Why don't I like Bob Dylan?

He appeared to be playing piano; stood behind it for most of the show. He played guitar for the first two songs.

i've read some years ago that he owned shares of diamond mines in south-africa
(which is the reason my interest in discovering him vanished. yes it makes me musical illiterate)

Why would knowing that about an artist stop you from liking them? (even if it's true, which I doubt)

Because sometimes people can't get past moral objections to artists as individuals, or don't want to get past them. (If you are missing the objection might even be: I am assuming this went back to the Apartheid era of South Africa. Also, the diamond trade throughout Africa is just incredibly destructive and is closely related to various ruthless military factions there, along with the usual story of benefiting outsiders and a small local elite, while in now way benefiting the local population in general. I'm not saying that's how it works in every country, but that's how it works in a lot of places there.) And it seems quite plausible that he would have had such investments. Maybe he had some Israeli chums get him set up during his period of celebrating Israel as neighborhood bully (not sure he's ever backed away from that), given that Israelis are among the biggest investors in Africa's diamond trade, and given it was one of the countries with the closest relationship to Apartheid South Africa.

(But Angel Canales is or was a diamond dealer and I haven't stopped listening to him.)

I can't over my moral objection to Rudipherous.

get over*

great artists/musicians/playwrights who have done portraits of/been court musicians for/written plays for terrible tyrants: a list thread.

I'm more concerned about the fact that because Dylan wrote Neighborhood Bully that must mean he's in cahoots with the evil Zionist empire who likely rewarded him with his own personal African diamond mine. Wtf kinda third-rate Stormfront bullshit is that?

thought u were cool w/ anti-semites tbh mords -- slovenian ones ne way.

nah, that dude isn't an anti-Semite. We chatted about Jews awhile. He has much love for the tribe.

one of his paradoxes?

i found this pretty convincing:

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/disputations-still-the-most-dangerous-philosopher-the-west

i mean he's not really likely to say "i am anti-semitic", but will go right up to the line, describing israel as being like nazi germany, etc.

I've read the article. Look, I'm not saying the dude is perfect (tho a lot of the stuff in the article in out-of-context) and I certainly don't want to apologize for him. But he didn't stand in class and say anything offensive. AND: If he came onto the Bob Dylan thread and said that, I'd tell him to stfu too.

(You know, I hadn't read this one. I had read the original that I guess this is a follow-up too. Yeah. It's disturbing.)

(It's maybe a conversation to have over on the Zizek thread.)

Some of my favorite songs of his are too damned long:

Desolation Row
Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again
Visions of Johanna
Idiot Wind

I don't really care beyond verse three or four. It's not that I don't like interminable folky ballads - shit "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" is one of my all-time favorite songs. I just don't find Dylan's lyrics to be interesting enough to listen to.

I would dig 7" edits of all these. I dunno, maybe they exist. I should try to find them.

Because sometimes people can't get past moral objections to artists as individuals

Fair enough, although personally I find it quite easy.

his period of celebrating Israel as neighborhood bully (not sure he's ever backed away from that)

Why should he back away from it? He's only voicing his opinion.

i've read some years ago that he owned shares of diamond mines in south-africa

Do you have a source for this?

I would dig 7" edits of all these. I dunno, maybe they exist. I should try to find them.

SUGGEST BAN

DNFT

describing israel as being like nazi germany

this is not anti-semitic btw

i think you forgot a T

That TNR article is the worst kind of tendentious selective quotation.

THE FIRST RULE TO NOTE AT BOB DYLAN'S BOXING club is "Don't talk about it." Membership is invitation only. There's no sign to announce the place, which sits in the basement of the 18th Street Coffee House in Santa Monica.

The business permits for both establishments, as well as one for an adjacent synagogue, are in the name of his manager, Jeff Rosen, who doesn't want to talk about it. ("I know nothing about that.... Can't you find something more interesting to write about?") The wild-haired baristas at the coffeehouse don't want to either. "It's a secret," an ex-waitress says of Dylan's ties to the block.

Of course, half the Westside will tell you Dylan owns the boxing club. The performer's even been spotted here a few times recently. The gym exists as his secret garden of sorts, a shrine to the sport in which Dylan has had a long-abiding interest.

He recorded "Who Killed Davey Moore?" in 1963, after the featherweight champion died from injuries sustained in the ring. In 1964's "I Shall Be Free No. 10," Dylan sings, "I was shadowboxin' early in the day / I figured I was ready for Cassius Clay." Then came "Hurricane," which helped overturn pugilist Rubin Carter's murder conviction; Denzel Washington starred in the Hollywood account of his life.

Inside the fluorescent-washed gym, there's nary a whiff of the shabby, smoky grandeur of typical urban boxing dungeons. But Dylan's presence is all around. As the resident trainer, David Paul, gives a tour of the space, ignoring all the Dylan artifacts--beginning with the photos of Larry Bird and Michael Jordan signed "To Bob" in the reception area--can have the effect of pretending to ignore a fuchsia elephant sitting on your lap.

re: something like "Neighborhood Bully," you'd be in big trouble if you looked to Dylan's songs/career for ANY sort of consistent political world-view. Dude has gone through a lot of different stages iirc.

I would dig 7" edits of all these. I dunno, maybe they exist. I should try to find them.

SUGGEST BAN

― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 2:21 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

DNFT

― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 2:22 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's trolling to admit being bored as hell by some long-assed tunes on a thread about not liking the artist in question?

but the last verse of desolation row is the best part!

Which may explain why I've never heard it!

(okay, that's a lie)

describing israel as being like nazi germany

this is not anti-semitic btw

― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 7:22 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark

perhaps not in itself, but as part of a bigger line of insinuation... it's an INTERESTING choice of comparison, isn't it, when zizek says israel describes gaza as a concentration camp and says it wants the land 'palestinian-frei'. one could choose other analogies than this.

It's trolling to admit being bored as hell by some long-assed tunes on a thread about not liking the artist in question?

haha sorry man shoulda put x-posts, was referring to the reviver of this thread

still, it does rankle me to suggest an edited "Visions of Johanna"! I mean, the power of that song is the way it builds, you know?

one could choose other analogies than this.

that's true, but the Nazi analogy packs the most rhetorical punch, combining the bitterest of ironies with the most strident of moral condemnations. but what do I know, I haven't even read the piece in question.

I'm just tired of criticism of Israel being treated as de facto anti-semitism, its just a dishonest tactic.

x-post

still, it does rankle me to suggest an edited "Visions of Johanna"! I mean, the power of that song is the way it builds, you know?

x10

i mean, someone who says that Visions should be edited down has gotta be a nazi, am i right?

you are correct

(then again, the Byrds' editing of "Chimes of Freedom" is pretty dead-on, I think I prefer their version. But that's not a fraction the song "Visions" is, of course).

i totally don't understand what's going on here.

Bob Dylan owns diamond mines in Israel and is a nazi.

also his songs are too long

Visions of Johanna is about Nazis

diamond studded nazis

I don't think there's been any mention of this on ILM, so ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCnHcqQFxPY
Bob playing with Van Dyke Parks and Ry Cooder! Would pay at least $15 for an album with these guys.

Jews and binoculars hang from the head of the mule

heres my story about Bob... My first encounter with the guy was with a track in the Natural Born Killers Soundtrack, as a typical teenager I was typically into most of the track on the compilation, but I thought at that time that bob dylan song ("you belong to me") was atrocious, that voice man, was like nails in a fucking chalkboard. he represented everything i hated about music and instantly got shelved in my head as what not to listen to.

Fast Forward 16 years later ... breaking up with my fiancee, up to my eyeballs in a shitty job, a layoff eventually. A friend of mine left Essential Bob Dylan in my stereo. "Jokerman", "Everything is Broken", "Not dark yet" and "Things Have Changed" and ("Im not There (1964)" not on that compilation though) just hitted the spot very nicely, its a great soundtrack when your seeing everything turn inside out, and you just crawl into a bottle of whisky.

Not everything the man has done is sold gold, but just give him a chance you might just eat your words like I did.

Hello from Mexicali Mexico

hello! i think you make a good point. i don't even try to convince people that Bob Dylan is worth listening to anymore. sooner or later, it'll probably hit you.

or maybe it won't! who knows. but if/when it does, you're in for some great music.

T|S it's unfair that you legitimately complain about Israel without being called antisemitic V. You can't legitimately complain about Obama without being called racist -- which is the bigger ignorant challops GO!

thread is mainly valuable in confirming n1ck s0uth4ll as valuable ilx contributor since 2002 imo