Oum Kalthoum, Om Kolthom, Om Kalsoum, Omm Kalsoum, Omme Kolsoum, Oom Koolsum, Oum Kalthoum, Oum Kalthum, Oum Kalsoum, Oum Kaltsoum, Oum Kolthoum, Oum Koulsoum, Oum Kulthum, Oum Kulthume, Um Kalthoum,

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It's a really good book, but it helps to already be very very interested in Umm Kulthum (although it certainly relates to some broader cultural issues). The introductory material is dryer than the rest of the book, from what I remember.

I wasn't aware of all the Oum Kalthoum guilt. Now I feel bad, like I'm responsible for everyone's guilt.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I have three CDs, and I really enjoy them - but I bought it more as a guy with an interest in cultural anthropology, as much as a music fan.

Which actually reminds me, Rockist - I first heard of Kalthoum a number of years ago through an old anthropology prof who had asked me to digitize some of his old reel-to-reel tapes (!) of middle eastern music. THe thing was, he didn't remember / hadn't labeled all the tapes, so some of the artists are unidentified. I love this collection (burned myself a copy), and I'd love to find out who some of these people are, but my knowledge is very limited. Could I send you a copy of this thing? Perhaps you might recognize some of the artists. Let me know...

― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

(bought the book for the anthro, not the cds, that is)

― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh definitely, I would be willing to try to indentify some of it. I will send you my address. (I will probably do this tomorrow, since I'm ready to log off.)

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Sound good! And no trade or anything involved - I'm just really really curious to find out what this stuff is so I'd be more than happy to send it your way. hit me up at this email address.

― Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Friday, 13 August 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

R.S.: Do you think you could make me a few CDRs of the best O.K. music you know? I am penniless at the moment so I can't explore this on my own. I could make you some CDRs of...well whatever you might like to hear that is in my collection (lots of pre-WWII stuff for example). If this interests you at email, please email me.

Did you ever have any luck finding anything else by Laure Daccache? I looked everywhere in Paris for the one CD that had been released (on some tiny French label), but turned up empty-handed.

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Friday, 13 August 2004 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Stupidest name of the 20th century, maybe.

― Sasha (sgh), Friday, 13 August 2004 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)

fuck off sasha

― |a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Friday, 13 August 2004 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

amateurist, when did you get a burner? I still am burner-less. (No one seems to believe me when I say I can't make copies of stuff for people and when I am able to I will start contacting people.)

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 10:24 (twenty-one years ago)

according to my dad, whos knowledge of arabic is slim, but still much greater than mine, Kolthoum means "pure voice." which makes he the mother of pure voice.

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I bought a cheap comp.(?) called Mother Of The Arabs a little while ago, to rry and find out what all the fuss (here, mainly!) was about.

I've only listened to it once and I know I really ought to give it another try but I'm afraid I'm not over inclined to 'cos it really didn't anything for me at all the first time.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't that the one I told you would be hard to get into? The big hint is: any CD with more than three of her songs on it is probably going to contain songs from her earliest phase, which is, in my opinion, her least approachable material, and certainly quite a bit different than what came later.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 13 August 2004 11:31 (twenty-one years ago)

"Isn't that the one I told you would be hard to get into?"

It is and you did; but alas it was too late!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, I want to reiterate that for me (though not necessarily for everyone), it's less to do with her voice per se, as an instrument, than with her singing. (Not that I don't enjoy her voice itself in certain songs, but I've found it harder to acquire a taste for her voice than an appreciation of how she sings.)

x-post: Oh well. I don't even like her songs from before the late 30's, except for one or two. (I think that might be due to a heavy Turkish influence on the compositions she sang in her early years.)

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I just happened to hear Oum Kalthoum unexpectedly on the radio two weeks ago - well, on this international/world music show on 90.7 KPFK. The entire show was dedicated to her, with this one modern Egyptian singer, I forget the name, covering a standard of Oum's towards the beginning, in order to promote a show she was doing locally to celebrate Oum's recording centennial or something. Isn't Los Angeles wunderful ?

The sounds were very easy for me to immediatey warm to, as it sounded like a variation on hindustani music, yet I must admit that the modern singer was more accessible, voice-wise, than Oum. But she wuz still c00l.

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The initial impression I came away with (warning: I am about to start talking about areas of music that even I am prepared to admit I know absolutely fuck all about!) like a cross between an Arabic call to prayer and something out of a very old Bollywood movie or that I might expect to hear playing in the background in an Indian restaurant.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:45 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what I meant when i said hindustani - "classical" north indian, even though that in itself is the name of the style that's heavily been influenced by islamic culture. From even before the Mughal period onwards, persian/turkish/arabic and indian styles mixed to shape hindustani which developed in the north, as opposed to carnatic which remained largely untouched in the south. Both can be heard in indian cinema.

― Vic (Vic), Friday, 13 August 2004 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks Vic, you've almost made me feel as if I was really making some genuine, valid, meaningful, informed observation as opposed to talking completely out of my arse (which sadly, of course, I was)!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all interconnected, man.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

RS: actually i don't have a burner, but i have friends whose burners i could use. i'm actually really happy, in a strange way, that you don't have a burner. i often feel a little left out for not having a burner, soulseek, or whatever program people are using now to get free music. (i don't have enough money to buy new music, either, at the moment.)

― amateur!!!st, Friday, 13 August 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Stewart, the compilation you got might be movie songs too, which would be a little different the material I was thinking of, but still not my favorite stuff, generally. I guess it doesn't matter really.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 13 August 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

it's less to do with her voice per se, as an instrument, than with her singing.

I see what you're saying. I just bought the Buda Musique El Sett CD (due largely to this thread) and, yeah, her voice doesn't seem "beautiful" in a conventionally western sense (unlike, say, Amalia Rodriguez, who when I first heard her, I said OMFG) but even on first listen I'm intrigued by her vocalization. There's something there that fascinates. And this, of course, is all 30's material--the only thing immediately available to me. Thanks for the tips!

― Paul Ess (Paul Ess), Saturday, 14 August 2004 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I just listened to some samples from El Sett/the Lady, and some of that stuff sounds pretty good to me. "Tab en-nasim Al Alil" is in a style that I like (judging from a brief sound-bite). Also, I see that the collection gathers work from later than what I was assuming. So I don't know what to say, though I would still recommend that people start with something like Roubaiyat el Khayam from 1949/50. I think it's actually harder to appreciate the straight studio recordings than the live recordings, because in the live recordings you get to hear her improvising on the songs she is singing, which is where much of her greatness lies, in my opinion.

Also, it really helps if you can see some live footage of her performances.

(I was disappointed when I finally heard some Amalia Rodriguez, incidentally. "World music diva" fite!)

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 14 August 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I think her singing is paradoxically phallic, penetrant. Warning: I may be saying that partly to play to gay &/or post-structuralist readers of this thread.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 14 August 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Gender and half-assed nods to queer theory, etc. aside, I do experience much of this singing as penetrating, and in a pleasant way, so I think the metaphor of forceful and filling, but welcome, sexual penetration might actually be pretty good, even if sexual metaphors are overused in musical discussions (and even if I don't speak from experience). Her voice is thick and even drill-like at times, but again, in a pleasurable way.

(The complexities of what she does with her voice can't adequately be modeled by pelvic thrusting though.)

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 14 August 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

I ordered a copy of Robaiayt el Khayam (among other things) to donate it to the library where I work. After checking on how the cataloging of the CD is progressing, I now discover that the CD inside was actually Sahran Lewahdi. That is also a great recording, however, a less ideal starting point, I think. (Also, something I can't listen to in just about any mood, the way I can listen to Robaiyat el Khayam.) I guess I will see if a distributor can send me a copy of Robaiyat, checking to see what disc is inside, before sending it. The Saudi recording industry needs to get its act together! While I am at it, I might as well donate Ana fe Entazark as well.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I really like "Oum Transmissions." I wish I'd thought of that before. Maybe I should start a new thread under that title.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I would like to listen to more Oum Kalthoum.

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

The Saudi recording industry needs to get its act together!

this is a very politically sensitive issue, R.S. america's dependency on saudi arabian music is something that out government needs to reevaluate. perhaps they can look into alernative sourcse of arabian music, or more efficiently utilize relatively untapped resources of arabian music in alaska or the texas panhandle.

― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I would like to listen to more Oum Kalthoum.

That's the spirit.

amateurist, the whole idea of buying CDs made in a country whose official theology is anti-music (or something close to that) is baffling.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i was just making a funny.

― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

(funniness of funny not guaranteed)

― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Mr. Monetizing Eyeballs, did you ever get my address in your e-mail?

(I don't mean to bug you, but my e-mail account is kind of unreliable, so there's a real chance you didn't.)

(Unfortunately, the post office has also been unreliable lately.)

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Rockist...can you send me you e-address too? i have something to ask you re Oum K that is not for here.

― gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay. This address should work, except I forgot the password. :( I am going to have to write them down.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

so its fine to email you but you won't be able to read it???

― gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

If I can't recover the password, I will e-mail you.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

RS, yes, I did get your address. It came through loud and clear. Unfortunately, the only thing possibly less reliable than your email account is my timeliness when it comes to burning CDs (just ask Julio...) But rest assured, I will get it out to you!

― Reed Moore (diamond), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't get my September Harper's either.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

― Reed Moore (diamond), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...

http://www.strangechord.com/potd/umm.jpg

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm listening again to Riad el-Sounbatti's own recording of his composition Roubaiyat el Khayam, which throws Oum Kalthoum's performance (which is hard for me to forget while listening to this song) into sharp contrast. Riad el-Sounbatti is a pleasant enough singer, but remembering what Oum Kalthoum does with certain lines he is singing practically makes me giddy. (Of course, I also remembmer some of the orchestra parts (notably the kanun at the very beginning) in this performance limited to oud and vocals.) But because el-Sounbatti's performance fails to compare to Oum Kalthoum's, it makes me appreciate him more as a composer for Oum Kalthoum.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

And Songlines is going to have a beginner's guide in their next issue. It better be good. It better be someone who knows at least as much as I do (not that I'm making myself available for hire).

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

The live recording of "Hazihi Leylati" appears to be available on CD again! Awwww yeaaaaaah! I'll say more once I actually get it, but I've just ordered it. As I've mentioned above, this is my favorite among the Abdel Wahab songs she sang, and one of a handful of favorites in her late career output.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

If you can call that great sprawling Egyptian prog. opera of a song a "song."

(And I just got the contract ratification bonus check today. Wheeee! And I took some decongestant because I'm getting a sinus infection! Wheeeee!)

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

(You know they kind of bribe you with bonus checks. "Well, we're taking this and this away from you, so you'll have less long term, but here's a few hundred bucks.")

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

decongestant usually puts me to sleep!

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Sunday, 24 October 2004 03:21 (twenty-one years ago)

It's still just the studio version of Hazihi Leylati, so back it goes.

gaz, you can e-mail me at my new normal ILX e-mail address: [email protected]. I have even written down my password.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

It's very disappointing that the two best Oum Kalthoum recordings of Abdel Wahab songs do not appear to be available on CD.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

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