show etiquette

http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/son.gif

i don't think you were being a dick, but people shouting into each other's ears like that during songs at a regular club show is as common as people lifting up their cell phones to take pictures. It can be annoying, but it's something that so many people do, it might come across to the people you called out, if they go to shows more often, that you're being oversensitive and/or don't get out much.

Moving is generally the best course of action, though it sucks if you have a good spot and the place is packed enough so that it's hard to find another good spot.

j0rdan i don't want to live in a world where it is okay with talking loudly through a show: its so crazy rude, and shows such selfish disregard for anyone in the room who might want to hear the music, that it bums me out big time when it happens.

i also almost got in a fight, at a magnetic fields show, in such circumstances about a decade ago. this guy and two girls were singing through all the 69 Love Songs material, which was kind of annoying but i felt like a grouch for getting vexed, because hey they're just having a good time. but then they started talking loudly during the songs they didn't know, and my then-gf was getting visibly enraged, so i stood up (we were seated, they were stood behind us) and said, hey, do you mind not talking during the songs? i was real polite abt it, btw.

anyways, the guy, who seemed kind of an upper class ponce if his diction and accent were any clue, got all pouty and said, "why don't you fuck off home and listen to the record there?" which upped my vexation levels a thousandfold, and i said that since i'd bought tickets to see the show, why didn't he fuck off home and have his conversation there?

i sat down at this point, and they pretty much shut up, but between songs i could hear him lisping about how he was going to smack me at the end of the show. i don't think i've been in a real fight since i hit double figures, and thought i could probably 'take him' if it came down to it, but still didn't fancy a scrap. the show ended and i stood up, and the guy and his friends abruptly left w/out saying anything, and an old lady came up and thanked me for shutting them up, but it was a lame scene mostly.

i know, wite guy almost sonned at a mag fields show over a loud-talking beef...

^had a similar experience at one of the 69 love songs shows. seemed like a bunch of people were only there to hear the one about bunny rabbits (which they loudly sang along to) and talked incessantly through the rest

Talking during songs is inexcusable, as is bellowing tunelessly along (unless it's that kind of gig, y'know Pogues or suchlike). I don't know if this has got any better or worse in my many years of going to see live bands, but it certainly happens more if an artist is on an upward career curve, or is in some flavour-of-the-month phase just because the shows are full of people who aren't fans as such, or who've been dragged along etc. Bottom line though is that it's incredibly rude both to the performer(s) and other people who have paid to be there.

As noted, yr never going to meet with anything approaching a polite response if any attempt is made to shut them up. Disgusting savages, all of them.

Something else that pisses me off is when people who have been blessed with the genetic gift of tallness choose to stand directly in front of me and/or Mrs A even though we've staked a claim in a good spot early on. I'm only 5'10" so when some fucker who is well over 6 foot barges in my view is ruined. As is my mood.

My enjoyment of a Tindersticks show a couple of years ago was pretty much ruined by one girl who talked loudly throughout the entire show, including the quiet songs. Stuart Staples doesn't normally say much to the audience but on this occasion he was moved at the end to say "it’s been great playing for you… except for that woman down there." But she didn't hear him. She just kept on talking.

genetic gift of tallness

I am five foot nothing and while I don't think this gives me an instant right to be at the front or anything (nor do I particularly want to any more, for most gigs I am at) I am amazed every gig at how people over a foot taller than me will arrive, note my presence, and then stand exactly in front of me. Happens even if the room is almost empty, though at least then they can be sidestepped (until the next lot). If they seem into the band that's one thing, but if they then get bored and chat and twitter all evening, fuck those guys

(sometimes I think indie women are shorter and less assertive than average and indie guys are taller and more oblivious than average, and curse the cruel fate that throws 10 of us and 200 of them into every gig together. this and other women-be-shopping observations are all I have to think about when I keenly arrive at a gig at the advertised door time to find that it doesn't start for 1.5 hours and it's too dark to reread the free month-old listings rag, etc)

Back to the thread topic, those guys were jerks, don't be intimidated by them maybe going to more shows than you, most regular gig-goers I've known wd agree. Though I've never seen anything good come of a confrontation at the time, but I'd like to think they go home and think "I guess we were a bit annoying" and don't do it again. Past experience suggests not though.

(Once the hippest local band included a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town. So glad that guy left town.)

you should never be made to feel like you're in the wrong by asking for a little courtesy and consideration.

xpost: I remember an old acquaintance telling us about the time that she and her friends were shushed at a Tindersticks gig.

"It was SO RUDE! How DARE they tell us what to do? We were at the back, so they could have just moved forwards!"

The worst ones are when the chatter reaches critical mass, and everyone gives up and starts doing it themselves. As someone said upthread, this happens most often when the act is at the "flavour of the month" stage. I've witnessed it at Goldfrapp (around the time of "Ooh La La"), at Rodrigo Y Gabriela, and - perhaps more deservedly, because it was a ditchwater-dull show anyway - at Seasick Steve.

a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town

"FREEBIRD!"?

Have confronted people about this more times than I care to remember. A bit of chat is fine - it's a night out, after all; and chatting at the bar is fine - it's the bar. But talking all the way through a show when you're standing mid-crowd is unacceptable. I rarely get threatened, though, by virtue of being very tall and not at all skinny. And because by the time I tip over into telling them to be quiet, my rage is beyond containment. As a tall person, agree with those shorter than me who complain about the behaviour of tall latecomers fighting their way into the middle of the crowd regardless of who's behind me. When accompanied by someone short, I have been known to poor beer down the backs of those who come in very late and stand in front without paying any attention. Which makes me as much of an asshole as them.

The situation was best handled at a Kathryn Williams show in a small stand-up venue, circa 2001, where the chatter had reached critical mass by the third song. (The same crowd had already talked right over the support slot from Turin Brakes.) The venue was jam-packed, and KW's self-admitted fear of crowds in enclosed spaces was kicking in. Between songs, a young guy in front of me motioned to KW that he wanted a word, so she asked him up on stage.

"I've got a request. Can everyone who's here to catch up with their mates over a drink please FUCK OFF DOWNSTAIRS so the rest of us can watch the show?"

Sustained applause. Total silence for the rest of the gig.

I am v tall and try to be aware of getting in the way of shorter people, but it's often quite difficult to find anywhere to stand that isn't in someone's way. If I'm at somewhere like the Forum or Shepherd's Bush Empire I'll just stand in front of the mixing desk so there's no-one behind me.

Or I find some other tall bastard and stand behind him cos there's usually space there cos no-one else can see. But that can lead to a huge clump of lanky gits which probably just makes it worse.

But if I am there it is because I am watching the show not talking to people so pls don't hate me.

Lanky gits do tend to clump, 'tis true...

Sorry Colonel, I don't really hate the tall people. 99% of you are fine, just the ones who stand in front - I mean exactly in front like they deliberately lined up elbows, this is what makes it really odd how often it happens - of the smallest person for several metres even when there's plenty of other space, and then don't even seem interested.

I (used to) go to a lot of gigs more or less out of curiosity, so if I'm there just to see what's what and someone who likes the band wants to stand in front of me, no problem there. Though I tend to lurk near the back unless I like what I'm hearing or am really excited to see them. Actually there's often a spot at the very back where the shallower angle lets you see one or two band members between the heads, which is more than we shortarses get from most of the crowd.

I go to tons of shows and it drives me nuts when everyone seems to be talking during the bands, but refreshingly I don't seem to see it super often -- maybe it's the shows I go to (either so small that there's not enough of the audience to out-chatter the band, or so big that the band drowns out anyone who is talking). I'd say what Jordan did was avoidable but I kinda applaud him for doing it, I totally fantasize about doing that kind of thing but never do. closest I got was at a movie once when a guy would not stop talking next to me, and I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP' and amazingly he did for the rest of the movie, which was such a great moment.

If you are in an assigned seat and can not move, then yeah, tell them to stfu.

If you can move, then move. always easiest first best choice.

I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP'

heh. I did this too, at a seated GYBE gig. the exact same words, the exact same effect.

I genuinely intended to be polite to the endlessly chattering gimps next to me, but all my pent-up rage just fell out of my face.

The first time Brian Wilson did Pet Sounds in London - the OPENING FUCKING NIGHT, his first involved gig here since before the old queen died and all - there were two fellas a couple of rows bag talking at normal conversational volume throughout. Finally leapt out of my seat and pleaded with them to let the music talk. One of them told me he'd been waiting 40 years for this night and I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.
WTF do you say to people like that, who know they're ruining it for others but completely don't give any sort of a fuck?

killing's too good for 'em...

Typical Londoners. You wouldn't get that anywhere else in the UK.

Hard to know how much of an asshole one will be. I loathe bullying, so the staring-down bs just makes me want to goad them into action. The key is for them to swing, and you not be embarrassed to dodge or back off, so that it's obvious to security that those people need to be kicked out, and you get to stay. I've only accomplished that twice in 25 yrs of shows. Usually they'll back off. Another tactic is to push past them and say you figured they wouldn't mind since they don't seem into the show, ha ha. My best experiences are showing up early and staying right up front. If I come late, I hang in the back, since I'm 6'1"+. Also, it's helped that bands I've seen lately are way too loud to even attempt to talk over.

I have heard people complain that they went to a gig where the band was so loud that they couldn't even have a decent conversation...

i prefer talking to people over going to concerts but its pretty lame that these people are paying $15 to talk in a loud bar

Stevie ... they were Glaswegians who'd come down to London for the opening night.

last gig I went to (and I don't get to many these days) featured someone shouting I LOVE THIS SONG! repeatedly throughout about three quarters of the songs. AAAAAAAH.

Ah, right. Good job you didn't try and fight them, then. Although, my name's not Stevie. xp

Sorry anagram. Misread which post I was replying to.

I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.

This level of selfish asshattery just boggles my brain. What a frightful human being.

At most other events (theatre, cinema, etc), you'd be able to get an attendant to give them them "you're spoiling it for other patrons" warning, but when faced with that kind of gibbering selfishness I doubt even that would work.

The biggest problem for me is that the talking itself is super distracting, then yr own irritation adds to this, THEN one's indignance and rage takes over with a final result that you're completely removed from the moment of enjoying the music, and it can take an age to get back into that mindset EVEN IF the yapping fuckwit does shut up when asked to. Which they rarely do, ime.

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

There was a pretty classic discussion about this here several years ago, btw, but no phrases I'm putting into the search engine ("Talking At Live Shows," etc.) are turning anything up. Maybe it was just part of a bigger thread, I'm not sure, but somebody else can find it. Definitely also delved into the phenomenon of tall people standing in front of short people at shows, fwiw.

Tall people look over the heads in a crowd and go "Oh look there's a hole in the crowd, nobody there!"

So they go into the spot, and see it's populated by shorter people.

And then go "oh. Oh well, it's better than over there" and STAY!

The guy in front of you who insists on taking camera phone photos the whole time is just as annoying. I once had to watch an Animal Collective show through the camera of the jerk in front of me because it was packed and I couldn't move.

Also annoying to stand near: the freaky dancer.

Damn hippies.

Dealt with to some extent on this thread (but apparently there was an earlier one that talked about it more, because I mention it here too):

people who doesnt like to go to shows , although they love music, and live in a place where it's available - c/d?

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

I actually really enjoy between song heckling, especially if it's at all witty. Though maybe this girl was just more obnoxious than anything. But if I could be disappointed in Neko case and her fans, if that were at all possible, I might be after reading this.

I hope I never attend a show with you Master Jim. Between song heckling is almost never "witty".

And even if it is, you have to choose your marks. For one thing, you don't do it after every song. For another, Neko Case?

kinda disagree

"you don't rock" and "play the hit" were two of my favorites

when i go to a lot of shows i start to see a lot of the same people, 'specially if it's a trendy act in a small venue. i have sympathy for the idea of concerts as just an extension of your social life. but you should be nowhere near the front and respectful of listeners and if you're a ligger talking loudly i'm not sure i'd step in to save you if it led to your being beaten viciously.

I'm not saying it can't be witty, but nine times out of ten the heckler thinks he or she is 1,000,000 times more witty than they actually are.

Pretty glad I didn't go to the Girls show at teh Blue Note last night tbh

Though I would have liked to see Smith Westerns

One of my favourites concerns Bono on stage at a famine relief concert, whether true or not I don't know nor care.
There he is standing centre stage between songs and he starts clicking his fingers every 3 seconds and he starts his sermon:
"Everytime I click my fingers someone in Africa will die of starvation". He continues to slowly click his fingers to the silent crowd.
Cue heckler:"Well stop clicking your bloody fingers then!"

hahaha

xxp

there was no one there & everyone looked to be 18-20

smith westerns were really rad

I figured, with the weather and all. If I was going anywhere it would have been to the DIY show on Orr street to see my friends. The fact that no one was there and they were being really loud makes it worse. The Blue Note is so depressing when it is empty.

Pretty used to being surrounded by 18-20 year olds.

http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bono.asp

whether true or not I don't know nor care

some hilarious shit in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehIXgbxX6vk

Isn't that mostly a bunch of blokes jogging round in a circle together?

so the thing about moshing is there seem to be two schools of thought, based on fellow moshers I've talked to, and me not being around when it developed, idk if one is more right than the other:

1) my lifer metalhead friend, who had his girlfriend stolen by Trey from Morbid Angel, claims contact with other moshers isn't the point, that it is supposed to be running in a circle only and collisions are accidental, and says if you wanna do the other thing, you just slam dance and fuck the circle.

2) everyone else I know feels yes, you run in a circle, but you are intentionally supposed to push/bang into other people gently as part of the running, but organically, not like, abandoning the circle to beeline for some person across from you

quite frankly I'm usually tuckered out after running in a circle once though

frankly most pits I've been in have people following both rules so I just throw on some Lidocaine and pray for the best

I was there for the evolution of "pile of limbs" thrash pits into the circle thing, I distinctly remember the first circle pit I saw (Husker Du & Zero Boys, summer 1986) and I was like wtf. generally I see behavior #1 these days.

My experience in the late 80s and early 90s was that the bulk of the audience at shows would be tightly packed together and pushing and shoving each other in time with the music, but it wasn't violent, it was just sort of swaying as one. Then there would be circles that would open up, sort of the way kids gather and form a circle around a fight in the schoolyard, and within that circle people would run out and do little dances, kicking and punching at the air. Sometimes two of them would run into each other and shove each other away, or grab each other's wrists and swing around in a circle, eventually breaking free and flying backward into the ring of people surrounding the open area.

The only time I saw the "everybody run in a circle" thing was at specific moments in a show when the band would call for it; Fishbone had one particular song, "Subliminal Fascism," where they wanted everybody to do that.

When shows allowed stage diving, the open circles would close up so people could catch divers. Nobody wants to see someone come flying out and splat on the floor.

unless it's the Nuge

of course, there are also circle punchers, who are little cowardly shits who sit at the edge of the pit and punch people in the stomach opportunistically, as they run by...only to scamper away giggling afterward.

i thought it was just one asshole shithead troll at a festival I was at, when it happened to me again in another state by a completely different person within the same year. fortunately they usually hit the one guy who makes them regret it afterward.

Well this is all weird and fascinating.

Isn't that mostly a bunch of blokes jogging round in a circle together?

otm. I can imagine it being fun once or twice but strange that apparently it's now a thing everyone does.

My experience in the late 80s and early 90s was that the bulk of the audience at shows would be tightly packed together and pushing and shoving each other in time with the music, but it wasn't violent, it was just sort of swaying as one. Then there would be circles that would open up, sort of the way kids gather and form a circle around a fight in the schoolyard, and within that circle people would run out and do little dances, kicking and punching at the air. Sometimes two of them would run into each other and shove each other away, or grab each other's wrists and swing around in a circle, eventually breaking free and flying backward into the ring of people surrounding the open area.

same except i was a girl and would have always preferred not to be nonconsensually pressed against a stranger, pushed, groped, etc. when i finally started going to shows with a little more space, it was SO much better. nowadays i feel empowered to ask people to back off/not touch me.

moshing is no joke but stage diving/crowd surfing is kind of a goofy corny thing to juxtapose with heavy music, it adds a sort of ska punk flavor to the proceedings

very clearly remember having a much-anticipated Sugar show almost ruined for me by the guy standing behind me

it's all goofy and corny til someone violates your bodily autonomy
those days were terrible (note: i have never crowd surfed nor would i have considered it bc i knew what might happen and dnw to b lifted by groping strangers' hands)

Dutch band De Staat made this video a few years ago, and the idea bled into their live shows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ttGgIQpAUc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilQp_WcCFmU

xp yeah, as I reflect now my goofy/corny impression is almost completely due to seeing aerial shots of the idiots on MTV. The few times I’ve experienced it irl were not goofy at all

the “jogging in a circle” thing seemed to be a uniquely American phenomenon, my limited experience of Australian 90’s mosh pits was more just chaotic jumping up and down

and yeah LL otm re being a girl - in general being anywhere close to any of “the action” in those packed spaces almost inevitably ended up as a deeply unpleasant experience, lots of weird grabby hands in places you don’t want ugh

just here to say crowd surfing is cringe. no exceptions.

the crowd was fucking annoying as shit though, I seem to have stood right in the area of a bunch of entitled babies. Like when I came in, some guy actually grabbed my arm and moved me out of the way because I guess I blocked his view. I almost punched him. Later, near the end of the show, when I cautiously took out my camera to take a quick video, some lady grabbed me and said "I can't see a fucking thing if your phone is there" Ok yeah, that's been happening to me all night. She also grabbed my son when he walked by her and said "oh no girl, uh uh" because he briefly blocked her line of sight for four seconds. wtf is wrong with everyone.

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Sunday, March 31, 2024 1:35 PM (five months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Pulled this from the Sleater-Kinney thread...I don't go to shows nearly as much as I used to but when I do go I often encounter behavior like this, I saw X over the summer and this giant dude shoved me out of his way before the show even started. He gestured toward the front close to the stage and said "I was up there earlier", I was already a little salty due to the airport bar drink prices at this place and I told him "I don't fucking care", which must have surprised him luckily, since he just went on his way and didn't reduce me to a dark stain on the floor which he probably could have done without any issue.

But so...I feel like I am experiencing it a lot more now then I ever did before, am I just getting old (obviously) & grouchy or are crowds getting worse?

i mean there have always been assholes obviously. but i wonder if rising ticket prices have something to do with it. like if you're paying $80-$100 to see sleater-kinney maybe you feel more stressed out about having a good experience and/or more entitled then you would when you were paying $15 to see them in a club 20 years ago

If someone is at a standing venue and goes for piss before the show, it's OK to move into 'their' spot isn't it? Perhaps asking the bleedin' obvious

I mean that's always been my assumption

And yeah xpost I am assuming ticket prices have something to do with it

I also forgot bout the shoe guy at Dweezil Zappa last month, I think he was an outlier though

I think $80-$100 ticket prices bring an audience that goes out to fewer shows in general, and therefore maybe will have unrealistic expectations about how crowds work at general-admission rock shows versus folks who are seeing $15 shows at clubs on a more regular basis

Yes the above is correct, get a lot of it at boomer audience shows at Hyde park - people set up chairs and picnic blankets and get very aggro when unsurprisingly 50,000 other people turn up and may want to stand close to it or in their way. People that don't leave the house often unable to adjust to accommodating to other people's needs.

I think we’re letting people off too lightly. I’m a homebody, I go to shows maybe a handful of times a year if that, but I know how it works: If you leave your spot, it’s free to take unless it’s obvious they’re with friends. If your view’s obscured by someone in front of you, that’s on you (I reserve the right to feel aggrieved at being a shorter person behind taller people, but I keep that to myself).

COVID made people forget how to act in public. it eroded the concept of a 'public' almost, in the sense that it kind of got rid of society for awhile and made people more insular and selfish.

there is also essentially an entire generation who went through their teens and/or early adulthood during the pandemic and aren't equipped to act normal or peaceable because they never got a chance to learn during that time you absorb these basic norms

Three of us at a gig tonight, and shortly before show time a tall person comes through and stands in front of us. My mate very politely asks if he could let us stand in front of him, he turns out to be an excellent person and we all buddy up for the rest of the gig. Yay humanity, there is hope.

(Mdou Moctar at Leeds Brudenell BTW. Just fucking phenomenal.)

I’m a 6ft tall person who sometimes hears people huffing & puffing behind me at gigs. Which on the one hand, i get it and I try not to stand right in front of people who are way shorter than me, but on the other hand I’ve gotta stand somewhere. With that in mind, I would be so happy if someone tapped me on the shoulder and said that instead of loudly going “oh of COURSE, it ALWAYS happens to me, can you BELIEVE this guy??” Good for your friend.

6’1”. I try to stand in front of a pillar/column/wall whenever I can

Not because of shorties, but because I feel anxious if I don’t have my back to a wall for some reason.

6'2" and yeah, I stay in the back. Even at jazz shows where everyone's sitting at tables, I take a table in the back of the room.

tall as well and would usually just hug the back/perimeter. i always felt my fandom for the band i was seeing was not as big as the rest of the crowd so i was always happy to give them that space. a few years back i saw nick cave playing an outdoor venue by a castle and it was much more enjoyable soaking in the entire scene perched on a hill than the fanatics wanting to get their hand touched by their wannabe-jesus.

there is also essentially an entire generation who went through their teens and/or early adulthood during the pandemic and aren't equipped to act normal or peaceable because they never got a chance to learn during that time you absorb these basic norms

mmm, I dunno, I generally see extreme politeness and accommodation from that age range.

yeah, i'm going to bet that young adult covid gen is going to be the most courteous concert attendees going forward.

COVID made people forget how to act in public.

100% believe this to be true not based on shows but on train etiquette. I've called people out at least 3 times this year for not stepping off the train to allow people to get off/board the train. I think being at home really screwed with, among other things, people's spatial awareness.

I'm 5'10" + in most shoes and I know that's not that tall but I've been tutted at before. It's not my fault people are short! I'll move if there's an obvious space but otherwise I don't really think about it too much.

If someone asked me to switch places with them of course I would.

At the airport right now and though this is a different context and energy, some of that “how to be in public” stuff applies here too. A lot of people never got the memo explaining that if you’re going to do a video chat with family, headphones are a considerate thing to wear.

Mike T-Diva, thank you for that anecdote.

pretty much the main reason i have headphones on 99% of the time when i'm in public (especially public transport) is to be able to block out dummies who aren't using them / can't regulate their conversation volume