Why is everyone not going totally bonkers about the junior boys?

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been listening to a cdr of the two JBeez EPs & The World of Arthur Russell in tandem; some haunted synchronicity going on . . .

(haha when will more material be available? & what's this about Manitoba remixing "Birthday"?)

― etc, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

what some people call "haunted synchronicity" others would call "rip-off."

― Phoebe Dinsmore, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)

are you seriously simplifying both artists, their backgrounds and the context to suggest JBs are derivative of arthur russell. if anything's tired and derivative, it's your posturing. i mean, jeez...

― nebbesh (nebbesh), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

ah, here we go again, express an opinion contrary to the sheep and they "baa" idiotically.

get this straight, the junior boys are not the second coming, they are not god's gift to music (they are not even god's gift the grime mc come to that), they are NOT THAT GREAT.

also arthur russell was and is a genius, i've heard calling out of context, so unless you have as well, then either put up or shut up.

― Phoebe Dinsmore, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha Phoebe but presumably Junior Boys haven't heard the mysterious Calling Out of Context (or hadn't two years ago when these songs were made) so it's a bit harsh to say rip-off. Plus it ignores all the other sources Junior Boys "rip-off" (Timbaland, 2-step, Gary Numan etc. etc. ad nauseum). "Ripping off" implies intentionality or awareness, and a certain stylistic myopia to boot. I doubt the first applies here and I'm certain the second doesn't.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:00 (twenty-two years ago)

well yeah, we've all heard arthur russell with. it's your pompous statement that irks. it's not about junior boys being the second coming, it's about how you can beach up and compare the two without any explanation. where's the link between the two, i don't see it?

you never explain yrself, yr just some tired old patrician.

― nebbesh (nebbesh), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Nick Luscombe played the Junior Boys (High Come Down i think) on XFM's 'Flow-motion' on Sunday night - show opener even, good stuff

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:04 (twenty-two years ago)

(xpost)

i don't need to explain myself, other people pay me to do that, and i'd rather be a tired old patrician than a futureless pleb like you, so don't try it.

― Phoebe Dinsmore, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm paid to be polite to people but I don't see why I shouldn't do it for free otherwise.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:14 (twenty-two years ago)

OH LORD "DON'T TRY IT" IS BECOMING A MEME.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yuck - you get paid to write vacuous 100-word reviews for uncut for untutored futureless plebs like me. the only thing i was trying was to get some sense from you. i thought here would be a forum for you to actually say something worth saying, something insightful.

― nebbesh (nebbesh), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:19 (twenty-two years ago)

what a load of tosh. junior senior sound nothing like arthur russell.

― searchanddelete, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:21 (twenty-two years ago)

it's a shame the legacy of mister russell has become the province of such tedious breeders.

― how can you not hear the junior senior?, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:25 (twenty-two years ago)

arthur russell sounds nothing like the breeders.

― Phoebe Dinsmore, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

"(Timbaland, 2-step, Gary Numan etc. etc. ad nauseum). "Ripping off" implies intentionality or awareness, and a certain stylistic myopia to boot"

russell nah, myopia meh, and i wouldnt go so far as ripping off but Junior Boys Influences TM like the above have been part of the propaganda since day dot, they've said as much themselves; these things don't leap out at me tho certainly not the way everyone in the world has said the same verbatim and i feel suspicious towards what sometimes looks a v artful game of flirty blogverse flattery. not that i've spent forever digesting the junior boys sound but c'mon really?

― prima fassy (bob), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

(i suppose some of my reservations already sound inherent in tim's quote already but i'm not sure)

― prima fassy (bob), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

tim you should get way more paid than you are!

― jeremy jordan (cruisy), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 14:36 (twenty-two years ago)

the band the junior boys remind me of most is ar kane circa i, minus the leftover shoegaze baggage.

the second ep isn't all that, except for "high come down" which is fucking aces (but, like, two years old now.) manitoba needs to fuck back off to indie rockdom, like, yesterday.

according to nick (and jeremy) the album is being mastered as we speak. (hee hee i heard an album track and yooooou didn't.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

p.s. anyone who listens to the junior boys and hears nothing in their sound between 1986---->now isn't listening with their ears.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

high come down - reminds me of Scritti Politti

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

well i wouldnt go that far...

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i would, they remind me of scritti a lot... "so put up or shut up", harvell...

<< / my word is law >

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

They still remind me of a sensitive indie band who have actually been paying attention to and absorbing electronic music trends since 1986 as opposed to just buying a synthesiser cos its more feminine. This is pretty much what I used to publically wish for all the time so it irks me a little that I only like and not love them.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

coz i've heard cupid & psyche 85

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:47 (twenty-two years ago)

They remind me of Telefon Tel Aviv + the assorted goth pop influences, and TTA remind of, um, Timbaland + pretty pretty melodies.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't listen to the vocal melody of 'Birthday' without thinking of 'Making Plans for Nigel'. :(

I too am a bit lukewarm.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

grrr that nigel thing may well come to bother me nipper. i hadn't noticed it before, but now...

― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

the band the junior boys remind me of most is ar kane circa i, minus the leftover shoegaze baggage.

I must hear this band.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I must take phoebe's advice and listen to some arthur russell...

hey john

― jeremyg, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

and also must take this oppertunity to big up jess harvell....who is simultaneously my greatest ally and greatest detractor...i love u j

ok...now pretend i wasn't ever here

― jeremyg, Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:48 (twenty-two years ago)

You seem a good sort! I'll listen in when I can. Russell is cool stuff indeed.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 19:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's face it Marcello wants to have a go at Nick, usual controlled explosions isn't it? Still wondering why the female alias, it really is creepy!

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"(i suppose some of my reservations already sound inherent in tim's quote already but i'm not sure)"

Prima are your reservations about the transparency of Junior Boys' influences or that people talk about said influences too much?

I think both are a result of - as Tom alluded to - a lot of people wanting exactly this sort of band to come into existence for a long time and either being underwhelmed or predictably overwhelmed now that it has happened. It's too tempting to look at Junior Boys and see the stylistic equation (and either be over-excited or suspicious of that) rather than the group themselves. ie. it's almost too fitting that K-Punk is their biggest cheerleader because they're like the total (mathematical) solution to his problems with the current pop landscape. The tendency is understandable but it can get in the way of whether the music is actually really good or not (I think it is).

Phoebe is unintentionally playing the same game by bringing up Arthur Russell ("my reference points for this group are more obscure and seminal than yours!" basically). I hope it doesn't stifle the group's progress with self-consciousness (Jeremy stop reading this thread now!!)

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 27 January 2004 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, alternately one could read the thread and be quietly amused/bemused.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

ronan i think she's something to do with 'singin' in the rain'

― tom west (thomp), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

right right i would agree with all that. when u say transparency of influences, i mean sometimes it seems deliberately so, fostered by gabba and hyperdub and junior boys themselves. calculated. i dont want to go overboard tho, and nor am i saying that these influences arent necessarily worthy or that ppl have all been chumped by the great conspiracy but i dunno...

― prima fassy (bob), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Prima all the main JB tracks were floating around long before gabba's involvement. I can't speak for Mark K-Punk (who I think wrote the original hyperdub article). One of the guys (Jeremy) in the band used to write for CCRU though so you could trace a development of stylistic ideas from there.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

haha i did already

"he talks very happily about cultural viruses and very interestingly up to a point but he doesn't think that he himself is a viral contagion; he still thinks that he is the scientist"
-- sadie plant on richard dworkins

― prima fassy (bob), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 01:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Making Plans with Nigel!!!!!

so right and yet so upsetting!

― jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

what is making plans for nigel?

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I must hear this band.

And now I am. Hey, very spiffy! Jess's lurv for them is well justified in my eyes. :-) Yay big empty spaces blocked off by beats and things.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 30 January 2004 02:59 (twenty-two years ago)

haha zemko why do you deny yr eshun heritage

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 30 January 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

yes big empty spaces are good.

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 30 January 2004 03:06 (twenty-two years ago)

'i'm in a wide open spaaaace...'

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 30 January 2004 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually much as I like the singing so far -- and it's not really suggestive specifically of Arthur Russell I find, there's a quality distinguishing it and making it different I'm trying to pin down here -- the arrangement that's captured my ears most effectively is "Unbirthday," lack of vocals and all. Something to do with the use of static (which definitely ain't 1986).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 30 January 2004 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

'i'm in a wide open spaaaace...'

that's Coloma not the JB'z

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 30 January 2004 03:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone else heard their Kylie cover?

― stopsss, Monday, 9 February 2004 17:06 (twenty-two years ago)

how'd you know about that? it's true... there is a 'Kylie' cover, only it's not quite finished yet.

― nick.K (nick.K), Monday, 9 February 2004 17:11 (twenty-two years ago)

what track?

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 9 February 2004 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

'Slow'

― nick.K (nick.K), Monday, 9 February 2004 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

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