man (history mayne), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:42 (fourteen years ago) link
here I'll start:
http://unicorns.wizardio.com/images/unicorn.jpg
A THIMBLE'S WORTH OF MILKY LOLS
― Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:43 (fourteen years ago) link
http://i.friendfeed.com/d089b9a8bdd910dbdf258265e09014ac822484fe
i kind of think of this every time someone complains about her mentioning sex
― thomp, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 18:45 (fourteen years ago) link